News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

[rev]

Did you study IT in school at all? .......Smart phones have been around longer then the iPhone from 2007.

I studied English, and I never learned what "longer then" meant

Oh you..

[Vee]

NBN: the more Fibre the better
By Paul Budde

We need a bipartisan policy on the NBN instead of Turnbull's quick fixes which will cost us more both financially and in missed opportunities for Australia.

YOU CAN'T turn the clock back and in the case of the NBN that means you can’t undo those parts of the multi-technology mix (MTM) without immediately destroying billions of dollars. While it is a pity that the original plan – providing fibre-to-the-home to 93 per cent of the population – can’t be continued, the next best thing is to deliver fibre to as many premises as possible, since that could avoid having to replace the MTM in a few years’ time.

According to the well-respected broadband research company Point Topic —

‘Copper-based technologies (DSL, ADSL and ADSL2+) no longer have the dominant share worldwide. In terms of any connection with fibre in the local loop there are now more infrastructure lines in the ground than end-to-end copper.’
In this context, it simply inconceivable that Australia would continue to go against the trend and install more copper connections.

Read on via this link.
Independent Australia:
https://independentaustralia.net/politi ... etter,9118

[Vee]

NBN business model falling apart

Good read by Dr. Mark Gregory (RMIT).
Interesting to see comparison with New Zealand's approach and current rollout.

The telecommunications industry has delivered the Coalition Government and NBN Co a sharp rebuke over the current business model for the National Broadband Network (NBN).

InnovationAus:
http://www.innovationaus.com/2016/09/NB ... ling-apart

[monotonehell]

NBN business model falling apart

Good read by Dr. Mark Gregory (RMIT).
Interesting to see comparison with New Zealand's approach and current rollout.

The telecommunications industry has delivered the Coalition Government and NBN Co a sharp rebuke over the current business model for the National Broadband Network (NBN).

InnovationAus:
http://www.innovationaus.com/2016/09/NB ... ling-apart

Everything people who knew what they were talking about said would happen, has happened.

The Abbott/Turnbull NBNco mess has cost just as much as doing it properly with fiber to the premises, is worth half of what we paid for it, and is not delivering a better outcome than staying with what we had.

When are these people going to be held to account?

[Waewick]

NBN business model falling apart

Good read by Dr. Mark Gregory (RMIT).
Interesting to see comparison with New Zealand's approach and current rollout.

The telecommunications industry has delivered the Coalition Government and NBN Co a sharp rebuke over the current business model for the National Broadband Network (NBN).

InnovationAus:
http://www.innovationaus.com/2016/09/NB ... ling-apart

Everything people who knew what they were talking about said would happen, has happened.

The Abbott/Turnbull NBNco mess has cost just as much as doing it properly with fiber to the premises, is worth half of what we paid for it, and is not delivering a better outcome than staying with what we had.

When are these people going to be held to account?

thing is, you don't know what the full cost of the original plan would have been either.

I've given up on waiting for the NBN,.

[Goodsy]

thing is, you don't know what the full cost of the original plan would have been either.

I've given up on waiting for the NBN,.

The original plan was to be a government run monopoly over telecommunications and would have paid for itself

[Waewick]

thing is, you don't know what the full cost of the original plan would have been either.

I've given up on waiting for the NBN,.

The original plan was to be a government run monopoly over telecommunications and would have paid for itself

Yes but the costs could still have blown out.

[rubberman]

I predict that in four or five years, the private sector will discover problems with upload speeds that will cut into their ability to do business.

At which time they will demand the government "do something about it". At public cost, of course. The various fibre to the node and other obscure technologies will quietly be abandoned, replaced by fibre to the premises. At which time, the total cost will be even worse.

Business will then complain about government inefficiency.
The merchant banks will agitate for sale of the NBN to private enterprise (pocketing hundreds of millions in "consulting" fees).
It will be sold to a company that lets it fall into disrepair the way Telstra did with the copper network.
At which point, business will demand the government "do something about it", at public expense, of course.

[rev]

I predict that in four or five years, the private sector will discover problems with upload speeds that will cut into their ability to do business.

At which time they will demand the government "do something about it". At public cost, of course. The various fibre to the node and other obscure technologies will quietly be abandoned, replaced by fibre to the premises. At which time, the total cost will be even worse.

Business will then complain about government inefficiency.
The merchant banks will agitate for sale of the NBN to private enterprise (pocketing hundreds of millions in "consulting" fees).
It will be sold to a company that lets it fall into disrepair the way Telstra did with the copper network.
At which point, business will demand the government "do something about it", at public expense, of course.

The NBN "network" will probably be sold off to Telstra at some stage, Telstra being our "national" telecommunications provider and all.
Or it will be split and sold off to different telecommunications companies.

NBN Co has dropped Optus' HFC because it's "ageing".
Yet parts of the NBN network still rely on sections of copper.
I don't get it. We are building a new network to replace the old copper network, because the old copper network is ageing and obsolete technology. But the new network uses part of that ageing obsolete technology.
They then drop a third parties network from the new network because it's network is ageing.
Dafuq is going on in this country.

[monotonehell]

thing is, you don't know what the full cost of the original plan would have been either.

I've given up on waiting for the NBN,.

The original plan was to be a government run monopoly over telecommunications and would have paid for itself

Yes but the costs could still have blown out.

All current analysis (with the benefit of hindsight) shows that following the original plan would be around 2 years behind schedule, would be an actual improvement on services, the costs of installations would have reduced, the worth of the entity would be roughly worth the expense paid, and the entity would eventually have paid for itself.

Instead we now have an entity that is on a schedule that keeps being pushed out, that's been valued at around half the expense paid, in many cases provides a worse situation than the existing ADSL, at best provides around the same download speed as ADSL, but slower upload, costs of installations have ballooned due to remediation of copper, equipment and power requirements, and not only wont pay for itself, it's costing suppliers too much to turn a profit, and requires a major cash injection to stay afloat.

This is more than incompetence. This is deliberate. People need to be held to account.

[muzzamo]

at best provides around the same download speed as ADSL, but slower upload

Have to disagree on that point entirely. Typing this on a 74/38 FTTN connection, and work for an organisation that has offices all around the state that will benefit immensely from NBN and the increased uplink speed that it will bring to each site.

[monotonehell]

at best provides around the same download speed as ADSL, but slower upload

Have to disagree on that point entirely. Typing this on a 74/38 FTTN connection, and work for an organisation that has offices all around the state that will benefit immensely from NBN and the increased uplink speed that it will bring to each site.

Because your sample size of one reflects everyone's experience?

Admittedly, people only speak up to complain, and the evidence is anecdotal, but many are reporting poor performance.

[muzzamo]

at best provides around the same download speed as ADSL, but slower upload

Have to disagree on that point entirely. Typing this on a 74/38 FTTN connection, and work for an organisation that has offices all around the state that will benefit immensely from NBN and the increased uplink speed that it will bring to each site.

Because your sample size of one reflects everyone's experience?

Admittedly, people only speak up to complain, and the evidence is anecdotal, but many are reporting poor performance.

You specifically said "at best". My sample size is at least 30 at this point - i've been knee deep in designing a WAN upgrade for a client, and have plenty of data on ADSL, 3G/4G, Telstra ethernet services, Fibre, satellite, you name it.

The average available download speeds on NBN will be significantly quicker than ADSL, and the average upload speeds will be significantly quicker. I would say by a factor of at least 5x faster, and often 10x.

Where the wheels fall off on all this is that the FTTN network has almost no upgrade path - its a lot of money for "only" a 10x increase in speed. For 50-70Billion we should be getting fibre which can be upgraded from 100Mbps to 1GBps to 10GBps and even beyond that with only a change of hardware at either end.

[monotonehell]

...Where the wheels fall off on all this is that the FTTN network has almost no upgrade path - its a lot of money for "only" a 10x increase in speed. For 50-70Billion we should be getting fibre which can be upgraded from 100Mbps to 1GBps to 10GBps and even beyond that with only a change of hardware at either end.

Yeah sorry, run on sentence was running on. I started with "in many cases..." which was to also apply to the "at best" part. Teach me to post quickly before a meeting.

Bottom line. We've paid too much for something which has not put us in a better position; all considered.

[Vee]

New proposed Broadband levy / surcharge / tax - 'RBS' announced.

NBN levy will be an ‘unfair’ cost for customers, consumer advocates say

An NBN levy on Australian broadband companies will be passed on to consumers through higher internet prices, internet consumer advocates claim.

The so-called Regional Broadband Scheme was announced by Communications Minister Mitch Fifield on Monday, just weeks before the government looks certain to miss the deadline for the NBN rollout promised by Malcolm Turnbull three years ago.

Senator Fifield’s office said the $7.30 (per fixed line, per month) connection levy would contribute $40 million annually towards introducing the much-needed NBN to regional areas of Australia, calling it a “fairer” way to spread the cost of the embattled project.

ACCAN response - unfair...

But an Australian Communications Consumer Action Network (ACCAN) spokesperson told The New Daily that the levy could be damaging to poorer consumers.

“Other networks that provide consumers with broadband services, such as mobile and fixed wireless, will not be charged this levy. This is unfair and may create an uncompetitive market.”

"In the long run, funding these services through a levy on the NBN and other fixed networks … may impact low-income consumers who may find services too expensive to afford,” the spokesperson said.

Timing?

A spokeswoman for Senator Fifield denied budget or schedule blowouts, saying the project was now connecting 100,000 homes to the NBN each month.
The senator’s office dodged questions regarding the timing of the levy announcement, including whether it was geared to get lost in December’s political dead zone.

Levy to hit consumers

Under the Regional Broadband Scheme, NBN competitors such as broadband provider TPG will be slugged with a levy of $7.30 per fixed-line connection.

Smaller telcos servicing less than 2000 customers will be exempt from the levy – which will climb to $8 per line in 2022 – as will Telstra and Optus, which are making the transition to the NBN.

Read more -
NewDaily:
http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/201 ... -roll-out/

Another news item - Coalition to introduce broadband surcharge to help pay for rural NBN

Superfast broadband competitors will be charged $7.09 per line a month to help subsidise the cost of regional internet

The Turnbull government is planning to charge competitors to the National Broadband Network a levy to help pay for rural broadband services.

The levy would ensure NBN rivals are unable to cherrypick the most profitable parts of the market, usually in the inner city, and leave NBN Co to wholly subsidise the cost of providing services to rural and remote areas, which is expected to cost about $10bn over the next 30 years.

Consideration of USO? "Bizarre"

Reg Coutts, emeritus professor of telecommunications at Adelaide University, said the unexpected release of the RBS policy separate to the consideration of the universal service obligation was “bizarre”.

.."Releasing this prior to finalisation of the Productivity Commission report on USO is bizarre – it is totally disconnected to other policy, a case of the right hand not knowing what the left one is doing,” Coutts said.

“Why is the government coming out with this method of subsidising and not linking in with the consideration of USO?”

He said the change in technology creating the integration of fixed lines, mobiles and broadband was obvious to both consumers and industry.
“So the government is running behind what industry knows and what the consumer knows.”

Read the full article (includes massive no. of comments - many totally scathing...)
The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -rural-nbn