[COM] South Road Superway | $842m | 3km

[claybro]

mmm sorry Im not buying your doomsday theory. If you think our traffic is bad, spend some time in Perth, Brisbane, Sydney and Melb. Even supa-dupa Perth with its freeways has traffic congestion in peak hours. Its a common trait of all western cities. Some argue that Adelaide's road system flows more smoothly without freeways compared to the freeway mad cities where freeways all of sudden end near the city, dumping piles of cars at traffic lights, clogging the freeway behind them for miles and miles

Have spent plenty of time in Perth and Melbourne. Yes the freeways are conjested in peak hour. But for 22 hours per day, cope very adequately with all traffic. Perths freeways North and South form a spine through the middle of the metro area from the far South to the far North, similar to our south rd alignment. It was possible on most days in Perth to travel from Kwinana to the Joondulup at 80-100km/h with only some minor delays around roudworks. Melbourne is the same except for some sections slowing to 40km/h for roadworks etc. Those who advocate for upgrade of arterial roads only, should look at what happened in the 1980's in Melbourne, when they created the SE Arterial road in lieu of a freeway. Within 10 years it was a carpark such was the conjestion and so eventually the Monash Freeway was constructed. Freeways are not perfect, but until we come up with another way of moving large volumes of traffic, at speed over long distances they have proven to be the best option.

[rubberman]

mmm sorry Im not buying your doomsday theory. If you think our traffic is bad, spend some time in Perth, Brisbane, Sydney and Melb. Even supa-dupa Perth with its freeways has traffic congestion in peak hours. Its a common trait of all western cities. Some argue that Adelaide's road system flows more smoothly without freeways compared to the freeway mad cities where freeways all of sudden end near the city, dumping piles of cars at traffic lights, clogging the freeway behind them for miles and miles

Personally, I don't use South Road all that much myself, so from my point of view, I would agree with the stance of "what's all the fuss about?" I guess the point is that if you don't think there is a problem, for whatever reason, then it is rational from your point of view not to want to be bothered with the cost and inconvenience of upgrading. That is quite fair enough. My comments were not really directed at those who see no problem with South Road, rather with those who do see a problem, and suggesting what may be done about it - such as extending the Superway etc etc. It is that sort of construction and that sort of cost that is going to be needed to address the problem. Of course that remains subject to the will of South Australians to do anything about it.

I do sometimes idly wonder whether or not it will get so bad that people will actually demand that something be done, and something effective is done (not the bandaid bit here and bit there). Or whether businesses who use South Road slowly get to teed off that they gradually head interstate, one by one and that nobody notices (It is the superway that is intended to solve their problems). Ah well, we shall see what happens over the next ten years, I suppose.

[Aidan]

I'm thinking of several north-south, parallel, high capacity, roads spaced approximately 1km apart. With an appropriate quantity of end and cross connections. Couple this with improved (and more obvious) inner and outer city ring routes as well as similar solutions in other areas of Greater Adelaide. Plus attractive PT improvements to balance.

That's pretty similar to what we already have (except the spacing is based on miles rather than km) which is a big part of the reason why we've managed to accommodate the traffic for so long without freeways and without grinding to a halt.

I don't know how we got from that sensible policy to one where it's envisaged that (after being made nonstop) South Road will be widened and widened and widened. I do know a certain Thinker In Residence failed to understand that our internationally unusual practice of having several parallel routes of similar importance was one of our greatest strengths.

Problem is, most of Adelaides manufacturing/wharehouse and distribution and employment centres on the South road alignment. Lonsdale, Edwardstown/Melrose Pk/ Mile End/Thebarton/Regency and Wingfield all directly access South road.

True to some extent, but there is quite a lot of manufacturing and warehousing elsewhere in the inner suburbs. And Lonsdale isn't on South Road at all, and is just as easy to get to via any of the other roads.

I imagine you envisage free flowing alignments along Brighton/Tapleys Hill and Marion/Holbrooks/East/David Terrace/Regency Rd. These travel through mainly residential areas and if they are to be of any use to commerical transport we would need to drastically decentralise industry from its current alignment. This would not be a good outcome for the residents of most of the Western suburbs. I dont think the good folk of Brighton/ Fulham/Lockleys/Seaton etc will be too thrilled at trucks rumbling along from Lonsdale to Port Adelaide via Tapleys Hill Rd alignment. Likewise those in Plympton/Underdale/Flinders Park and Allenby Gardens would like the outcome either of the seconf alignment either. But I guess all those residents along South road would be happy with slightly less traffic on their route.

As I expect you already know, there's already a lot of truck traffic running via Tapleys and Brighton Road. The problem with making them nonstop wouldn't be the truck noise, it would be the overpasses and underpasses, the inability to cross the street, and the inability for residents to back out. A better solution, as I think I've said before, is a tollway under the Morphett Road corridor to fill the gap in the grid that Adelaide Airport currently creates.

[claybro]

I don't know how we got from that sensible policy to one where it's envisaged that (after being made nonstop) South Road will be widened and widened and widened. I do know a certain Thinker In Residence failed to understand that our internationally unusual practice of having several parallel routes of similar importance was one of our greatest strengths.

Because clearly this practice is not working and that is why it is "internationally unusual". You are proposing grade separated intersections and road widening that would disrupt 60% of the residents of the Western suburubs in order to preserve the South Road corridor which is largely light industrial and commercial from being too wide???

True to some extent, but there is quite a lot of manufacturing and warehousing elsewhere in the inner suburbs. And Lonsdale isn't on South Road at all, and is just as easy to get to via any of the other roads.

True, there are small isolated pckets in small locations but nowhere near the amount near South road, and Lonsdale is incredibly easy to get to from the SthExpy in fact Lonsdale has its own exit

As I expect you already know, there's already a lot of truck traffic running via Tapleys and Brighton Road. The problem with making them nonstop wouldn't be the truck noise, it would be the overpasses and underpasses, the inability to cross the street, and the inability for residents to back out. A better solution, as I think I've said before, is a tollway under the Morphett Road corridor to fill the gap in the grid that Adelaide Airport currently creates

The state is broke, we cannot even afford to widen South Road, and toll tunnels recently in Brisbane and Sydney have proven a financial disaster. Such an extensive tunnel will not happen in our working lifetime. It would be like perscribing chemotherapy to cure a common cold.

[Nathan]

I'm sure it's been suggested earlier in the thread, but would these "internationally unusual parallel roads" be more effective if we just made them all clearways at all times? We have all these quite wide 4 lane roads covering the entire metro area. All these roads get hampered by parked cars in the left lane, and right turning cars in the right lane. If we remove those obstacles such that each of these roads delivers 2 lanes of free-flowing traffic each way - then surely that would more than negate the need to widen one single arterial. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper too. The problem isn't traffic lights.

[Aidan]

I don't know how we got from that sensible policy to one where it's envisaged that (after being made nonstop) South Road will be widened and widened and widened. I do know a certain Thinker In Residence failed to understand that our internationally unusual practice of having several parallel routes of similar importance was one of our greatest strengths.

Because clearly this practice is not working and that is why it is "internationally unusual".

The practice worked well throughout the 20th century, allowing the state to avoid much of the expense and disruption of the MATS Plan. But the combination of population growth and not doing enough to upgrade the suburban railways (and eventually closing them down for months at a time) has overwhelmed our road system.

You are proposing grade separated intersections and road widening that would disrupt 60% of the residents of the Western suburubs in order to preserve the South Road corridor which is largely light industrial and commercial from being too wide???

No I am not. I'm proposing grade separating the tram crossing on Marion Road, not the entire road! Also I'd like to see both ends of Holbrooks Road realigned, with the long term aim of connecting it with Hanson Road (as was planned decades ago).

True to some extent, but there is quite a lot of manufacturing and warehousing elsewhere in the inner suburbs. And Lonsdale isn't on South Road at all, and is just as easy to get to via any of the other roads.

True, there are small isolated pckets in small locations but nowhere near the amount near South road, and Lonsdale is incredibly easy to get to from the SthExpy in fact Lonsdale has its own exit

I'm well aware of the Sherriffs Road exit. But the Expressway is as easy to get to from Marion Road as from South Road, and of course Lonsdale Road also goes to Lonsdale.

As I expect you already know, there's already a lot of truck traffic running via Tapleys and Brighton Road. The problem with making them nonstop wouldn't be the truck noise, it would be the overpasses and underpasses, the inability to cross the street, and the inability for residents to back out. A better solution, as I think I've said before, is a tollway under the Morphett Road corridor to fill the gap in the grid that Adelaide Airport currently creates

The state is broke, we cannot even afford to widen South Road,

The state isn't broke. Nor was it broke back when the politicians claimed we could only afford a one way expressway.
We can't afford not to widen South Road.

and toll tunnels recently in Brisbane and Sydney have proven a financial disaster. Such an extensive tunnel will not happen in our working lifetime.

Speak for yourself!
Was Brisbane even contemplating toll tunnels twenty years ago?

It is true that some toll tunnels in Brisbane and Sydney have proven a financial disaster. But before extrapolating that to Adelaide, consider these points:
1) Those tunnels opened relatively recently. It will be a long time before we have much idea what their long term financial performance will be.
2) Other toll tunnels in Sydney and Melbourne have performed much better financially.
3) Tunnels are capital intensive, so if interest rates are lower the financial performance is much better.
4) Economic costs are very different from financial costs. Current financing arrangements don't properly take that into account, but it is possible (and in the long term, even likely) that it will be recognised that the long term deflationary effect of having infrastructure greatly exceeds the short term inflationary effect of building it.

It would be like perscribing chemotherapy to cure a common cold.

Chemotherapy would not even address the symptoms of a common cold. But tunnels are a great long term solution to transport problems.

[rubberman]

While it is true that Adelaide's parallel roads north-south have enabled us to avoid biting the bullet and spending on something that has a long term future, there are a couple of down sides.

The first is that the total capacity is still limited relative to other solutions (Freeway, or Superway or tunnel) and sooner, rather than later, we get to the point we are fast approaching.

The second is a practical one, and that is that whatever we do (Freeway, Superway, cut and cover tunnel) will be very disruptive. Had we done any of these twenty years ago, the parallel roads would have had the capacity to cope with traffic diverted from the construction zones. Now, if we were to build anything new, where exactly do we think those extra cars are going to go over the years that construction will take? That is another reason for not waiting till parallel roads are at their most congested before doing anything. We are past that point now. We may seriously be at the point where Aidan's tunnels, no matter that they are grossly more expensive than any other option, Superway included, that they may be the only long term solution possible. Sure, we can go on doing a bit here, and overpass there, a clearway and a few traffic light changes somewhere else, but all those are short term bandaids. Without proper planning, we are going to end up paying for both a bored tunnel (ie not as cheap as cut and cover) as well as having paid for overpasses and underpasses. If we do something in the next few years, a Superway extension might be feasible if it can be done with works diversions.

The end point is, we may end up paying for the highest cost solution plus all the gimcrack bandaid overpasses, plus the economic costs of business losses due to congestion in the mean time. All because we did no planning for an alternative after we rejected MATS.

For reference, I would point out that Prague, a city of the same number of inhabitants as Adelaide, has a 3 line metro, 900 trams, about 1500 buses, extensive commuter rail network, freeways, and tunnels. So we could afford the same infrastructure if we put our minds to it. A much longer superway or whatever would, or should, be a piece of cake for us.

[Amused]

Why dont you help out and do your thing and move closer to work As someone who has just moved to the city, I now cant fathom how people will travel huge distances to work each day so they can maintain a quarter acre block lifestyle. Each to their own I guess

Wow, you say that like;
A) I hadn't considered it;-
B) I'm living in anything other than a ___hole, let alone a quarter acre block;- and,
C) I live on the opposite side of the city to where I currently work for my own health and amusement. (The username may have thrown you on this one)

But as I said, that all changes next year.

In the interim, I usually only use South Road to go to the airport now or just for my own curiosity occasionally to see how bad it is, or of course to rubber-neck at the Superway construction.

[claybro]

Why dont you help out and do your thing and move closer to work As someone who has just moved to the city, I now cant fathom how people will travel huge distances to work each day so they can maintain a quarter acre block lifestyle. Each to their own I guess

Wow, you say that like;
A) I hadn't considered it;-
B) I'm living in anything other than a ___hole, let alone a quarter acre block;- and,
C) I live on the opposite side of the city to where I currently work for my own health and amusement. (The username may have thrown you on this one)

But as I said, that all changes next year.

In the interim, I usually only use South Road to go to the airport now or just for my own curiosity occasionally to see how bad it is, or of course to rubber-neck at the Superway construction.

I also live far from work not by choice, but because
1. My work HQ moved from Woodville to Mawson Lakes about 3 years ago.
2. My ex wife and therefore my children moved from the Western suburbs to Blackwood.
School drop off pressures necessitated me moving to the inner South, around Melrose park presently. But contantly moving due to landlords selling properties etc.
You see, there are tens of thousands of us out there that have no choice but to go where work and family commitments dictate.
And as Adelaide has continued to sprawl, even the public transport cannot poosible keep up with everyones movements over such a huge geographical area. The current road system has not kept pace with
1. Popultaion growth.
2. Changing demographics and marriage patterns.
3. The explosion of import led consumerism that requires everything we make is transported and exported, or imported and consumed ie. online shopping to home/office door. More Superways are unfortunately going to be a necessity.

[rev]

Damn, haven't driven on a road smoother then resurfaced South Road approach to the start of the superway.

[Norman]

Video from yesterday

[JamesXander]

Great vid. Just out of Interst could you please tell me the name of that song! Thanks!

[Shahkar]

Cheers for that! Great to see a drivers perspective on it

[Norman]

Great vid. Just out of Interst could you please tell me the name of that song! Thanks!

Night Owl by Broke For Free... it's under a free licence.

[The Scooter Guy]

From Sunday 16th June. Soon, it will be indeed a very busy scene!

A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr


A16 Grand Junction Rd by The Scooter Guy, on Flickr