News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Goodsy
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1726 Post by Goodsy » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:03 am

SBD wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:38 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:42 pm
SBD wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:20 pm
Maybe I am out of step with "modern thinking". I think we'd be better off if Elizabeth, Mount Barker, Stirling, Reynella, Noarlunga had stayed as regional centres rather than becoming predominantly dormitories for people working in Adelaide. There are a lot more populous cities in the world with much smaller footprints than Adelaide.
Well its too late now, Elizabeth, Mt Barker, Reynella have effectively been Adelaide suburbs for a long time ......the question is now what development do you plan for them? Leave them as dormitory suburbs where people drive out at 8 am and return at 6pm (or if you are really lucky, decent public transport to their place of work) or do you consider activating some sort of development (and I mean more than a shopping centre!)

And Murray Bridge really isn't that far away in commute times (1 hour to the Adelaide CBD). Plenty of people in Sydney and Melbourne do that already (and I am not arguing that Murray Bridge should become a suburb, I would rather see Adelaide consolidate its already established footprint and stop the sprawl..
No to Buckland Park!)
Contrary to the popular opinion that the last employer left the Elizabeth area when General Motors stopped manufacturing cars in Australia, there are still a lot of employers in the area - Defence, several Defence contractors, Drake's new warehouse opens mid-year, Coles warehouse, Inghams, Treasury Wines warehouse, health services around the Lyell McEwin Hospital. I have been to the CBD a couple of times this year so far I think.

I agree that they have become somewhat of Adelaide dormitories. I don't have a good solution for what went wrong to make that happen and whether it is possible to reverse it. I know that making commuting easier is not going to fix it. Making commuting from even further away easier is just going to continue the issue. Murray Bridge is further from the CBD than Buckland Park, and far more expensive to build commuter rail to. If either is to be expanded for Adelaide's urban sprawl, Buckland Park swampland is a better choice (assuming the houses are far enough above the streets to handle Gawler River floods).
Two Wells and Virginia will be where the growth happens (where it is already happening).. And they're both already on a rail corridor. Build a new passenger line following the ARTC line from Salisbury to Two Wells or even extend it to Mallala

There's also the cheapo option of bringing standard gauge into Adelaide station and running service on that

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1727 Post by PeFe » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:20 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:03 am
Two Wells and Virginia will be where the growth happens (where it is already happening).. And they're both already on a rail corridor. Build a new passenger line following the ARTC line from Salisbury to Two Wells or even extend it to Mallala
Seriously what is the point of expanding Adelaide's urban footprint out further to places like Two Wells or Mallala?
There are no services out there, no jobs, no public transport, no entertainment of any sort....

The population of the Adelaide metro area is is only 1.35 million.....nothing in world terms, and the urban footprint is one of the largest in the world for this population......no European city with the comparable population (Toulouse for example ) is the size of Adelaide. You have to travel to the North America to find comparable populations spread out over a comparable area.

Urban consolidation offers a chance for Adelaide to regain some of its "urban fabric" lost before the onslaught of the motor car (people living close to services and jobs with adequate public transport)

And given Adelaide's elderly population, there will plenty of available family homes as the elderly downsize or move to city apartments, just as the 35 year olds sell up their city apartments to move to suburbia to have kids.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1728 Post by Goodsy » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:42 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:20 pm
Goodsy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:03 am
Two Wells and Virginia will be where the growth happens (where it is already happening).. And they're both already on a rail corridor. Build a new passenger line following the ARTC line from Salisbury to Two Wells or even extend it to Mallala
There are no services out there, no public transport

He says.. in a thread specifically about Public Transport and Policy.


It doesn't mater how you feel about it.. Because it's happening now, homes are being built and people are moving in.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1729 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:23 pm

ml69 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:53 pm
claybro wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:01 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:44 am
I may have misunderstood you. I was thinking of the loop through Belair/Blackwood/Eden Hills as the problem. Are you meaning the section from Bridgewater through Balhannah and Nairne?
Yes. Removing that giant deviation would speed up a passenger service significantly. As you say though, the freeway alignment may be too steep.
A rail service to Mt Barker would cost several billion dollars with huge lengths of tunnels required and would be a giant waste of money. There are higher priorities than this.

Buses down the freeway are just as fast.

All we need is another bus lane for the last 1-2km of freeway downtrack towards the Tollgate. Then we need a bus-only tunnel to connect the Tollgate with Fullarton Rd near Vic Park racecourse (thereby completely bypassing Glen Osmond Rd). Then it’s a simple left turn down Wakefield St into the CBD ... this could also be on a bus lane.
Another "out there" idea to improve the bus service is the Mount Barker O-Bahn thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6340

O-Bahn guideways can run buses at 165 km/h, so a high speed bus to Mount Barker will be much faster than driving. Laying guideways is much cheaper than tunnels.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1730 Post by PeFe » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:42 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:23 pm

O-Bahn guideways can run buses at 165 km/h, so a high speed bus to Mount Barker will be much faster than driving. Laying guideways is much cheaper than tunnels.
Mt Barker buses already have a freeway to drive on.........why would you build an O-Bahn up there? You wouldn't.......

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1731 Post by Aidan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:35 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote: O-Bahn guideways can run buses at 165 km/h, so a high speed bus to Mount Barker will be much faster than driving. Laying guideways is much cheaper than tunnels.
165km/h??? Where did you get that figure?
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1732 Post by Eurostar » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:39 am

I was told by a bus driver that the latest buses are played around with, it makes them more economical but bit gutless, hence they crawl up South Eastern Freeway and Southern Expressway

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1733 Post by Goodsy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:07 am

Eurostar wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:39 am
I was told by a bus driver that the latest buses are played around with, it makes them more economical but bit gutless, hence they crawl up South Eastern Freeway and Southern Expressway
they're geared to accelerate fast in stop start traffic, not cruise at a high speed. That's why they scream on the o-bahn and occasionally catch fire

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1734 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:32 pm

Aidan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:35 am
1NEEDS2POST wrote: O-Bahn guideways can run buses at 165 km/h, so a high speed bus to Mount Barker will be much faster than driving. Laying guideways is much cheaper than tunnels.
165km/h??? Where did you get that figure?
The technology can handle that speed, not the existing one in Adelaide. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1735 Post by Norman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:56 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Aidan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:35 am
1NEEDS2POST wrote: O-Bahn guideways can run buses at 165 km/h, so a high speed bus to Mount Barker will be much faster than driving. Laying guideways is much cheaper than tunnels.
165km/h??? Where did you get that figure?
The technology can handle that speed, not the existing one in Adelaide. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0
I've never seen the 165km/h referenced anywhere but in this website, and a forum full of bus gunzels is not a valid source of information.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1736 Post by Westside » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:27 pm

O-bahn will only control the bus's lateral movement. It does nothing to slow the bus down again at the end of the steep decline. Which is why buses and all other heavy vehicles are and will still have a restricted speed when making that journey. An o-bahn will not fix that. 165 km/hr will require much greater headways and potentially rail-like signalling to be able to address that, which will reduce the effectiveness of that traffic corridor. The only thing that will help that corridor is an extra bus-only lane between the city and Crafers - but that is the expensive part.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1737 Post by OlympusAnt » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:20 pm

Fix Glen Osmond Rd, especially the intersection with South Tce/Pultney St. Surely a sacrifice of a little bit of the parklands for improved traffic flow could be done.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1738 Post by Aidan » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:16 pm

OlympusAnt wrote:Fix Glen Osmond Rd, especially the intersection with South Tce/Pultney St. Surely a sacrifice of a little bit of the parklands for improved traffic flow could be done.
What sort of fix are you suggesting for the intersection?
And why is this here rather than in the Roads And Traffic thread?
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1739 Post by SRW » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:44 pm

New style bus shelter was installed in front of 63 King William Street last week (or week before). Looks good, more design-y and capital city-y than the ubiquitous Adshels. Hopefully to be rolled out throughout the CBD. Couldn't stop for a photo.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1740 Post by PeFe » Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 pm

From In Daily
Mass DPTI staff shift to SA Public Transport Authority

Hundreds of public servants will soon be transferred to the newly-minted SA Public Transport Authority, kicking off the Marshall Government’s key bureaucratic reform to curb declining patronage.

Image

All current Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure public transport service staff will be transferred to what will be known as the South Australian Public Transport Authority (SAPTA), starting July 1.

The creation of SAPTA – a new division within DPTI responsible for the delivery of all public transport services – was a key Liberal Party election promise, aimed at encouraging a more “customer focussed” culture within the bureaucracy.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said the new agency would re-focus efforts to turn around declining public transport use in South Australia.

We know that over the past three years public transport patronage has been declining,” he said in a statement.

“The establishment of SAPTA will re-focus the agency and look to turn this around.

“We have chosen this model because it allows us to maintain control over our public transport network and reforms.”

He said the shakeup would make public transport service delivery less “disjointed” within the bureaucracy.

“We have chosen this model because it allows us to maintain control over our public transport network and reforms,” said Knoll.

“Also, this model brings together all public transport services under the one roof because under the previous government it was disjointed and spread out across the department.

“We need to provide South Australians with a better experience to encourage people to use our network.”

An expert advisory board will also be set up within SAPTA and a new role, director of customer service and transformation will be advertised.

A job specification document says the director will DPTI will continue to be responsible for driving a “customer-first” culture and supporting SAPTA’s mission to “increase public transport patronage, reduce road congestion and contribute to Adelaide’s vision to become a carbon neutral city”.

Full article : https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2019/ ... authority/
Ok so where are the figures that say that public transport usage has declined in the last 3 years?
There has been no release of theses numbers (as far as I have noticed....)

Passengers numbers on the trains spiked in 2015-2016 after the electrification of the Seaford line and the numbers on the other lines were projecting up as well. Not sure about the bus or tram numbers.

Call me cynical but the transfer of staff from DPTI to the South Australian Transport Authority is worthy of a "Yes Minister" script......a pointless exercise designed to satisfy a political agenda rather than a transport agenda.

And remember the Libs promise to "take politics out of transport planning" by initiating the SATA, well one of the first things Knoll decided that there "would be no more tram extensions"....... A political decision without any reference to transport planners....

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