News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

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Modbury_Man
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#901 Post by Modbury_Man » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:52 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:21 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:03 pm
Some areas lose their public transport completely.

I am also unhappy with the loss of most of the night buses... I have used them often in the past, even though I had to walk an extra 15 minutes to get home from the nearest route. Now it will be more like an extra 30 minute walk. Or, pay the price for an Uber or Taxi.
What parts of Adelaide will lose public transport all together?

And how many night buses have been axed? I was not looking that carefully at that, I saw a few of them had new numbers matching the daytime number.
I know some areas that have lost a bus completely include the town of McLaren Flat (route 752) and the far end of Athelstone (route 579). Also Oakden on Sir Ross Smith Bvd (route 208) and Henley Beach South (H32). Also Cavan and Dry Creek due to routes 225 and 238 being cancelled.

You can download a New Network map from the AdMet sites and it does show some gaps in areas.

Only After Midnight buses now are to Elizabeth, TTP and Seaford.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#902 Post by PeFe » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:02 pm

Modbury_Man wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:52 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:21 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:03 pm
Some areas lose their public transport completely.

I am also unhappy with the loss of most of the night buses... I have used them often in the past, even though I had to walk an extra 15 minutes to get home from the nearest route. Now it will be more like an extra 30 minute walk. Or, pay the price for an Uber or Taxi.
What parts of Adelaide will lose public transport all together?

And how many night buses have been axed? I was not looking that carefully at that, I saw a few of them had new numbers matching the daytime number.
I know some areas that have lost a bus completely include the town of McLaren Flat (route 752) and the far end of Athelstone (route 579). Also Oakden on Sir Ross Smith Bvd (route 208) and Henley Beach South (H32). Also Cavan and Dry Creek due to routes 225 and 238 being cancelled.

You can download a New Network map from the AdMet sites and it does show some gaps in areas.

Only After Midnight buses now are to Elizabeth, TTP and Seaford.
Oakden and Henley Beach Sth people can walk to a bus. Dont know enough about Athelstone but hopefully there is a bus within walking distance.
I am not surprised McClaren Flat lost its bus service......I believe patronage would have been extremely low.
Cavan and Dry Creek still have a train station or Geopps Cross bus withing walking distance.

I am disappointed by the curtailing of the Night buses. I believed at one stage SGIC Insurance was "sponsoring" the night buses....obviously that is not the fact now.
Given the future densification of certain Adelaide corridors I would like to see a City-Gleneg-Brighton-Marion night bus reinstated and also a night bus Port Adelaide way.

I used the N202 on 3 or 4 occasions, each time there 10-15 passengers. not huge numbers but enough I thought to justify the service.
As well as public transport the night buses also are a carott not to drink drive.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#903 Post by Norman » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:19 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:21 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:03 pm
Some areas lose their public transport completely.

I am also unhappy with the loss of most of the night buses... I have used them often in the past, even though I had to walk an extra 15 minutes to get home from the nearest route. Now it will be more like an extra 30 minute walk. Or, pay the price for an Uber or Taxi.
What parts of Adelaide will lose public transport all together?

And how many night buses have been axed? I was not looking that carefully at that, I saw a few of them had new numbers matching the daytime number.
In terms of night buses, only the N40 (City to Elizabeth), N1 (City to Tea Tree Plaza via O-Bahn), N72 (City to Noarlunga/Seaford) and N82 (City to Mount Barker) remain.

In terms of areas losing Public Transport, it's being lost in Oakden, St Marys, Warradale, Wattle Park and Auldana, and West Beach and Glenelg North have to reply on a peak-only service to get to the city or transfer in Glenelg.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#904 Post by PeFe » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm

Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:19 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:21 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:03 pm
Some areas lose their public transport completely.

I am also unhappy with the loss of most of the night buses... I have used them often in the past, even though I had to walk an extra 15 minutes to get home from the nearest route. Now it will be more like an extra 30 minute walk. Or, pay the price for an Uber or Taxi.
What parts of Adelaide will lose public transport all together?

And how many night buses have been axed? I was not looking that carefully at that, I saw a few of them had new numbers matching the daytime number.
In terms of night buses, only the N40 (City to Elizabeth), N1 (City to Tea Tree Plaza via O-Bahn), N72 (City to Noarlunga/Seaford) and N82 (City to Mount Barker) remain.

In terms of areas losing Public Transport, it's being lost in Oakden, St Marys, Warradale, Wattle Park and Auldana, and West Beach and Glenelg North have to reply on a peak-only service to get to the city or transfer in Glenelg.
Auldana is literally next to the new 19 and 17 routes.
Wattle Park is a 10 minute walk to 20 or 19.

Yes Glenelg Nth and West Beach are under-serviced. I would like to see 30 minute daytime/ 60 minute night time service that runs Glenelg-Gleneg Nth-West Beach-Airport connector bus, timetabled to be a connect with the Airport-City bus. Also the southern streets of Henley Beach Sth would be closer to the Sir Donald Bradman Drive bus rather than Henley Beach Road.

Edit : I just realised that the 300 will service Glenelg-Glenelg Nth-West Beach day and night....I dont see the 300 being a success after 6pm. Adelaide people would be really reluctant to take a windy cross suburban service at night.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#905 Post by gnrc_louis » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:18 pm

The loss of some of the Saturday after midnight services is a real shame. I used to catch the N30 fairly regularly, and it would save me about $25 for a taxi or an Uber. I don't go out so much anymore, but for a lot of younger people with less money, this service was a great way to have a cheaper night out.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#906 Post by NTRabbit » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:32 pm

Spotto wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:12 pm
I can only speak for the Aberfoyle and Blackwood areas for local buses but all of the routes in this area are near identical to the current network. The new Aberfoyle-Flinders-Marion 330 is identical to the current 320; the G22X express from Aberfoyle is now the X331 and terminates at Flinders for a bus-train transfer instead of continuing to the city via Goody Road (less conjestion, faster train journey); and the new Aberfoyle-Blackwood-Marion 332/333 are identical to the current 600/601 except it no longer continues from Aberfoyle to Reynella.

Differences are the 332/333 won't detour from Shepherds Hill Road to stop at the Resthaven retirement home like the 601 did, surely that's a bit of a kick in the gut to any independent and still-mobile residents that live there. There's also no more buses that will run the western half of Manning Road (previously the G20).

For the Free City Connector I think it's weird that it no longer runs via Jerningham Street, it delivered people right into the centre of the Melbourne Street precinct, the new section would probably only save about a minute or two travel time at most so not sure what the gain is meant to be. The Wellington-Light-Victoria Square section has also been completely removed for some reason.
This only works if the trains are going to leave Flinders station every 10 minutes between 6:30 and 8:30am, and vice versa in the afternoon, otherwise it's an absolute reduction in service and increases the amount of time it takes me to get to work. Not sure what traffic you're talking about on Goodwood, because the G22X in particular breezes down there into the city, and the same on the return home. The only time I've been on a G20/21/22X that was slowed down in any way by traffic was at absolute peak afternoon time when they had Ayliffes Rd and South Rd up to Sturt down to a single lane because of construction.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#907 Post by adelaide transport » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:43 pm

NTRabbit wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:32 pm
Spotto wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:12 pm
I can only speak for the Aberfoyle and Blackwood areas for local buses but all of the routes in this area are near identical to the current network. The new Aberfoyle-Flinders-Marion 330 is identical to the current 320; the G22X express from Aberfoyle is now the X331 and terminates at Flinders for a bus-train transfer instead of continuing to the city via Goody Road (less conjestion, faster train journey); and the new Aberfoyle-Blackwood-Marion 332/333 are identical to the current 600/601 except it no longer continues from Aberfoyle to Reynella.

Differences are the 332/333 won't detour from Shepherds Hill Road to stop at the Resthaven retirement home like the 601 did, surely that's a bit of a kick in the gut to any independent and still-mobile residents that live there. There's also no more buses that will run the western half of Manning Road (previously the G20).

For the Free City Connector I think it's weird that it no longer runs via Jerningham Street, it delivered people right into the centre of the Melbourne Street precinct, the new section would probably only save about a minute or two travel time at most so not sure what the gain is meant to be. The Wellington-Light-Victoria Square section has also been completely removed for some reason.
This only works if the trains are going to leave Flinders station every 10 minutes between 6:30 and 8:30am, and vice versa in the afternoon, otherwise it's an absolute reduction in service and increases the amount of time it takes me to get to work. Not sure what traffic you're talking about on Goodwood, because the G22X in particular breezes down there into the city, and the same on the return home. The only time I've been on a G20/21/22X that was slowed down in any way by traffic was at absolute peak afternoon time when they had Ayliffes Rd and South Rd up to Sturt down to a single lane because of construction.
The 330 and X331(peak) will terminate at Flinders Medical Centre. Passengers will have a bit of a walk to the station(trains will operate to a 15 minute frequency in peak periods and 30 minutes in off-peak) to catch the all stops train to the Railway Station on North Terrace. previously the G20/G21/G22X stopped in Victoria Square and King William Street. My calculation is that all up the journey would take a passenger 30 minutes longer.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#908 Post by Spotto » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:30 pm

NTRabbit wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:32 pm
Spotto wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:12 pm
I can only speak for the Aberfoyle and Blackwood areas for local buses but all of the routes in this area are near identical to the current network. The new Aberfoyle-Flinders-Marion 330 is identical to the current 320; the G22X express from Aberfoyle is now the X331 and terminates at Flinders for a bus-train transfer instead of continuing to the city via Goody Road (less conjestion, faster train journey); and the new Aberfoyle-Blackwood-Marion 332/333 are identical to the current 600/601 except it no longer continues from Aberfoyle to Reynella.
This only works if the trains are going to leave Flinders station every 10 minutes between 6:30 and 8:30am, and vice versa in the afternoon, otherwise it's an absolute reduction in service and increases the amount of time it takes me to get to work. Not sure what traffic you're talking about on Goodwood, because the G22X in particular breezes down there into the city, and the same on the return home. The only time I've been on a G20/21/22X that was slowed down in any way by traffic was at absolute peak afternoon time when they had Ayliffes Rd and South Rd up to Sturt down to a single lane because of construction.
The G22X might be a quick journey but it's a peak-only express, the normal G20 and G21 takes between 30-45 minutes for the part between Flinders and the route end at King William Road. The timetable for the peak-only G22X still lists Flinders to King William as around 30 minutes. Compare that to the train between the same locations which is around 20 minutes. If the G22X is a light breeze then the train is a strong wind.

The main benefits of rerouting certain buses to bus-train transfers are (1) Cutting down on bus conjestion inside the CBD; if every citybound bus from all the suburbs go right into the CBD the conjestion it causes hurts the buses; and (2) Instead of running all the way into town, that same bus drops off its passengers at the train and is then redeployed back onto local routes; and (3) The train is faster than the bus. Buses have to stop for traffic lights, slow traffic, car accidents, etc. and the number of stops for boardings can vary. Trains have set stations, can accelerate and run much faster, and have right-of-way along their whole route.

Of course these principles will vary depending on which part of Adelaide you are in, and whether bus-train transfers are feasible (if not the bus just continues into the CBD as normal). But for Aberfoyle-to-City journeys it's good news.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#909 Post by NTRabbit » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:11 pm

Spotto wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:30 pm
The G22X might be a quick journey but it's a peak-only express, the normal G20 and G21 takes between 30-45 minutes for the part between Flinders and the route end at King William Road. The timetable for the peak-only G22X still lists Flinders to King William as around 30 minutes. Compare that to the train between the same locations which is around 20 minutes. If the G22X is a light breeze then the train is a strong wind.

The main benefits of rerouting certain buses to bus-train transfers are (1) Cutting down on bus conjestion inside the CBD; if every citybound bus from all the suburbs go right into the CBD the conjestion it causes hurts the buses; and (2) Instead of running all the way into town, that same bus drops off its passengers at the train and is then redeployed back onto local routes; and (3) The train is faster than the bus. Buses have to stop for traffic lights, slow traffic, car accidents, etc. and the number of stops for boardings can vary. Trains have set stations, can accelerate and run much faster, and have right-of-way along their whole route.

Of course these principles will vary depending on which part of Adelaide you are in, and whether bus-train transfers are feasible (if not the bus just continues into the CBD as normal). But for Aberfoyle-to-City journeys it's good news.
It takes 15 minutes for an all stops train to go from Clarence Park to Adelaide, a thing I know from frequent personal experience, there's no way in the world an all stops train from Flinders, with 6 additional stops, is going to be less than 30 minutes.
adelaide transport wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:43 pm
The 330 and X331(peak) will terminate at Flinders Medical Centre. Passengers will have a bit of a walk to the station(trains will operate to a 15 minute frequency in peak periods and 30 minutes in off-peak) to catch the all stops train to the Railway Station on North Terrace. previously the G20/G21/G22X stopped in Victoria Square and King William Street. My calculation is that all up the journey would take a passenger 30 minutes longer.
Taking a bus trip that is 50% longer than driving yourself, and replacing it with a bus, walk, and train trip that is twice as long as driving yourself, is not going to increase passenger numbers.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#910 Post by PeFe » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Adelaide Metro timetables say it is 10 minutes from Adelaide Railway Station to Clarence Park.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#911 Post by adelaide transport » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:59 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:19 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:21 pm


What parts of Adelaide will lose public transport all together?

And how many night buses have been axed? I was not looking that carefully at that, I saw a few of them had new numbers matching the daytime number.
In terms of night buses, only the N40 (City to Elizabeth), N1 (City to Tea Tree Plaza via O-Bahn), N72 (City to Noarlunga/Seaford) and N82 (City to Mount Barker) remain.

In terms of areas losing Public Transport, it's being lost in Oakden, St Marys, Warradale, Wattle Park and Auldana, and West Beach and Glenelg North have to reply on a peak-only service to get to the city or transfer in Glenelg.
Auldana is literally next to the new 19 and 17 routes.
Wattle Park is a 10 minute walk to 20 or 19.

Yes Glenelg Nth and West Beach are under-serviced. I would like to see 30 minute daytime/ 60 minute night time service that runs Glenelg-Gleneg Nth-West Beach-Airport connector bus, timetabled to be a connect with the Airport-City bus. Also the southern streets of Henley Beach Sth would be closer to the Sir Donald Bradman Drive bus rather than Henley Beach Road.

Edit : I just realised that the 300 will service Glenelg-Glenelg Nth-West Beach day and night....I dont see the 300 being a success after 6pm. Adelaide people would be really reluctant to take a windy cross suburban service at night.
There will no longer be a bus to and from the City along Portrush Road between Glen Osmond and Greenhill Road, despite a large college, a large primary school, a large private hospital. It has had City buses along this road since trams to Linden Park ceased in 1952 ,and trolley buses took over, only to cease in 1963 and be replaced by diesel buses.
Dunrobin Road Hove currently has 263 to and from Marion(except afternoon peak to the City), plus am services from Hove to the City(245 route).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#912 Post by rubberman » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:00 am

adelaide transport wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:59 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:19 pm

In terms of night buses, only the N40 (City to Elizabeth), N1 (City to Tea Tree Plaza via O-Bahn), N72 (City to Noarlunga/Seaford) and N82 (City to Mount Barker) remain.

In terms of areas losing Public Transport, it's being lost in Oakden, St Marys, Warradale, Wattle Park and Auldana, and West Beach and Glenelg North have to reply on a peak-only service to get to the city or transfer in Glenelg.
Auldana is literally next to the new 19 and 17 routes.
Wattle Park is a 10 minute walk to 20 or 19.

Yes Glenelg Nth and West Beach are under-serviced. I would like to see 30 minute daytime/ 60 minute night time service that runs Glenelg-Gleneg Nth-West Beach-Airport connector bus, timetabled to be a connect with the Airport-City bus. Also the southern streets of Henley Beach Sth would be closer to the Sir Donald Bradman Drive bus rather than Henley Beach Road.

Edit : I just realised that the 300 will service Glenelg-Glenelg Nth-West Beach day and night....I dont see the 300 being a success after 6pm. Adelaide people would be really reluctant to take a windy cross suburban service at night.
There will no longer be a bus to and from the City along Portrush Road between Glen Osmond and Greenhill Road, despite a large college, a large primary school, a large private hospital. It has had City buses along this road since trams to Linden Park ceased in 1952 ,and trolley buses took over, only to cease in 1963 and be replaced by diesel buses.
Dunrobin Road Hove currently has 263 to and from Marion(except afternoon peak to the City), plus am services from Hove to the City(245 route).
My guess, based on these being Liberal seats, is that this is the "obvious mistake" which local Government MPs will rush in to "correct". Thus showing how hard working and effective the MPs are, and how democratic and responsive the Government is.

Further, the Government can then play hard ball in other areas once they've demonstrated how "flexible" they are here.

Of course, I might be cynical.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#913 Post by Eurostar » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:03 pm

NTRabbit wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:32 pm
Spotto wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:12 pm
I can only speak for the Aberfoyle and Blackwood areas for local buses but all of the routes in this area are near identical to the current network. The new Aberfoyle-Flinders-Marion 330 is identical to the current 320; the G22X express from Aberfoyle is now the X331 and terminates at Flinders for a bus-train transfer instead of continuing to the city via Goody Road (less conjestion, faster train journey); and the new Aberfoyle-Blackwood-Marion 332/333 are identical to the current 600/601 except it no longer continues from Aberfoyle to Reynella.

Differences are the 332/333 won't detour from Shepherds Hill Road to stop at the Resthaven retirement home like the 601 did, surely that's a bit of a kick in the gut to any independent and still-mobile residents that live there. There's also no more buses that will run the western half of Manning Road (previously the G20).

For the Free City Connector I think it's weird that it no longer runs via Jerningham Street, it delivered people right into the centre of the Melbourne Street precinct, the new section would probably only save about a minute or two travel time at most so not sure what the gain is meant to be. The Wellington-Light-Victoria Square section has also been completely removed for some reason.
This only works if the trains are going to leave Flinders station every 10 minutes between 6:30 and 8:30am, and vice versa in the afternoon, otherwise it's an absolute reduction in service and increases the amount of time it takes me to get to work. Not sure what traffic you're talking about on Goodwood, because the G22X in particular breezes down there into the city, and the same on the return home. The only time I've been on a G20/21/22X that was slowed down in any way by traffic was at absolute peak afternoon time when they had Ayliffes Rd and South Rd up to Sturt down to a single lane because of construction.
There will still be other bus routes going to City from Flinders Medical Centre including the extended version of the G40 and South Road buses

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#914 Post by adelaide transport » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:33 pm

No G40- there will be a Route 3 all stops bus(in peak hours G20/G21 did not pick up along Goodwood Road-Ser Down only.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#915 Post by TorrensSA » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:32 pm

I hope the "G" buses stop at the new Flinders station. I had to walk from the 681 (this bus is being removed) bus stop 26B on University Drive to the main entrance, it was a 650m walk and 8 mins, the train station would be about 500m from the medical centre interchange, the govt seriously cant think thats an acceptable connection. The new system has so many holes in it.

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