[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4471 Post by croweater888 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:27 am

Driving safely at speed from Victor Harbour to Gawler without any traffic lights?

We're through the looking glass here people.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4472 Post by rev » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:34 am

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:35 am
rev wrote:
Norman wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:05 pm
The traffic volumes would not justify having such a freeway for decades to come. They haven't even duplicated Victor Harbor Road yet!
Yeh.
Main South Road duplicated for its entirety to Aldinga, and Victor Harbor Road full duplication to Victor. Remove as many intersections/junctions as practical or necessary with overpasses/ramps like done at McLaren Vale.
And general improvement/widening/overpasess etc on rural highways like the Copper Coast highway.. We want our regions to grow, they need proper & improve infrastructure.
Would rather invest in rail to meet these transport demands.
And tell me, why can't rail be included along side these highways?
Why does it always have to be one or the other, why not both? Like the NC project, they stuffed up by not including the rail component originally shown.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4473 Post by rev » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:13 am

I wonder sometimes if South Australians realize how far behind this state has fallen.
You can drive non stop, at speed, on freeways from Geelong through Melbourne to Wodonga/Albury on the Vic/NSW Border.
Or how about Ballarat through Melbourne including the Citylink Tunnel, to Warragul and further..?

I know, mind blowing. And the state of those roads is above and beyond what you will find in this state.

Some people might see it just as roads, not that important, public transport is more important blah blah. But it's these sorts of things, the lack of infrastructure, the pathetic state of existing infrastructure, that forms the core of the stigma against this state, and I'm not talking about the common person thinking SA is a backwater where nothing happens.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4474 Post by how good is he » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:59 pm

While I totally agree and your points about our roads etc are valid, you also need to consider that you are comparing us with a population 4x our size and with Govt [State and Federal] revenue and funding maybe 10x what we get. So if our state had say an extra $5 billion every year [as an example], I am sure we would also get far better roads & infrastructure also.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4475 Post by claybro » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:41 pm

how good is he wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:59 pm
While I totally agree and your points about our roads etc are valid, you also need to consider that you are comparing us with a population 4x our size and with Govt [State and Federal] revenue and funding maybe 10x what we get. So if our state had say an extra $5 billion every year [as an example], I am sure we would also get far better roads & infrastructure also.
Yes and no. There will be federal, and private stimulus funds awash when all this virus stuff is over. The Feds will ask/beg SA for a lust of road projects just as has happenened multiple times before. The SA government will hand over the back of its Coopers beer coaster with a vague diagram about a N/S route through Adelaides west... and Victoria will get the cash.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4476 Post by how good is he » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:48 pm

Fair point if our business plans or projects aren't shovel ready anyway for the funding. But my point is if we had a bigger population & State revenue we wouldn't have to rely on business plans/Federal funds/handouts as much in the first place. Even with the cost/benefit analysis of each project we have to compete for Federal funds against the other bigger States who invariably take a higher priority [bigger population, bigger congestion, higher cost/benefit]. So it's hard to even compete for these Federal funds and the bottom line is we miss out. My point is our inherent smaller population & revenue.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4477 Post by claybro » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:11 pm

how good is he wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Fair point if our business plans or projects aren't shovel ready anyway for the funding. But my point is if we had a bigger population & State revenue we wouldn't have to rely on business plans/Federal funds/handouts as much in the first place. Even with the cost/benefit analysis of each project we have to compete for Federal funds against the other bigger States who invariably take a higher priority [bigger population, bigger congestion, higher cost/benefit]. So it's hard to even compete for these Federal funds and the bottom line is we miss out. My point is our inherent smaller population & revenue.
[/

Every state relies heavily on Federal funds as a percentage of the total spend. That Adelaide still has only 1 electrified train line out of 5,(How many options have been proposed for OH now?) and is the only mainland capital without a cross suburban freeway, is a result of decades of inaction, indecision and internal politicking. To clarify.. there have been numerous requests by Infrastructure Australia, to the SA governments of both persuasions for formal plans for infrastructure to fund.... cue crickets.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4478 Post by SBD » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:23 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:13 am
I wonder sometimes if South Australians realize how far behind this state has fallen.
You can drive non stop, at speed, on freeways from Geelong through Melbourne to Wodonga/Albury on the Vic/NSW Border.
Or how about Ballarat through Melbourne including the Citylink Tunnel, to Warragul and further..?

I know, mind blowing. And the state of those roads is above and beyond what you will find in this state.

Some people might see it just as roads, not that important, public transport is more important blah blah. But it's these sorts of things, the lack of infrastructure, the pathetic state of existing infrastructure, that forms the core of the stigma against this state, and I'm not talking about the common person thinking SA is a backwater where nothing happens.
How many hours of the day can I drive non-stop between Geelong and Pakenham (M1 motorway through Melbourne)?

Our Northern Connector means that I can now get to the traffic jam sooner, but Melbourne having the freeway all the way through hasn't completely eliminated the traffic jam either, has it?

I'd like to see "shovel-ready" detailed plans for the rest of the NS Motorway, and more confidence that there are plans being prepared for linking it to the SE Freeway, at least to choosing one or two viable solutions from the six or so broad possibilities, and developing those two for further analysis. Maybe they wouldn't be built for ten or 20 years, but it would be nice to feel like there is a plan, and the smaller bits of work contribute to the larger plan.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4479 Post by rev » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:31 pm

how good is he wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:59 pm
While I totally agree and your points about our roads etc are valid, you also need to consider that you are comparing us with a population 4x our size and with Govt [State and Federal] revenue and funding maybe 10x what we get. So if our state had say an extra $5 billion every year [as an example], I am sure we would also get far better roads & infrastructure also.
The population gap wasn't always that big. And the population size doesn't mean our roads & infrastructure should be as in bad of a state as they are.
Granted we don't need freeways to the extent of Melbourne, not only because of our population size, but also because of the differences in the layout/spread of both cities.

It's an absolute disgrace that we have waited this long for the NS corridor, and an even bigger disgrace that we don't even have a vague completion date for the final sections.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4480 Post by rev » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:38 pm

SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:23 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:13 am
I wonder sometimes if South Australians realize how far behind this state has fallen.
You can drive non stop, at speed, on freeways from Geelong through Melbourne to Wodonga/Albury on the Vic/NSW Border.
Or how about Ballarat through Melbourne including the Citylink Tunnel, to Warragul and further..?

I know, mind blowing. And the state of those roads is above and beyond what you will find in this state.

Some people might see it just as roads, not that important, public transport is more important blah blah. But it's these sorts of things, the lack of infrastructure, the pathetic state of existing infrastructure, that forms the core of the stigma against this state, and I'm not talking about the common person thinking SA is a backwater where nothing happens.
How many hours of the day can I drive non-stop between Geelong and Pakenham (M1 motorway through Melbourne)?

Our Northern Connector means that I can now get to the traffic jam sooner, but Melbourne having the freeway all the way through hasn't completely eliminated the traffic jam either, has it?

I'd like to see "shovel-ready" detailed plans for the rest of the NS Motorway, and more confidence that there are plans being prepared for linking it to the SE Freeway, at least to choosing one or two viable solutions from the six or so broad possibilities, and developing those two for further analysis. Maybe they wouldn't be built for ten or 20 years, but it would be nice to feel like there is a plan, and the smaller bits of work contribute to the larger plan.
Geelong to Pakenham, an hour and 45 minutes. 116km distance.
Gawler to Aldinga (using the NC) an hour and 30 minutes. 90.9 km distance.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4481 Post by d3v310per » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:22 pm

claybro wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:41 pm
how good is he wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:59 pm
While I totally agree and your points about our roads etc are valid, you also need to consider that you are comparing us with a population 4x our size and with Govt [State and Federal] revenue and funding maybe 10x what we get. So if our state had say an extra $5 billion every year [as an example], I am sure we would also get far better roads & infrastructure also.
Yes and no. There will be federal, and private stimulus funds awash when all this virus stuff is over. The Feds will ask/beg SA for a lust of road projects just as has happenened multiple times before. The SA government will hand over the back of its Coopers beer coaster with a vague diagram about a N/S route through Adelaides west... and Victoria will get the cash.
Unfortunately this happens time and time again. It’s incredible how the S.A. Government takes so long to put together business cases for this stuff. No sense of urgency at all.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4482 Post by SBD » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:35 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:38 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:23 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:13 am
I wonder sometimes if South Australians realize how far behind this state has fallen.
You can drive non stop, at speed, on freeways from Geelong through Melbourne to Wodonga/Albury on the Vic/NSW Border.
Or how about Ballarat through Melbourne including the Citylink Tunnel, to Warragul and further..?

I know, mind blowing. And the state of those roads is above and beyond what you will find in this state.

Some people might see it just as roads, not that important, public transport is more important blah blah. But it's these sorts of things, the lack of infrastructure, the pathetic state of existing infrastructure, that forms the core of the stigma against this state, and I'm not talking about the common person thinking SA is a backwater where nothing happens.
How many hours of the day can I drive non-stop between Geelong and Pakenham (M1 motorway through Melbourne)?

Our Northern Connector means that I can now get to the traffic jam sooner, but Melbourne having the freeway all the way through hasn't completely eliminated the traffic jam either, has it?

I'd like to see "shovel-ready" detailed plans for the rest of the NS Motorway, and more confidence that there are plans being prepared for linking it to the SE Freeway, at least to choosing one or two viable solutions from the six or so broad possibilities, and developing those two for further analysis. Maybe they wouldn't be built for ten or 20 years, but it would be nice to feel like there is a plan, and the smaller bits of work contribute to the larger plan.
Geelong to Pakenham, an hour and 45 minutes. 116km distance.
Gawler to Aldinga (using the NC) an hour and 30 minutes. 90.9 km distance.
So - the Adelaide example is 25km less in 15 minutes less. If we extend it to Nuriootpa to Aldinga, we get 120km. Google maps says it's 2:01 at present. including 31 minutes delay due to roadworks. 1:40 in the other direction right now. That's Aldinga to Nuriootpa using Main South Road is 4km further and 5 minutes less time than Geelong to Pakenham, despite 20 or so sets of traffic lights not being removed from the middle bits yet, two sections of roadworks, and 15km of new freeway limited to 80km/h.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4483 Post by OlympusAnt » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:36 pm

We only have one super marginal federal seat. This makes it harder to get federal money. It's always been like that.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4484 Post by TorrensSA » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:30 pm

Doing the maths on Google maps for trips; Pakenham to Corio 120km about 90min and Aldinga to Nuriootpa 120km about 90min. I was actually shocked that Geelong to Pakenham is only 120km. It's crazy how long Adelaide is 100km from Sellicks Beach to Hewett. Greater Melbourne stretches well over 100km from many extremes to another: but it's a very grey area where "Melbourne" ends - it's like do we call Freeling a suburb in Greater Adelaide. Adelaide is long overdue for a N-S freeway and it should be a national infrastructure priority and we should get more money for it from the commonwealth, more than we would be entitled to - we need to catch up.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4485 Post by d3v310per » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:49 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Doing the maths on Google maps for trips; Pakenham to Corio 120km about 90min and Aldinga to Nuriootpa 120km about 90min. I was actually shocked that Geelong to Pakenham is only 120km. It's crazy how long Adelaide is 100km from Sellicks Beach to Hewett. Greater Melbourne stretches well over 100km from many extremes to another: but it's a very grey area where "Melbourne" ends - it's like do we call Freeling a suburb in Greater Adelaide. Adelaide is long overdue for a N-S freeway and it should be a national infrastructure priority and we should get more money for it from the commonwealth, more than we would be entitled to - we need to catch up.
We, as in the SA Government, need to get organised and do the business case. But yeah totally agree we need to catch up and get it done. Way too many crickets chirping in the offices of DPTI

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