News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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SBD
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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1216 Post by SBD » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:00 pm

ginzahikari wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:33 pm
mawsonguy wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:47 pm
The Industry Forward Work Plan 2019 has been updated https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 63rdqenKaX

Points of Interest:
  • Darlington is scheduled for completion at the end of 2020
  • Northern Connector works scheduled to finish last quarter 2019 (that's 4 months away - I think that they'll be pushing it)
  • Pym St\Regency Rd works start final quarter of 2019 and finish at end of 2021
  • No construction on remainder of North\South Motorway scheduled to commence during period from now to end 2021
  • There's a lot of intersection, level crossing and rural road upgrades in 2021 which might keep people employed until the Torrens to Darlington works start.
Also noticed that there are more than 2 pages worth of road projects, while there are only less than 10 PT projects listed...
Are more trains included as part of the Gawler line upgrade, or are they missing from this list?

There are also several projects with planning, but no schedule for building them. Presumably this is because the study might decide not to proceed (for now at least). Alternatively, they might become budget items for next year.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1217 Post by SRW » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:14 pm

'Left-turn slip lanes to be removed at Adelaide intersections following four pedestrian deaths' reports ABC News

It's about bloody time, but I'd note there are some other dangerous ones not mentioned for removal.
Keep Adelaide Weird

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1218 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:10 pm

SRW wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:14 pm
'Left-turn slip lanes to be removed at Adelaide intersections following four pedestrian deaths' reports ABC News

It's about bloody time, but I'd note there are some other dangerous ones not mentioned for removal.
The problem with slip lanes in Adelaide is that the pedestrian crossings are poorly marked. Often there's no zebra crossing. If they painted a zebra crossing, more drivers would look out for pedestrians.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1219 Post by Nathan » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:48 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:10 pm
SRW wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:14 pm
'Left-turn slip lanes to be removed at Adelaide intersections following four pedestrian deaths' reports ABC News

It's about bloody time, but I'd note there are some other dangerous ones not mentioned for removal.
The problem with slip lanes in Adelaide is that the pedestrian crossings are poorly marked. Often there's no zebra crossing. If they painted a zebra crossing, more drivers would look out for pedestrians.
I doubt that's the problem. The former Botanic Rd / East Tce slip lane was covered in "give way to pedestrians" signs, and 95% of the time they were ignored. I imagine you could light them up like a Christmas tree and it would make zero difference. Removing them altogether is the correct solution.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1220 Post by TorrensSA » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:23 pm

I had some guy abuse me because I turned right into the left lane, he was in the slip lane and had to give way to me. It was a singe right turn lane into a two lanes, I can choose either lane to turn into. From NSW but the rule is the same https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads ... -car-a.jpg imagine a slip lane at the arrow.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1221 Post by mawsonguy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:26 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:23 pm
I had some guy abuse me because I turned right into the left lane, he was in the slip lane and had to give way to me. It was a singe right turn lane into a two lanes, I can choose either lane to turn into. From NSW but the rule is the same https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads ... -car-a.jpg imagine a slip lane at the arrow.
Sorry, you are not right. The Australian Road Rules as applied in SA (https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/ ... Rules.aspx) state:
33—Making a right turn
(1) A driver turning right at an intersection must make the turn in accordance with this rule unless—
[Not applicable]
(2) If there is a turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn as indicated by the turn line.
(3) If there is no turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn so the driver—
(a) passes as near as practicable to the right of the centre of the intersection; and
(b) turns into the left of the centre of the road the driver is entering, unless the driver is entering a one-way road.
Basically, you can only turn into the left lane of a multilane road if there is a turn line indicating that you can do so (usually where there are 2 or more right turn lanes). If you turn into the left lane you are changing lanes and have to give way to other road users in that lane.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1222 Post by bits » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 pm

The person in a slip lane gives way to a car changing lanes also though?

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1223 Post by TorrensSA » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:34 am

All that it says is I need to turn onto the left side of the road, not what lane. No turn line, so you can turn into either lane. The NSW image I showed is correct. Go ask a professional. You can turn into any lane if you're turning from a single right turning lane https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads ... -car-a.jpg - the image is clear. Turn lines need to be followed, they show what lane you need to turn into, no turn lines you can enter any lane that is on the left side of the road.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1224 Post by rhino » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:54 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:34 am
All that it says is I need to turn onto the left side of the road, not what lane. No turn line, so you can turn into either lane. The NSW image I showed is correct. Go ask a professional. You can turn into any lane if you're turning from a single right turning lane https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads ... -car-a.jpg - the image is clear. Turn lines need to be followed, they show what lane you need to turn into, no turn lines you can enter any lane that is on the left side of the road.
This matches what my sons were taught when they got their driving licences in the last couple of years.
cheers,
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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1225 Post by urban » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:02 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:34 am
All that it says is I need to turn onto the left side of the road, not what lane. No turn line, so you can turn into either lane. The NSW image I showed is correct. Go ask a professional. You can turn into any lane if you're turning from a single right turning lane https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads ... -car-a.jpg - the image is clear. Turn lines need to be followed, they show what lane you need to turn into, no turn lines you can enter any lane that is on the left side of the road.
The image is from NSW not SA. Item 3a from MawsonGuy applies in SA.

"(3) If there is no turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn so the driver—
(a) passes as near as practicable to the right of the centre of the intersection; "

which means in a multi lane road you are required to enter the right hand lane.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1226 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:28 pm

urban wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:02 pm
The image is from NSW not SA. Item 3a from MawsonGuy applies in SA.

"(3) If there is no turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn so the driver—
(a) passes as near as practicable to the right of the centre of the intersection; "

which means in a multi lane road you are required to enter the right hand lane.
Does it?

All that states is how to cross the intersection so that two cars each turning right from opposite directions pass in front of each other and do not collide. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to which lane you enter when you enter the road you are turning in to.

And 3(b) turns into the left of the centre of the road the driver is entering, unless the driver is entering a one-way road would seem to suggest only that you don't turn into oncoming traffic i.e. turn across the right of the centre of the intersection into oncoming traffic.

Neither specifically states which lane you should turn into in the case of a multi-lane road which, if unstated, presumably means the turning driver has the choice.

Plus, in the case of a driver exiting the slip lane, presumably the basic rules of giving way to the right and giving way to traffic already using the road you are turning in to apply? The Road Rules just state:
You must give way to any pedestrian or bicycle rider on, or entering the slip lane and to any vehicle approaching from your right including an oncoming vehicle that has turned right at the intersection.

A slip lane is an area of road for vehicles turning left that is separated at some point by a painted island or traffic island.
I can't find anything in the rules that suggests this excludes multi-lane roads.

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1227 Post by rhino » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:10 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:28 pm
….. in the case of a driver exiting the slip lane, presumably the basic rules of giving way to the right and giving way to traffic already using the road you are turning in to apply?
When both vehicles are travelling in basically the same direction (as they would conceivably be in this case), the vehicle in front has the right of way. It's basically the merge rule.

Interestingly, this also applies when entering a freeway from an entry lane. If you are travelling at freeway speed in the entry lane, the traffic coming up behind you on the freeway must give way to you.

These are things my sons have learned from their professional driving instructors while going for their licenses.
cheers,
Rhino

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1228 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:40 pm

rhino wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:10 pm
When both vehicles are travelling in basically the same direction (as they would conceivably be in this case), the vehicle in front has the right of way. It's basically the merge rule.
That depends on the situation as to whether a single lane is merging or whether a separate lane is merging into an adjacent lane - see examples 38 and 39 below (from https://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/ ... giving-way).
rhino wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:10 pm
If you are travelling at freeway speed in the entry lane, the traffic coming up behind you on the freeway must give way to you.
I agree that's how merging onto freeways *should* work in a best-practice situation. Hailing from Europe it's as frustrating as hell when you know how seamlessly it works there. However, according to the SA road rules where two lanes merge and are marked by dotted lines (as are freeway slip lanes) the vehicle crossing the line must give way to any vehicle already travelling in the lane the driver wishes to enter, because it is considered changing lanes to enter the major road (as per example 39 below):

Image

Merging vehicles should ideally not stop to give way, but have a responsibility to find a suitable, safe gap to merge into. Other drivers can assist by adjusting speeds or changing lanes if possible to create a suitable gap but I don't think they are compelled to do so (providing their actions don't fall into the careless/dangerous driving category).

The left turn slip lanes in the original Advertiser article are usually just additional left turn lanes which allow left turning traffic through an intersection when the straight ahead signals are red. They generally don't have a long enough length parallel to the road you are turning in to build up speed to merge and should be used on a give way basis as per the SA road rules which state:
Giving way when turning left from a Slip Lane. You must give way to...any vehicle approaching from your right including an oncoming vehicle that has turned right at the intersection

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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1229 Post by bits » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:47 pm

I'm confident the rule in SA was changed several years ago to match other states and make it more clear.
Previously the rule was the you must end a turn in the lane you started from. eg turning right from right most lane means you enter new road on right most lane. Turn left from left most lane means you would enter new road on left most lane.
That was the old rule, new rule allows for either lane as NSW says.


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Re: News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

#1230 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:54 am

How is it that in a nation of 25 million people, we have 8 different sets of road rules for each of the jurisdictions. :wallbash:

It should be set of road rules to rule them all.
Any views and opinions expressed are of my own, and do not reflect the views or opinions of any organisation of which I have an affiliation with.

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