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Norman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:09 pm

English Electric wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:25 pm

[edit]Just saw Norman's post #1074 - is this what you meant by "contraflow"?

That's right, it would be the cheapest and most effective way to go for this small residential street.

Except with Adelaide drivers and pushing the orange cycle, it's likely to end up with more than a few bent mirrors. Can't win, really.

I imagine that the narrow underpass serves as a traffic calming device. Drivers normally drive slower in narrower lanes. What is the perceived benefit of speeding up the traffic by widening the underpass?

What would be the effect of closing it to vehicular traffic completely and making it pedestrian-only?

SBD wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:32 pm

I imagine that the narrow underpass serves as a traffic calming device. Drivers normally drive slower in narrower lanes. What is the perceived benefit of speeding up the traffic by widening the underpass?

What would be the effect of closing it to vehicular traffic completely and making it pedestrian-only?

It would cut the community off Port Road, the nearest roads that go over the train line are Kilkenny Road and Queen Street (both quite far and through a confusing street grid). It would also cut a vital north-south corridor.

Norman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:32 pm

I imagine that the narrow underpass serves as a traffic calming device. Drivers normally drive slower in narrower lanes. What is the perceived benefit of speeding up the traffic by widening the underpass?

What would be the effect of closing it to vehicular traffic completely and making it pedestrian-only?

It would cut the community off Port Road, the nearest roads that go over the train line are Kilkenny Road and Queen Street (both quite far and through a confusing street grid). It would also cut a vital north-south corridor.

I agree with the former, but am not sure this is/should be classed as a vital north-south corridor.

Local traffic still needs this crossing yes, but what north-south through traffic wouldn't be better served by using David Terrace and South Road?

I reckon this could be addressed by making it a left in, left out only turn at Torrens Road and reducing the speed limit down to 40km/h to match the other residential streets in the area. Perhaps add in a few pinch points or contraflows along the route too.

Once the north-south corridor is finished people really shouldn't be using smaller streets like this for journeys through the area.

Llessur2002 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:03 am

Norman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:32 pm

I imagine that the narrow underpass serves as a traffic calming device. Drivers normally drive slower in narrower lanes. What is the perceived benefit of speeding up the traffic by widening the underpass?

What would be the effect of closing it to vehicular traffic completely and making it pedestrian-only?

It would cut the community off Port Road, the nearest roads that go over the train line are Kilkenny Road and Queen Street (both quite far and through a confusing street grid). It would also cut a vital north-south corridor.

I agree with the former, but am not sure this is/should be classed as a vital north-south corridor.

Local traffic still needs this crossing yes, but what north-south through traffic wouldn't be better served by using David Terrace and South Road?

Ermm...the local traffic in the area?
or do you think that to go from Torrens Road to Port Road, people should have to deviate all the way to South Road/T2T??

It's a vital link to Port Road and Torrens Rd(and onto Days Road, Regency Rd and an alternative to getting to the NS Motorway via Liberton Ave)..

Rosetta St simply needs to have the underpass modernized/widened..and the road surface/roundabouts improved.
It doesn't need fancy over the top alterations like one way traffic, or signalized/alternate traffic flow changes to the underpass.
Probably the only other thing that would improve traffic flow, is removing the roundabout at Blanford St, closing traffic from the eastern side of Blanford, to create a T junction with the western half of Blanford st, allowing traffic in/out from there due to the primary school there.

Switch it so the rail goes under the road. Trench all the way to Woodville Railway station removing Kilkenny Road and Woodville Road level crossings.

Also remove West Croydon station

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Ermm...the local traffic in the area?
or do you think that to go from Torrens Road to Port Road, people should have to deviate all the way to South Road/T2T??

It's a vital link to Port Road and Torrens Rd(and onto Days Road, Regency Rd and an alternative to getting to the NS Motorway via Liberton Ave)..

Rosetta St simply needs to have the underpass modernized/widened..and the road surface/roundabouts improved.
It doesn't need fancy over the top alterations like one way traffic, or signalized/alternate traffic flow changes to the underpass.
Probably the only other thing that would improve traffic flow, is removing the roundabout at Blanford St, closing traffic from the eastern side of Blanford, to create a T junction with the western half of Blanford st, allowing traffic in/out from there due to the primary school there.

I don't buy it - look at the layout of roads north of Torrens Road:



Anyone north of Regency Road has a direct arterial route to either South Road or David Terrace. Anyone to the east of Days Road has direct access to South Road via Pym Street.

The only parcel parcel of residents I can see that would genuinely be better off distance-wise using Rosetta Street to travel from Torrens Road to Port Road is the area bounded by Torrens Road, Goodall Avenue, Regency Road and Days Road.

We should be diverting through traffic away from residential areas and onto our main roads. David Terrace and South Road should be optimised to take this traffic, drivers should be disincentivised to use smaller streets like Rosetta Street and Ellen Street for all but local journeys in to and out of residential areas.

Try standing on the platform of West Croydon station in peak hour and watching the traffic flow on Rosetta Street - there is no way that volume of traffic is people driving from the immediate vicinity to Port Road. It is a cut-through used by drivers trying to avoid traffic on the arterial roads.

Many of the residential streets in Glengowrie were used in this way by drivers trying to cut through from Morphett Road to Diagonal Road. Marion Council fixed this using various methods of traffic calming, the same can be applied here once T2T has finished.

I was one of those rat runners. When I lived in Collinswood and had to travelled to work at Woodville I would routinely use Torrens Road, Rosetta and then onto Port. It proved much quicker than staying on Park Terrace for Port road. Now that some of the main road issues are being ironed out, ie South road motorway, and removal of Park Terrace level crossing, there should be less reason for these side roads to be used. I think upgrading the Rosetta subway really should be a low priority.

Llessur2002 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:11 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Ermm...the local traffic in the area?
or do you think that to go from Torrens Road to Port Road, people should have to deviate all the way to South Road/T2T??

It's a vital link to Port Road and Torrens Rd(and onto Days Road, Regency Rd and an alternative to getting to the NS Motorway via Liberton Ave)..

Rosetta St simply needs to have the underpass modernized/widened..and the road surface/roundabouts improved.
It doesn't need fancy over the top alterations like one way traffic, or signalized/alternate traffic flow changes to the underpass.
Probably the only other thing that would improve traffic flow, is removing the roundabout at Blanford St, closing traffic from the eastern side of Blanford, to create a T junction with the western half of Blanford st, allowing traffic in/out from there due to the primary school there.

I don't buy it - look at the layout of roads north of Torrens Road:



Anyone north of Regency Road has a direct arterial route to either South Road or David Terrace. Anyone to the east of Days Road has direct access to South Road via Pym Street.

The only parcel parcel of residents I can see that would genuinely be better off distance-wise using Rosetta Street to travel from Torrens Road to Port Road is the area bounded by Torrens Road, Goodall Avenue, Regency Road and Days Road.

We should be diverting through traffic away from residential areas and onto our main roads. David Terrace and South Road should be optimised to take this traffic, drivers should be disincentivised to use smaller streets like Rosetta Street and Ellen Street for all but local journeys in to and out of residential areas.

Try standing on the platform of West Croydon station in peak hour and watching the traffic flow on Rosetta Street - there is no way that volume of traffic is people driving from the immediate vicinity to Port Road. It is a cut-through used by drivers trying to avoid traffic on the arterial roads.

Many of the residential streets in Glengowrie were used in this way by drivers trying to cut through from Morphett Road to Diagonal Road. Marion Council fixed this using various methods of traffic calming, the same can be applied here once T2T has finished.

You don't buy what?
What does people living north of Regency Road have to do with anything I said?

Of course people use it as a cut through, even more so with T2T works during peak hour.

Is Rosetta street your typical side street, or is it a little more. It's signalized at either end with two main arterial roads...hmm...your argument about residential side/back streets doesn't fit. It even has an underpass. Similar to Chief steet in Brompton, it's not your regular back street.

You can't cut off access and force everyone to major roads only.
Around Underdale..there's side streets that are "closed" to through traffic(unless you're a local resident) in the morning peak hour. Ever been on that stretch of Henley Beach road in peak hour? Two lanes heading into the City, no left turn lane onto Holbrooks road...it's a nightmare. We shouldn't be creating more traffic bottlenecks.

And David Terrace is only slightly better then Rosetta street. It's got a piss poor design. Two lanes merging into one right before a train line. And what they should do there is ban trucks over a certain size(say anything bigger then those small woolies home delivery trucks) from using it. If you look at Google Maps, there seems to be 7 trucks at the Torrens Rd end and 6 on the Port road end..


Another intersection that could do with "fixing" is Grange Road/East Ave/Holbrooks Road.
They should acquire those 6 properties on the corner next to the gym, and create a regular 4 way intersection. Would improve traffic flow and safety. Similar to what happened with Hampstead/Regency/Muller years ago.
Trimmer Parade/Tapleys Hill road rail crossing...could surely sink the rail line under the intersection? Plenty of room with the adjacent golf course..not to mention the same line that crosses over Port Road..

claybro wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:22 pm

I was one of those rat runners. When I lived in Collinswood and had to travelled to work at Woodville I would routinely use Torrens Road, Rosetta and then onto Port. It proved much quicker than staying on Park Terrace for Port road. Now that some of the main road issues are being ironed out, ie South road motorway, and removal of Park Terrace level crossing, there should be less reason for these side roads to be used. I think upgrading the Rosetta subway really should be a low priority.

Chief St will probably get quieter too once T2T is done.

I suspect that the majority of peak hour traffic on Rosetta Street is from cars travelling east towards the city on Torrens Road who choose to divert down to Port Road to avoid the Torrens Road level crossing, South Road or Park Terrace.

Now that the Park Terrace level crossing has been removed and once T2T is finished both of these routes should be preferable to taking Rosetta Street.

The Torrens Road level crossing should be removed as a priority.

If all stars align, preventing east-bound traffic from turning right onto Rosetta Street should cause few problems.

I'd argue that the same applies to Chief Street and that most peak-hour users have been trying to avoid the Torrens Road and Park Terrace level crossings.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Rosetta Street traffic once the motorway is open.

Llessur2002 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:23 pm

The Torrens Road level crossing should be removed as a priority.

Yes. The amount of times a freight train has come to a complete standstill over that crossing I've lost count. It may be better now they have untangled freight and commuter at Torrens Junction., though I don't get over there that much since that was completed.

Tunnels under parts of South Road in my case are a must-have because the Edwardstown/Melrose park portion for instance now has very heavy traffic from time to time.
http://click.e.advertiser.com.au/?qs=5a ... 1fe0d4c495

As a side note; the higher the population density increases, the greater the traffic density increases. Just keep this in mind when playing Sim City!

Here's a question about "Turn Left With Care" slip lanes on arterial roads.

Is there now a policy to eliminate this type of slip lane whenever intersections are re-modelled or re-constructed?

I saw this happened when intersections on Rundle Road, East Terrace and Pirie St / Hutt St were modified during the O-Bahn tunnel construction. (I use the 141/142 buses from Kensington Rd into the City, and a couple of useful left-turn slip lanes from Dequetteville Tce & Rundle Rd were replaced by red-arrow signalized turns. This means my bus now has to dutifully wait its turn at red lights whether this is necessary or not)

I put this down to ACC wanting to make driving in the City as slow and annoying as possible (we should all walk, cycle or take public transport, you know).

Now I've noticed the Greenhill Rd / Portrush Rd intersection near Burnside Civic Centre is being re-done, and former slip lanes there are being replaced by "wait at the red light" arrangements for left turns.

Is this a stated design policy, or is it 'elf & safety by stealth?

Rundle/East intersection had major issues with fitting the amount of pedestrian traffic during events like Fringe.
Hundreds at a time were trying to squeeze on the island and would spill well in to the roads surrounding it in every direction.
At intersections like that with such large volumes of foot traffic the islands seem to be incompatible.