News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Listy
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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1111 Post by Listy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:28 am

Llessur2002 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:44 am
Norman wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:55 am
claybro wrote:Which highlights another problem which in my experience is unique to Adelaide, the length of time a particular light stays green. If we are to use turning arrows for absolutely everything well and good, but please extend the length of light cycles. The constantly changing lights causes major delays as cars just get up to speed, only to reach a red light. The light sequences in Adelaide certainly seem to me to be shorter than the other capitals. Not sure if there are any figures of this, just an observation, but I am not the only person to notice this.
I think the timing of Adelaide's traffic lights are pretty much right. Maybe you're used to the ones in Perth, which I thought took way too long to change in my opinion.
Plus, shorter cycles are much more convenient for pedestrians - it's a bit of a balancing act.
If you want a fun traffic light experience, try crossing Port Rd opposite nRAH as a pedestrian in the daytime (ie at the Port Rd/Nth Tce/West Tce intersection). To get from one side to another there are 3 sets of lights to use, and each has a 2-2.5 minute cycle. The timing is such that you will reach the next crossing just as a new cycle begins, so crossing legally will almost always take around 7 minutes. Bizarrely about 250m west along Port Rd there is another set of lights that has pedestrian priority (despite being in the parklands and nowhere near a pedestrian thoroughfare) so if you walk down to that set of lights, cross, and walk back up the other side, you will usually save time!

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1112 Post by Nathan » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:54 am

Listy wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:28 am
If you want a fun traffic light experience, try crossing Port Rd opposite nRAH as a pedestrian in the daytime (ie at the Port Rd/Nth Tce/West Tce intersection). To get from one side to another there are 3 sets of lights to use, and each has a 2-2.5 minute cycle. The timing is such that you will reach the next crossing just as a new cycle begins, so crossing legally will almost always take around 7 minutes. Bizarrely about 250m west along Port Rd there is another set of lights that has pedestrian priority (despite being in the parklands and nowhere near a pedestrian thoroughfare) so if you walk down to that set of lights, cross, and walk back up the other side, you will usually save time!
Even worse is the Port Rd / James Congdon Dr / George St intersection pedestrian crossing (which are supposed to be part of the parklands trail). In fact, all the Port Rd crossings are terrible for pedestrians. I've missed so many trams because the lights just refuse to change, and trying to cross the whole road to get from Bonython Park to Light Tce takes eons.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1113 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:21 pm

This really bugs me - I can understand the need for the major intersections to be timed primarily around traffic flow in peak times, but it is the smaller crossings that are well away from major intersections that I just don't understand the logic behind their programming.

Two examples that spring to mind are the Port Road crossing at the end of Garnet Street in West Croydon - a fairly popular route for pedestrians heading to Welland Plaza, and the crossing on Goodwood Road outside of the John Ridley memorial gates at Wayville Showground. Both of which can take an eternity to give a green light for pedestrians to cross - even well outside of peak hours. In both locations I would say at least 50% of people waiting to cross end up doing so before the lights have changed because there is absolutely nothing coming in either direction.

It shouldn't take 2-3 minutes to cross one carriageway of a two carriageway road in suburbia. It certainly shouldn't take 7 minutes to cross a road in a capital city right outside of a hospital and tram stop.

In my opinion pedestrian priority at intersections and crossings needs to be given a fairly hefty shake-up if Adelaide is truly to become a walkable city. We need many more scramble and zebra crossings in the city, and true pedestrian priority at most non-intersection crossings elsewhere. Crossings in Europe have traffic sensors installed to eliminate waiting where no traffic is approaching. Why can't the same be done here?

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1114 Post by Listy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Nathan wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:54 am
Listy wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:28 am
If you want a fun traffic light experience, try crossing Port Rd opposite nRAH as a pedestrian in the daytime (ie at the Port Rd/Nth Tce/West Tce intersection). To get from one side to another there are 3 sets of lights to use, and each has a 2-2.5 minute cycle. The timing is such that you will reach the next crossing just as a new cycle begins, so crossing legally will almost always take around 7 minutes. Bizarrely about 250m west along Port Rd there is another set of lights that has pedestrian priority (despite being in the parklands and nowhere near a pedestrian thoroughfare) so if you walk down to that set of lights, cross, and walk back up the other side, you will usually save time!
Even worse is the Port Rd / James Congdon Dr / George St intersection pedestrian crossing (which are supposed to be part of the parklands trail). In fact, all the Port Rd crossings are terrible for pedestrians. I've missed so many trams because the lights just refuse to change, and trying to cross the whole road to get from Bonython Park to Light Tce takes eons.
Looking at google maps, if you're on the Northern corner of George St & you just wanted to get to the other side of Port Rd (ie Bonython Park) it appears that you have to use SIX sets of crossings??!! if correct, that's utterly bonkers...
Imagine living in Thebarton & trying to walk with your kids through that tangle to get to the playground?

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1115 Post by SBD » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:36 pm

claybro wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:08 pm
Which highlights another problem which in my experience is unique to Adelaide, the length of time a particular light stays green. If we are to use turning arrows for absolutely everything well and good, but please extend the length of light cycles. The constantly changing lights causes major delays as cars just get up to speed, only to reach a red light. The light sequences in Adelaide certainly seem to me to be shorter than the other capitals. Not sure if there are any figures of this, just an observation, but I am not the only person to notice this.
The longer "someone else" has green lights, the more likely people are to get impatient and run the red lights. Long greens at intersections with cameras could be seen as "revenue raising".

Most of the time, the lights through the Elizabeth area on Main North Road are synchronised so that once the peak direction has gone through a green light, the rest of the lights will be green too.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1116 Post by rev » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:00 am

They've started road works on Rosetta Street between Torrens Road and Day Terrace(up to the underpass basically), it's going to last until February 2019.
Not going to see a widening of the underpass, but will be interesting to see what they end up doing. Wonder how much the traffic volume in the area will drop by now, as at the moment you can't get through from the Torrens Road end.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1117 Post by Llessur2002 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:41 am

rev wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:00 am
They've started road works on Rosetta Street between Torrens Road and Day Terrace(up to the underpass basically), it's going to last until February 2019.
Not going to see a widening of the underpass, but will be interesting to see what they end up doing. Wonder how much the traffic volume in the area will drop by now, as at the moment you can't get through from the Torrens Road end.
Nothing too exciting - I'm surprised this is supposed to take six months to be honest:

https://www.charlessturt.sa.gov.au/page ... 92&c=57442

This might have actually come at a good time in terms of encouraging drivers who shifted to using Rosetta Street to avoid the T2T works to go back to using the nearly-completed South Road instead.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1118 Post by rev » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:28 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:41 am
This might have actually come at a good time in terms of encouraging drivers who shifted to using Rosetta Street to avoid the T2T works to go back to using the nearly-completed South Road instead.
Hopefully, then our daily commutes can return to normal 8)

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1119 Post by rev » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:39 pm

SYDNEY is notorious for its traffic jams and congestion, but a study has revealed it isn’t the country’s slowest-moving city — Adelaide has taken the crown with an average peak hour speed of 54.3km/h.

According to a new report commissioned by the NRMA, Sydney came in second slowest, with motorists averaging speeds of 59.2km/h on its major roads during the morning and evening peaks.

Melbourne was the next city down with average speeds of 59.9km/h. Perth was the fourth worst city followed by Hobart and Canberra.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... b13f8825bf

We're number one at least in something I guess :lol:
CONGESTED AIRPORT ROUTES AND SPEEDS

The Brisbane CBD to airport route was the most congested, followed by the Melbourne and Adelaide airport routes. Canberra, Darwin and Sydney had the least congested airport routes.
Helps the case for a tram link to the airport or heavy rail or...?

Adelaide:

Travel time losses were the greatest for the Holden Hill to CBD route (2.2 minutes lost) between 2013-2018

In contrast, people travelling on the South-CBD route gained an average of 2.6 minutes in morning peak periods from 2013-2018

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1120 Post by SBD » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:23 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:39 pm
SYDNEY is notorious for its traffic jams and congestion, but a study has revealed it isn’t the country’s slowest-moving city — Adelaide has taken the crown with an average peak hour speed of 54.3km/h.

According to a new report commissioned by the NRMA, Sydney came in second slowest, with motorists averaging speeds of 59.2km/h on its major roads during the morning and evening peaks.

Melbourne was the next city down with average speeds of 59.9km/h. Perth was the fourth worst city followed by Hobart and Canberra.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... b13f8825bf

We're number one at least in something I guess :lol:
Presumably Adelaide is less-congested but "slower" than Sydney because we don't have freeways leading direct to the city centre across the inner suburbs. Really, I'm stunned that anyone could make a journey in peak hour at an average speed of 54.3km/h. Driving at the 60km/h speed limit and stopping for a full cycle at a red light should drop the average that far, wouldn't it? Do we have any roads with a speed limit above 60 inside of Gepps Cross, Glen Osmond and Darlington? (typed before I remembered the North-South motorway).
rev wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:39 pm
CONGESTED AIRPORT ROUTES AND SPEEDS

The Brisbane CBD to airport route was the most congested, followed by the Melbourne and Adelaide airport routes. Canberra, Darwin and Sydney had the least congested airport routes.
Helps the case for a tram link to the airport or heavy rail or...?
Brisbane has heavy rail to the airport, I've used it for both work and leisure travel, including to the Gold Coast (fly to Brisbane then use the train can be significantly cheaper than flying to the Gold Coast).
rev wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:39 pm
Adelaide:

Travel time losses were the greatest for the Holden Hill to CBD route (2.2 minutes lost) between 2013-2018

In contrast, people travelling on the South-CBD route gained an average of 2.6 minutes in morning peak periods from 2013-2018
Had the Darlington roadworks started by the time they did the 2018 survey?

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1121 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:28 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:23 pm

Presumably Adelaide is less-congested but "slower" than Sydney because we don't have freeways leading direct to the city centre across the inner suburbs. Really, I'm stunned that anyone could make a journey in peak hour at an average speed of 54.3km/h. Driving at the 60km/h speed limit and stopping for a full cycle at a red light should drop the average that far, wouldn't it? Do we have any roads with a speed limit above 60 inside of Gepps Cross, Glen Osmond and Darlington? (typed before I remembered the North-South motorway).
Aside from the Motorway, all I can think of is Tapleys Hill Road between Sir Donald Bradman Drive and Africaine Road. This stretch is 80km/h.
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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1122 Post by Listy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:24 am

The actual report can be found here:
https://www.aaa.asn.au/2018/10/15/aaa-c ... headlines/
It's a textbook example of a lobbying thinkpiece, there's plenty of dodgy graphs for everyone and bad news in there for every capital city in Australia. The high average speeds can be explained by the methodology - it's poorly explained but it seems to be a vaguely defined measure of overall average speed on freeway type roads (so for Adelaide - Sthn Expressway, SE Freeway, Main North Rd) and arterial (Henley Beach, Grange, NE Road & a couple of others), at ALL times of day, including the middle of the night. The data mainly came from an anonymised GPS dataset of vehicle satnavs & smartphone navigation apps etc.
It really only demonstrates that traffic on Australia's roads in increasing & we are all driving a bit slower each year as a consequence and that's it.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1123 Post by SRW » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:42 pm

Listy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:24 am
The actual report can be found here:
https://www.aaa.asn.au/2018/10/15/aaa-c ... headlines/
It's a textbook example of a lobbying thinkpiece, there's plenty of dodgy graphs for everyone and bad news in there for every capital city in Australia. The high average speeds can be explained by the methodology - it's poorly explained but it seems to be a vaguely defined measure of overall average speed on freeway type roads (so for Adelaide - Sthn Expressway, SE Freeway, Main North Rd) and arterial (Henley Beach, Grange, NE Road & a couple of others), at ALL times of day, including the middle of the night. The data mainly came from an anonymised GPS dataset of vehicle satnavs & smartphone navigation apps etc.
It really only demonstrates that traffic on Australia's roads in increasing & we are all driving a bit slower each year as a consequence and that's it.
Well, yeah. It's commissioned by the Automobile Society, who've an obvious interest in trying to get more funding for roads.
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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1124 Post by rev » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Is the data wrong though?
Doesn’t increased congestion add to the argument that we need more investment in transport infrastructure, both roads and public transport?

So where’s the problem..

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1125 Post by SBD » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:20 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:19 pm
Is the data wrong though?
Doesn’t increased congestion add to the argument that we need more investment in transport infrastructure, both roads and public transport?

So where’s the problem..
I guess increased congestion could be caused - and cured - by any number of things.
  • More employment centres away from a single central business district might help to alleviate the time taken to travel there.
  • Higher housing density might decrease, increase, or just change the profile of congestion, and the right transport solutions for it
  • Bigger wider and faster freeways to get people to the traffic jam faster - this seems to be reported as the main outcome of the T2T project so far.
  • Faster and more attractive public transport might get people out of their own cars and off of the roads
  • higher parking charges in the CBD might also make people reconsider public transport

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