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Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:17 am
by monotonehell
So they ignored all advice and evidence, went about pursuing a roll out with a technology that was proven to cost more and provide a sub-standard result, allowed competition to roll out their own networks, and are now complaining that they've run out of money?

They've wasted the same amount of money that it would have taken to roll out a proper FTTP NBN and have very little to show for it. Instead of creating an asset worth more than what was spent, they have created a liability that's worth about half what was spent.

They haven't a clue, but think that they are all geniuses, and refuse to seek advice from knowledgeable sources. All while claiming that up is down and the sky is green.

We need a Federal ICAC with teeth to clean out the self-interested cesspool and provide transparent government.

Not going to happen when the ones who can enact the ICAC establishment legislation are the cesspool.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:15 pm
by rubberman
monotonehell wrote:So they ignored all advice and evidence, went about pursuing a roll out with a technology that was proven to cost more and provide a sub-standard result, allowed competition to roll out their own networks, and are now complaining that they've run out of money?

They've wasted the same amount of money that it would have taken to roll out a proper FTTP NBN and have very little to show for it. Instead of creating an asset worth more than what was spent, they have created a liability that's worth about half what was spent.

They haven't a clue, but think that they are all geniuses, and refuse to seek advice from knowledgeable sources. All while claiming that up is down and the sky is green.

We need a Federal ICAC with teeth to clean out the self-interested cesspool and provide transparent government.

Not going to happen when the ones who can enact the ICAC establishment legislation are the cesspool.
While true, the fact is that we voted for them.
There was a clear choice. The objections of those with technical knowhow were posted here and on many many other forums.
We made our choice, and now we will just have to cough up.
Just like we are coughing up for Sydney Airport that's costing travellers more than we sold it for, and no relief in sight.
Just like we are about to lose our AAA credit rating.
Just like we have this huge immigration program that the Federal Government won't provide infrastructure for.
Just like we will continue to be gouged by the banks and insurance companies because there's to be no inquiry into the many examples of bad behaviour.

None of this was secret. We voted. We accept the consequences.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:30 pm
by Archer
rubberman wrote:
While true, the fact is that we voted for them.
There was a clear choice. The objections of those with technical knowhow were posted here and on many many other forums.
We made our choice, and now we will just have to cough up.
Just like we are coughing up for Sydney Airport that's costing travellers more than we sold it for, and no relief in sight.
Just like we are about to lose our AAA credit rating.
Just like we have this huge immigration program that the Federal Government won't provide infrastructure for.
Just like we will continue to be gouged by the banks and insurance companies because there's to be no inquiry into the many examples of bad behaviour.
I think that is a problem with our election system. The NBN was just one of several issues taken to the election and to believe that the election result is an accurate representation of what the country wanted for each policy is crazy. I believe that the other issues taken to the election are what determined the result and the NBN was just along for the ride. Had we been able to vote for individual policies rather than just for political party's, I think we would have a very different NBN now.
None of this was secret. We voted. We accept the consequences.
We were screwed by politicians who knew better but towed the party line and an electoral system that limits our ability to have our voices truly heard. I don't know about you, but the NBN we're getting is not the NBN I voted for.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:28 pm
by monotonehell
rubberman wrote:While true, the fact is that we voted for them.
What do you mean "we", white man? :lol:

The idea that <insert name here> won the election, so we should just shut up about it is wrong. We are well within our rights to continue to petition our representatives in Parliament.

Further, the Coalition went to the election with certain promises about the NBN. All of which they have failed to deliver - despite being advised by many people who knew what they were talking about along the way, they continued their economic vandalism. We are well within our rights to be vocal about these things.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:21 pm
by rubberman
monotonehell wrote:
rubberman wrote:While true, the fact is that we voted for them.
What do you mean "we", white man? :lol:

The idea that <insert name here> won the election, so we should just shut up about it is wrong. We are well within our rights to continue to petition our representatives in Parliament.

Further, the Coalition went to the election with certain promises about the NBN. All of which they have failed to deliver - despite being advised by many people who knew what they were talking about along the way, they continued their economic vandalism. We are well within our rights to be vocal about these things.

Well, let me explain. You were calling for a Federal ICAC in respect of this matter. My response was partly targeted at that. If the electorate, in possession of the facts, voted for the party proposing the present clusterf***, then there's no role for an ICAC. It was a clear choice, the electorate made its choice, and under our system the losers get to suck it up for three years, and then try again should they wish to. However, it's not corrupt, so an ICAC serves no purpose. Now, if you were proposing an Independent Commission Against Incompetence, that might have a point.

And yes, of course you have every right to be vocal, and see if that makes a difference in 2019.

The people who fell for the BS about this NBN version being cheaper and quicker and just as good, made an error of judgement. Unfortunately, because we are in a democracy, we all end up paying.

Archer, yes there were a lot of issues at the last election. So, I listed enough of them in my post to point out that was the case.

I'm still waiting to see if that Jobson Grothe character makes an appearance sometime.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:53 pm
by citywatcher
Who's to say there wasn't corruption involved. It certainly has a whiff of it. That's why the ICAC is there.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:05 pm
by rev
monotonehell wrote:So they ignored all advice and evidence, went about pursuing a roll out with a technology that was proven to cost more and provide a sub-standard result, allowed competition to roll out their own networks, and are now complaining that they've run out of money?

They've wasted the same amount of money that it would have taken to roll out a proper FTTP NBN and have very little to show for it. Instead of creating an asset worth more than what was spent, they have created a liability that's worth about half what was spent.

They haven't a clue, but think that they are all geniuses, and refuse to seek advice from knowledgeable sources. All while claiming that up is down and the sky is green.

We need a Federal ICAC with teeth to clean out the self-interested cesspool and provide transparent government.

Not going to happen when the ones who can enact the ICAC establishment legislation are the cesspool.
An ICAC? They'll just appoint one of their mates to head an ICAC.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:42 am
by monotonehell
rev wrote:
monotonehell wrote:Not going to happen when the ones who can enact the ICAC establishment legislation are the cesspool.
An ICAC? They'll just appoint one of their mates to head an ICAC.
Yep like I said. Needs to have teeth and be independent of the party machine.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:48 pm
by Vee
Damning indictment of Turnbull’s MTM NBN - a ‘colossal mistake’.

Turnbull's Two Speed society.....
By Quentin Dempster in New Daily.
On the National Broadband Network Mr Turnbull has led us up the sub-optimal garden path.
... It is proving to be increasingly costly as recent decisions to underwrite an extra $19.5billion in government borrowings to complete Mr Turnbull’s MTM (copper dependant multi-technology mix) rollout have indicated.

To counter internet corporation TPG’s aggressive fibre rollout to create its own discreet market of city apartment buildings, the government, by legislation, is proposing a $7.30 a month ‘levy’ to discourage this wholesale competitor.

The government is arguing a level playing field is needed because NBN expensively has to service regional users.
Oz falling behind
As the rest of the world moves to gigabit per second internet capability, for the foreseeable future Australia will be left to wallow in poorer performance. Pretty soon the median internet speeds of 25 to 50 Mb/s or even up to 100 Mb/s promised with a fully-rolled out MTM will be old hat.

Post mining boom there has been an urgent need to create the ‘new Australian jobs and industries’ of the 21st century. Just what sort of new jobs and industries are possible for a country with 24 million ... nobody knows for sure. 

We need a world-leading national broadband network, to enable Australians, wherever they live on this vast continent, to educate themselves to the highest standards and to engage the digital revolution to compete in China, India, South Korea, Japan, Indonesia and the other emerging south-east Asian economies.
National infrastructure (high speed broadband) is good for regions, business re-locations from congested, costly cities!
High-speed broadband with massive capacity data download/upload could transform regional Australia through business re-location, as congestion and extortionate property prices are making starting up and doing business from Australian capital cities prohibitive.
The ‘lucky’ list in technologically divided Australia
1.4 million 'haves' ...
At June 30, 2016, 1.4 million premises of a total of 11.9 million have access to high-speed fibre to the premises (FTTP).
Difficult, costly to fix MTM mess.
.... this would be mere debate if the node/copper technology was easily upgradable to FTTP. Tragically it is not, without significant additional capital expenditure.

Unless they are greenfield housing and commercial/industrial developments, all remaining ‘brownfield’ rollout looks like being in the slower node/copper or old pay TV cable technology.
Mr Turnbull’s ‘colossal mistake’
Innovation?
In the July 2 federal election campaign Mr Turnbull promised Australians a first-world “new economy” through “innovation”. But the prime ministerial rhetoric never went beyond this aspirational flourish.

Quigley said....
“It is not surprising that people would have been convinced that a change to an MTM based NBN would save a lot of time and money. But as we now know, those original MTM estimates were a fiction."

“Within only a few months the estimated MTM costs had increased dramatically and the 25Mb/s to every premise in Australia by the end of 2016 was abandoned.
FTTP technology:
There had been rapid improvements in FTTP technology with lower diameter or ‘skinny fibre’, new joint enclosures, new splitter technology and improved connection methods reducing both cost and construction times.

In a big counter-punch Mr Quigley has in effect delivered this indictment of Mr Turnbull: “But what is clear is that every forecast regarding the NBN that the Coalition has made, for which there is now data, whether for their own MTM or for the original FTTP plan – every one of them has been wrong.”

Mr Quigley quoted the American AT&T’s submission to the US Federal Communications Commission declaring the future was FTTP. That was why in the US and Asia the debate was now about Gigabit per second speeds, not whether 25 or 50 Mb/s was merely “sufficient.”
New Daily:
http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national ... -turnbull/

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:49 pm
by Vee
NBN - still waiting, hopeful, depressed?
If you have not got the NBN (whatever version) at your home or business and have not checked the map lately, it has changed. Use the check your address link to see how you fare.

NBN updates rollout info for most Australians. Greater transparency?!?
But you don't know what you will be getting (if NOT on the latest map, it's likely it's Telstra's HFC)!
ZDNET:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/nbn-update ... stralians/

Check your address - NBNCo:
http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or ... dress.html

Checked mine - not for some time and no idea what. Checked for a relative - the old 'rollout by 2020' line - looks like they will get the crappy, ageing Telstra HFC.

Meanwhile, other nations are moving ahead with FttP and our broadband speeds go lower by international comparison. And Australia gets a digital divide MTM.
Agile and innovative?

FTTdp
ITNews also has an item on the latest FTTdp deployment - to certain suburbs in Melbourne and Sydney.
It avoids the need for a (powered) node cabinet providing fibre to the kerb ... then it's copper.
Under FTTdp, fibre is run to the front of a home or business using an existing copper cable for the lead-in. A distribution point unit is used for the fibre-to-copper connection, powered by the customer's premise, avoiding the cost of an FTTN cabinet.
ITNews:
http://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-cos-f ... rne-445556

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:20 pm
by drsmith
An alternative to the NBN map is this,

https://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/r ... atus/build

The build listing hasn't updated (had new entries) for a while and other catagories may be the same in that regard. Probably will be updated soon.

Want faster speed?
By day, 20-year-old Robin Singh stacks shelves at his local Woolworths. By night, he roams the internet at 150mbps.
Mr Singh achieved his speeds thanks to his next-door neighbour, a family friend, who has an NBN connection and a wireless network.

With his neighbour's permission, Mr Singh installed a simple program on his own computer that logged onto his neighbour's new Wi-Fi and "bonded" it with his own wired NBN connection. The result: 150-megabit speeds.

"It was fairly easy", he shrugs, pointing to several pieces of software that could make the join work.

Jonathan Russell's technique is even simpler. Mr Russell, a 36-year-old graphic and web designer who runs the TechWizTime Youtube channel, always had two internet connections at his Wollongong property, which he bonded for additional speed.

When the NBN arrived in his suburb, he simply asked his retailer to upgrade both connections to fibre
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/techno ... tmea3.html

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:36 am
by monotonehell
NBNco keep removing information from their website.

First it was roll out information (hey look it's way past 2017 and we still don't have an anywhere near complete NBN)
Then they altered their plans to reflect their inability to supply data at broadband speeds.
Now they've removed which technology you can expect on what's left of their roll out plans.

So now people intending to buy/rent in areas wont know whether to expect fibre to the node or five fingers across the face.

Seriously, the LNP have destroyed this project, we are now worse off than when we started and in the red to to tune of billions.

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:51 am
by ChillyPhilly
monotonehell wrote:NBNco keep removing information from their website.

First it was roll out information (hey look it's way past 2017 and we still don't have an anywhere near complete NBN)
Then they altered their plans to reflect their inability to supply data at broadband speeds.
Now they've removed which technology you can expect on what's left of their roll out plans.

So now people intending to buy/rent in areas wont know whether to expect fibre to the node or five fingers across the face.

Seriously, the LNP have destroyed this project, we are now worse off than when we started and in the red to to tune of billions.
You can thank Mr Turnbull.


Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:22 am
by how good is he
I also had an interesting conversation with someone involved in the NBN. He predicts/expects a few years after its complete (ie 5-10 years from now) that it will get privatised. That is, the govt will just auction it off to the highest bidder (or via a share market float). The likely sale price would be in the billions. So then for it to give a decent return/profit expect the cost of the NBN to skyrocket (no longer artificially supported). What's also likely is it will be owned by an overseas (Telco) company. Thoughts?

Re: News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:27 am
by bits
how good is he wrote: What's also likely is it will be owned by an overseas (Telco) company. Thoughts?
Telstra are surely cashed up with NBN money for their assets and have experience.
I would assume Telstra will buy it.