[U/C] North-South Motorway

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
User avatar
ChillyPhilly
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 pm
Location: Adder-Laid, South Australia.
Has thanked: 271 times
Been thanked: 420 times
Contact:

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2716 Post by ChillyPhilly » Fri May 11, 2018 9:38 pm

aceman wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:49 pm
i know this is looking further ahead but what do u guys think will happen at the cross road south road intersection where u have to factor in the railway line? I drive through there almost daily and everytime I go onto the overpass I try to work out how it will work there.
The plan is to duplicate the existing overpass, likely to the west.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

Patrick_27
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm
Location: Adelaide CBD, SA
Been thanked: 216 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2717 Post by Patrick_27 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:50 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:38 pm
aceman wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:49 pm
i know this is looking further ahead but what do u guys think will happen at the cross road south road intersection where u have to factor in the railway line? I drive through there almost daily and everytime I go onto the overpass I try to work out how it will work there.
The plan is to duplicate the existing overpass, likely to the west.
Impossible because the tramline runs diagonally, I'm of the understanding that the elevated road planned from Daws Road will run over this section then come down before the tramline.

Archer
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:44 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2718 Post by Archer » Fri May 11, 2018 11:22 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:50 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:38 pm
aceman wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:49 pm
i know this is looking further ahead but what do u guys think will happen at the cross road south road intersection where u have to factor in the railway line? I drive through there almost daily and everytime I go onto the overpass I try to work out how it will work there.
The plan is to duplicate the existing overpass, likely to the west.
Impossible because the tramline runs diagonally, I'm of the understanding that the elevated road planned from Daws Road will run over this section then come down before the tramline.
It would hardly be impossible, It would just need to be offset against the existing overpass to account for the angle of the train line and have the overall bridge spans be longer to account for the greater length required to cross the angle of the train line and Cross road. Everything I've read (all from these forums) has suggested the overpass be duplicated, whether that's incorporated into an elevated road way from Dawes road as well.... who knows at this point?

I think the better question is will there also be a grade separation of Cross road and the train line at the same time. I imagine this could potentially be more difficult/costly to do after the works for the North-South corridor are completed.

alexczarn
Gold-Member ;)
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:13 am
Has thanked: 93 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2719 Post by alexczarn » Sat May 12, 2018 6:47 am

Archer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:22 pm
Patrick_27 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:50 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:38 pm


The plan is to duplicate the existing overpass, likely to the west.
Impossible because the tramline runs diagonally, I'm of the understanding that the elevated road planned from Daws Road will run over this section then come down before the tramline.
It would hardly be impossible, It would just need to be offset against the existing overpass to account for the angle of the train line and have the overall bridge spans be longer to account for the greater length required to cross the angle of the train line and Cross road. Everything I've read (all from these forums) has suggested the overpass be duplicated, whether that's incorporated into an elevated road way from Dawes road as well.... who knows at this point?

I think the better question is will there also be a grade separation of Cross road and the train line at the same time. I imagine this could potentially be more difficult/costly to do after the works for the North-South corridor are completed.
Drop the Seaford line into a tunnel underneath the whole interchange so there's only the Sth Rd/Cross Rd diamond?

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5697
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 775 times
Been thanked: 1413 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2720 Post by Norman » Sat May 12, 2018 7:30 am

The plan includes putting the Seaford and Tonsley lines into a trench. I think the cost for that was about $200m, not sure if that includes the duplicated bridge though.

claybro
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 219 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2721 Post by claybro » Sat May 12, 2018 9:35 am

Norman wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:30 am
The plan includes putting the Seaford and Tonsley lines into a trench. I think the cost for that was about $200m, not sure if that includes the duplicated bridge though.
As Cross road is the preferred option for eventual connection of the Mount Barker freeway and the North/Sourh motorway, this intersection will eventually be a major interchange. This probably is 20 years away, but it highlights the usual SA folly of not having a long term plan, as it will probably not be taken into consideration during this part of upgrades.

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 84 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2722 Post by SBD » Sat May 12, 2018 10:42 am

claybro wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:35 am
Norman wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:30 am
The plan includes putting the Seaford and Tonsley lines into a trench. I think the cost for that was about $200m, not sure if that includes the duplicated bridge though.
As Cross road is the preferred option for eventual connection of the Mount Barker freeway and the North/South motorway, this intersection will eventually be a major interchange. This probably is 20 years away, but it highlights the usual SA folly of not having a long term plan, as it will probably not be taken into consideration during this part of upgrades.
What do you think is an acceptable long-term plan?

A high-speed interchange the size of the intersection of Northern Connector and Port River Expressway translated to South and Cross Roads looks like it would consume about 50 houses, as well as the businesses fronting the main roads. The MATS Plan was killed off in part for proposing an intersection that size in Hindmarsh. It didn't put one in Clarence Gardens because the connections would have all been in different places. I think the connection might have been closer to Upper Sturt Road.

By the time that the North-South Corridor is almost complete, we could well have a few elections fought on NIMBY where the Portrush Road corridor and Cross Road corridor are both supporting whoever promises them "somewhere else".

I doubt many people are good enough at future technology forecasting to know what transport will look like by the time we can afford to buy that much property and build the interchange anyway. It might not be using internal combustion engines burning fossil fuel to tow one or two trailers per truck. By then, the preferred solution for heavy freight might not be the long smooth climb/descent through the Heysen Tunnels. We might well decide the East-of-the-hills bypass is a better solution, or that freight should all move on the electric railway through the tunnel from Monarto to Pooraka.

rev
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 408 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2723 Post by rev » Sat May 12, 2018 11:21 am

SBD wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:42 am
claybro wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:35 am
Norman wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:30 am
The plan includes putting the Seaford and Tonsley lines into a trench. I think the cost for that was about $200m, not sure if that includes the duplicated bridge though.
As Cross road is the preferred option for eventual connection of the Mount Barker freeway and the North/South motorway, this intersection will eventually be a major interchange. This probably is 20 years away, but it highlights the usual SA folly of not having a long term plan, as it will probably not be taken into consideration during this part of upgrades.
What do you think is an acceptable long-term plan?

A high-speed interchange the size of the intersection of Northern Connector and Port River Expressway translated to South and Cross Roads looks like it would consume about 50 houses, as well as the businesses fronting the main roads. The MATS Plan was killed off in part for proposing an intersection that size in Hindmarsh. It didn't put one in Clarence Gardens because the connections would have all been in different places. I think the connection might have been closer to Upper Sturt Road.

By the time that the North-South Corridor is almost complete, we could well have a few elections fought on NIMBY where the Portrush Road corridor and Cross Road corridor are both supporting whoever promises them "somewhere else".

I doubt many people are good enough at future technology forecasting to know what transport will look like by the time we can afford to buy that much property and build the interchange anyway. It might not be using internal combustion engines burning fossil fuel to tow one or two trailers per truck. By then, the preferred solution for heavy freight might not be the long smooth climb/descent through the Heysen Tunnels. We might well decide the East-of-the-hills bypass is a better solution, or that freight should all move on the electric railway through the tunnel from Monarto to Pooraka.
The problem isn't that the state can't afford to do it, they very much can by borrowing. The problem is we do not have politicians who are competent enough to run this state, to build this states infrastructure and manage the economy.

Goodsy
Legendary Member!
Posts: 949
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:39 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 160 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2724 Post by Goodsy » Sat May 12, 2018 1:11 pm

rev wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:21 am
SBD wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:42 am
claybro wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:35 am


As Cross road is the preferred option for eventual connection of the Mount Barker freeway and the North/South motorway, this intersection will eventually be a major interchange. This probably is 20 years away, but it highlights the usual SA folly of not having a long term plan, as it will probably not be taken into consideration during this part of upgrades.
What do you think is an acceptable long-term plan?

A high-speed interchange the size of the intersection of Northern Connector and Port River Expressway translated to South and Cross Roads looks like it would consume about 50 houses, as well as the businesses fronting the main roads. The MATS Plan was killed off in part for proposing an intersection that size in Hindmarsh. It didn't put one in Clarence Gardens because the connections would have all been in different places. I think the connection might have been closer to Upper Sturt Road.

By the time that the North-South Corridor is almost complete, we could well have a few elections fought on NIMBY where the Portrush Road corridor and Cross Road corridor are both supporting whoever promises them "somewhere else".

I doubt many people are good enough at future technology forecasting to know what transport will look like by the time we can afford to buy that much property and build the interchange anyway. It might not be using internal combustion engines burning fossil fuel to tow one or two trailers per truck. By then, the preferred solution for heavy freight might not be the long smooth climb/descent through the Heysen Tunnels. We might well decide the East-of-the-hills bypass is a better solution, or that freight should all move on the electric railway through the tunnel from Monarto to Pooraka.
The problem isn't that the state can't afford to do it, they very much can by borrowing. The problem is we do not have politicians who are competent enough to run this state, to build this states infrastructure and manage the economy.
The funding will be, 50% federal, 25% state and 25% Transurban with a 100 year lease and $7.50 toll

Spurdo
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:20 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 60 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2725 Post by Spurdo » Sat May 12, 2018 2:54 pm

Hold up, I think I've got a solution :lol:
Attachments
qwerty.PNG
qwerty.PNG (555.06 KiB) Viewed 1405 times

Patrick_27
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm
Location: Adelaide CBD, SA
Been thanked: 216 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2726 Post by Patrick_27 » Sat May 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:11 pm
rev wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:21 am
SBD wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:42 am


What do you think is an acceptable long-term plan?

A high-speed interchange the size of the intersection of Northern Connector and Port River Expressway translated to South and Cross Roads looks like it would consume about 50 houses, as well as the businesses fronting the main roads. The MATS Plan was killed off in part for proposing an intersection that size in Hindmarsh. It didn't put one in Clarence Gardens because the connections would have all been in different places. I think the connection might have been closer to Upper Sturt Road.

By the time that the North-South Corridor is almost complete, we could well have a few elections fought on NIMBY where the Portrush Road corridor and Cross Road corridor are both supporting whoever promises them "somewhere else".

I doubt many people are good enough at future technology forecasting to know what transport will look like by the time we can afford to buy that much property and build the interchange anyway. It might not be using internal combustion engines burning fossil fuel to tow one or two trailers per truck. By then, the preferred solution for heavy freight might not be the long smooth climb/descent through the Heysen Tunnels. We might well decide the East-of-the-hills bypass is a better solution, or that freight should all move on the electric railway through the tunnel from Monarto to Pooraka.
The problem isn't that the state can't afford to do it, they very much can by borrowing. The problem is we do not have politicians who are competent enough to run this state, to build this states infrastructure and manage the economy.
The funding will be, 50% federal, 25% state and 25% Transurban with a 100 year lease and $7.50 toll
Since when was tolls a thing in all of this?

Patrick_27
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm
Location: Adelaide CBD, SA
Been thanked: 216 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2727 Post by Patrick_27 » Sat May 12, 2018 8:36 pm

Cross Road doesn't even need to be a consideration, freeway grade city ring route, trench freeway up Glen Osmond Road, problem solved.

Goodsy
Legendary Member!
Posts: 949
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:39 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 160 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2728 Post by Goodsy » Sat May 12, 2018 8:50 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Since when was tolls a thing in all of this?
It's not yet, but if I was a betting man I'd say they're going to atleast try it

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 84 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2729 Post by SBD » Sat May 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:36 pm
Cross Road doesn't even need to be a consideration, freeway grade city ring route, trench freeway up Glen Osmond Road, problem solved.
That plan still extends the long descent even further, and means that when a truck or bus with failing brakes eventually hits something, it's in a tunnel. Maybe the off-ramp exits can be built with gravel pits next to them as emergency stopping ramps, but that sounds like a challenge to build and maintain, as well as needing more width in a constrained corridor.

User avatar
SRW
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 2461
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:42 pm
Location: City
Has thanked: 566 times
Been thanked: 261 times

[U/C] Re: News & Discussion: South Road / North-South Corridor

#2730 Post by SRW » Sat May 12, 2018 11:27 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:50 pm
Patrick_27 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Since when was tolls a thing in all of this?
It's not yet, but if I was a betting man I'd say they're going to atleast try it
Tolls will very much be a part of the thinking now. The prohibition on their use was State Labor's; the federal Libs support them, and their state colleagues are naturally inclined to let private money get their hands on public goods. The only barrier will be how pissed off South Australians get, having never had to deal with tolls. For the record, I think tolls are reasonable in specific circumstances. I think the Southern Expressway duplication, as an example, should have been paid for by making it a tollway.
Keep Adelaide Weird

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jipsonburger and 9 guests