News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1741 Post by adelaide transport » Fri May 10, 2019 2:37 pm

It will be known as SAPTA.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1742 Post by Norman » Fri May 10, 2019 5:32 pm

PeFe wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Ok so where are the figures that say that public transport usage has declined in the last 3 years?
There has been no release of theses numbers (as far as I have noticed....)
Depends how you look at it. Overall usage has increased, but bus patronage has decreased.

2015-16:
Bus 41.104m
Tram 8.885m
Train 11.367m
Total Initial Boardings* 61.356m

Increase of 0.2%

2016-17:
Bus 51.123m
Tram 9.258m
Train 14.381m
Total Initial Boardings* 74.763m

Decrease of 0.1%

2017-18:
Bus 51,064,602
Tram 9,483,606
Train 14,480,966
Total Initial Boardings* 75,029,174

Increase of 0.4%

*The figures listed above include free travel data.

Why is there a big difference between 2015/16 and 2016/17? No idea. My sources are the DPTI annual reports.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1743 Post by Joelmark » Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm

Some things never really actually change in South Australia - since 1994, Adelaide's public transport has been under various guises including the State Transport Authority (STA), TransAdelaide, the Passenger Transport Board, Adelaide Metro, DPTI and now SAPTA. Meanwhile Adelaide's overall transport usage has remained static or even declined at times, as a proportion of population. There have been potential game-changing "moments" - most of us here will know the Rann Government's commitment to electrify the entire system and build new tramlines in 2007-8, and again start of the Adelink Tram extensions in 2017 with the Botanic Gardens line. Without being too partisan, history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage - think Perth's electrification in the early 90s, Canberra's light rail works, and the current work on Melbourne's new lines and tunnels. Admittedly, the light rail extensions in Sydney are happening under a Lib-Nat government. Adelaide's population is steadily increasing and congestion will only get worse. If the Malinauskas opposition can put together a credible plan to tackle inner city congestion - complete the rail electrification works and build effective light rail lines (Prospect, Norwood and the airport)- it won't harm itself at the 2022 election.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1744 Post by ml69 » Sat May 11, 2019 12:35 am

Joelmark wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Some things never really actually change in South Australia - since 1994, Adelaide's public transport has been under various guises including the State Transport Authority (STA), TransAdelaide, the Passenger Transport Board, Adelaide Metro, DPTI and now SAPTA. Meanwhile Adelaide's overall transport usage has remained static or even declined at times, as a proportion of population. There have been potential game-changing "moments" - most of us here will know the Rann Government's commitment to electrify the entire system and build new tramlines in 2007-8, and again start of the Adelink Tram extensions in 2017 with the Botanic Gardens line. Without being too partisan, history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage - think Perth's electrification in the early 90s, Canberra's light rail works, and the current work on Melbourne's new lines and tunnels. Admittedly, the light rail extensions in Sydney are happening under a Lib-Nat government. Adelaide's population is steadily increasing and congestion will only get worse. If the Malinauskas opposition can put together a credible plan to tackle inner city congestion - complete the rail electrification works and build effective light rail lines (Prospect, Norwood and the airport)- it won't harm itself at the 2022 election.
I don’t think you will get many people arguing against rail electrification. That’s because there are no losers with electrification.

However running tramlines up narrow high-street roads are a different kettle of fish. There will be winners (public transport commuters) and losers (motorists and traders on the tram route during construction). Don’t forget Labor proposed a Norwood tramline during the 2018 state election and it wasn’t really a big vote-winner.

I think a proposal for an underground CBD rail link may be a big vote winner across many electorates. It will significantly improve travel times for many commuters to the CBD. There are no losers from this proposal.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1745 Post by mawsonguy » Sat May 11, 2019 10:14 am

Joelmark wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage ...
I believe that SA's most heavily utilised public transport corridor is the O-Bahn and that was built by the Libs. Given that the Libs have held government in the State for only 12 years out of the last 48 years (and 5 years of that was under Olsen who was completely useless) , it's not surprising that they haven't achieved as much as Labor in public transport. What is surprising is how little Labor achieved prior to the last 7 years under Weatherill.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1746 Post by PeFe » Sat May 11, 2019 12:11 pm

Norman wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:32 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Ok so where are the figures that say that public transport usage has declined in the last 3 years?
There has been no release of theses numbers (as far as I have noticed....)
Depends how you look at it. Overall usage has increased, but bus patronage has decreased.

2015-16:
Bus 41.104m
Tram 8.885m
Train 11.367m
Total Initial Boardings* 61.356m

Increase of 0.2%

2016-17:
Bus 51.123m
Tram 9.258m
Train 14.381m
Total Initial Boardings* 74.763m

Decrease of 0.1%

2017-18:
Bus 51,064,602
Tram 9,483,606
Train 14,480,966
Total Initial Boardings* 75,029,174

Increase of 0.4%

*The figures listed above include free travel data.

Why is there a big difference between 2015/16 and 2016/17? No idea. My sources are the DPTI annual reports.
So total public transport patronage went from 61.3 million in 2015-2016 to 75 million in 2017-2018 !........How is that a "decline in public transport patronage" in the last three years Stephen Knoll ???????

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1747 Post by ml69 » Sat May 11, 2019 1:11 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:11 pm
Norman wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:32 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Ok so where are the figures that say that public transport usage has declined in the last 3 years?
There has been no release of theses numbers (as far as I have noticed....)
Depends how you look at it. Overall usage has increased, but bus patronage has decreased.

2015-16:
Bus 41.104m
Tram 8.885m
Train 11.367m
Total Initial Boardings* 61.356m

Increase of 0.2%

2016-17:
Bus 51.123m
Tram 9.258m
Train 14.381m
Total Initial Boardings* 74.763m

Decrease of 0.1%

2017-18:
Bus 51,064,602
Tram 9,483,606
Train 14,480,966
Total Initial Boardings* 75,029,174

Increase of 0.4%

*The figures listed above include free travel data.

Why is there a big difference between 2015/16 and 2016/17? No idea. My sources are the DPTI annual reports.
So total public transport patronage went from 61.3 million in 2015-2016 to 75 million in 2017-2018 !........How is that a "decline in public transport patronage" in the last three years Stephen Knoll ???????
I find it hard to believe bus patronage jumped 25% between 2015-16 and 2016-17. Perhaps a different methodology was used from 2016-17.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1748 Post by ml69 » Sat May 11, 2019 1:11 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:11 pm
Norman wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:32 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Ok so where are the figures that say that public transport usage has declined in the last 3 years?
There has been no release of theses numbers (as far as I have noticed....)
Depends how you look at it. Overall usage has increased, but bus patronage has decreased.

2015-16:
Bus 41.104m
Tram 8.885m
Train 11.367m
Total Initial Boardings* 61.356m

Increase of 0.2%

2016-17:
Bus 51.123m
Tram 9.258m
Train 14.381m
Total Initial Boardings* 74.763m

Decrease of 0.1%

2017-18:
Bus 51,064,602
Tram 9,483,606
Train 14,480,966
Total Initial Boardings* 75,029,174

Increase of 0.4%

*The figures listed above include free travel data.

Why is there a big difference between 2015/16 and 2016/17? No idea. My sources are the DPTI annual reports.
So total public transport patronage went from 61.3 million in 2015-2016 to 75 million in 2017-2018 !........How is that a "decline in public transport patronage" in the last three years Stephen Knoll ???????
I find it hard to believe bus patronage jumped 25% between 2015-16 and 2016-17. Perhaps a different methodology was used from 2016-17.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1749 Post by Brucetiki » Sun May 12, 2019 2:46 pm

Joelmark wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Some things never really actually change in South Australia - since 1994, Adelaide's public transport has been under various guises including the State Transport Authority (STA), TransAdelaide, the Passenger Transport Board, Adelaide Metro, DPTI and now SAPTA. Meanwhile Adelaide's overall transport usage has remained static or even declined at times, as a proportion of population. There have been potential game-changing "moments" - most of us here will know the Rann Government's commitment to electrify the entire system and build new tramlines in 2007-8, and again start of the Adelink Tram extensions in 2017 with the Botanic Gardens line. Without being too partisan, history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage - think Perth's electrification in the early 90s, Canberra's light rail works, and the current work on Melbourne's new lines and tunnels. Admittedly, the light rail extensions in Sydney are happening under a Lib-Nat government. Adelaide's population is steadily increasing and congestion will only get worse. If the Malinauskas opposition can put together a credible plan to tackle inner city congestion - complete the rail electrification works and build effective light rail lines (Prospect, Norwood and the airport)- it won't harm itself at the 2022 election.
The L2/L3 Sydney Light Rail project has been an unmitigated disaster under the Coalition watch. Sure, the Botanic Gardens/Fesitval Centre extensions finished late here, but that was nothing compared to what's happened in Sydney.

There have been very few successful PT projects the Liberals have done in recent memory (the O-Bahn a rare exception).

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1750 Post by rubberman » Sun May 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 2:46 pm
Joelmark wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Some things never really actually change in South Australia - since 1994, Adelaide's public transport has been under various guises including the State Transport Authority (STA), TransAdelaide, the Passenger Transport Board, Adelaide Metro, DPTI and now SAPTA. Meanwhile Adelaide's overall transport usage has remained static or even declined at times, as a proportion of population. There have been potential game-changing "moments" - most of us here will know the Rann Government's commitment to electrify the entire system and build new tramlines in 2007-8, and again start of the Adelink Tram extensions in 2017 with the Botanic Gardens line. Without being too partisan, history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage - think Perth's electrification in the early 90s, Canberra's light rail works, and the current work on Melbourne's new lines and tunnels. Admittedly, the light rail extensions in Sydney are happening under a Lib-Nat government. Adelaide's population is steadily increasing and congestion will only get worse. If the Malinauskas opposition can put together a credible plan to tackle inner city congestion - complete the rail electrification works and build effective light rail lines (Prospect, Norwood and the airport)- it won't harm itself at the 2022 election.
The L2/L3 Sydney Light Rail project has been an unmitigated disaster under the Coalition watch. Sure, the Botanic Gardens/Fesitval Centre extensions finished late here, but that was nothing compared to what's happened in Sydney.

There have been very few successful PT projects the Liberals have done in recent memory (the O-Bahn a rare exception).
To be fair, I think it's reasonable to suggest that the stuff up in Sydney was due to Transport for NSW being incompetent, or out to deliberately sabotage the government of the day. Just about every decision made at public servant level has turned out to be over the top expensive.

Of course, one can blame governments for the deliberate shedding of departmental skills that led to the debacle. However, both sides were guilty of that.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1751 Post by claybro » Mon May 13, 2019 12:53 pm

ml69 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:35 am
Joelmark wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Some things never really actually change in South Australia - since 1994, Adelaide's public transport has been under various guises including the State Transport Authority (STA), TransAdelaide, the Passenger Transport Board, Adelaide Metro, DPTI and now SAPTA. Meanwhile Adelaide's overall transport usage has remained static or even declined at times, as a proportion of population. There have been potential game-changing "moments" - most of us here will know the Rann Government's commitment to electrify the entire system and build new tramlines in 2007-8, and again start of the Adelink Tram extensions in 2017 with the Botanic Gardens line. Without being too partisan, history here and across all of Australia (usually) shows it is Labor Governments who undertake the works that dramatically increase public transport usage - think Perth's electrification in the early 90s, Canberra's light rail works, and the current work on Melbourne's new lines and tunnels. Admittedly, the light rail extensions in Sydney are happening under a Lib-Nat government. Adelaide's population is steadily increasing and congestion will only get worse. If the Malinauskas opposition can put together a credible plan to tackle inner city congestion - complete the rail electrification works and build effective light rail lines (Prospect, Norwood and the airport)- it won't harm itself at the 2022 election.
I don’t think you will get many people arguing against rail electrification. That’s because there are no losers with electrification.

However running tramlines up narrow high-street roads are a different kettle of fish. There will be winners (public transport commuters) and losers (motorists and traders on the tram route during construction). Don’t forget Labor proposed a Norwood tramline during the 2018 state election and it wasn’t really a big vote-winner.

I think a proposal for an underground CBD rail link may be a big vote winner across many electorates. It will significantly improve travel times for many commuters to the CBD. There are no losers from this proposal.
While I definitely agree that PT advancement best occurs under Labor governments, the assumption that it is a vote winner is not quite so clear. The current WA Labor government took its METRONET rail expansion proposal to the 2014 state election as its big ticket item, and did not win. People really didn't see the value in spending so much money on rail, when the freeways were so clogged (floored logic I know). It took almost the same proposal to the 2017 election and won in a landslide, but that was due to the economic mess caused by the mining downturn, and the previous Liberal government being on the nose. The Metronet proposal really made little difference in either result. Re the underground CBD link in Adelaide, while this is vital in the medium term, once people realise how much it will actually cost, there will be a good old South Australian whinge , as there is not a critical mass of commuters in Adelaide using trains. Start improving the suburban stations, and get more people onto the system, and maybe it will hold more sway at election time.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1752 Post by Alyx » Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 pm


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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1753 Post by gnrc_louis » Tue May 14, 2019 7:57 pm

Alyx wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 pm
Image

Premium article: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 656833a30e
Surely privatizing them would mean the Government (either Federal or State) would then be unlikely to invest into them? Which is desperately needed in both light and heavy rail and would be a terrible outcome for the future of Adelaide's public transport system.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1754 Post by SRW » Tue May 14, 2019 8:05 pm

The short-term budget sugar isn't worth it. We'll ultimately end up subsidising a private company to run a loss-making public service.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1755 Post by claybro » Tue May 14, 2019 8:08 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:57 pm
[quote=Alyx post_id=180373 time=<a href="tel:1557828247">1557828247</a> user_id=304]
Image

Premium article: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 656833a30e
Surely privatizing them would mean the Government (either Federal or State) would then be unlikely to invest into them? Which is desperately needed in both light and heavy rail and would be a terrible outcome for the future of Adelaide's public transport system.
[/quote]

Melbournes PT has been privatised for decades, and it is still one of the best if not the best system in Australia. Private operation and rolling stock should not prevent the government properly funding upgrades. It just depends on the skill of the government in the deals they agree to. A lazy government will just sit back take the cash and spend it elsewhere. A proactive one will use the money raised to further improve infrastructure, and demand the private operator keep the vehicles up to date. If the country rail system in SA is anything to go by, it does not bode well.

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