[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
Spotto
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 62 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4486 Post by Spotto » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:59 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Doing the maths on Google maps for trips; Pakenham to Corio 120km about 90min and Aldinga to Nuriootpa 120km about 90min. I was actually shocked that Geelong to Pakenham is only 120km. It's crazy how long Adelaide is 100km from Sellicks Beach to Hewett. Greater Melbourne stretches well over 100km from many extremes to another: but it's a very grey area where "Melbourne" ends - it's like do we call Freeling a suburb in Greater Adelaide. Adelaide is long overdue for a N-S freeway and it should be a national infrastructure priority and we should get more money for it from the commonwealth, more than we would be entitled to - we need to catch up.
Agreed. Because the natural geography forces Adelaide to be long and stretched out instead of a more conventional "grow outward somewhat evenly in all directions" kind of city most of the traffic coming through Adelaide, especially through traffic, ultimately goes in a broadly north-south direction whether that be strictly north-south on a single road or going from the southeast to the northwest (i.e. Glen Osmond to Prospect).

User avatar
d3v310per
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 10:52 am
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 173 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4487 Post by d3v310per » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:50 pm

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/so ... f084e295e0

North-South corridor residents fear being short-changed
SA’s department of planning and infrastructure boss has vowed to work with residents along the North-South corridor. But there are fears over compensation.

Residents and businesses near the North-South Corridor have been told they will get a say in the design of the project – but have been warned the process could take years.

Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure boss Tony Braxton-Smith has made the assurance in response to a letter from concerned residents, who say they have been kept in the dark on the road project.

The three solutions being examined by the State Government include one super tunnel from the River Torrens to Darlington.


A hybrid option of two tunnels, which would mean traffic returning to the surface between Anzac Highway and Edward St in Melrose Park is also being considered, along with a tunnel-free design similar to the Torrens to Torrens build.

A decision on the best option for the final 10.5km section of the corridor is expected to be made by the middle of the year.

But Mr Braxton-Smith has told residents that the full design approval could take much longer.

“I appreciate that there is widespread community interest and a desire to contribute to the design of the final stage of the North-South Corridor,” Mr Braxton-Smith said.

“I can assure you that there will be meaningful engagement at an appropriate time in its development.

“In relation to timing, it needs to be appreciated that this is the largest and most complex road project yet in South Australia.”

The River Torrens to Darlington Project will be the final piece of the North-South Corridor.
The River Torrens to Darlington Project will be the final piece of the North-South Corridor.
He said the design process for projects of a similar scale elsewhere in Australia spanned “a number of years”.

Mr Braxton-Smith said there was “still ample time” for the community to “participate and influence outcomes”. Hilton Hotel managing director James Franzon, who is a co-founder of the Inner West South Rd Action Group, said the community was nervous about the project.

“We are in the same position we were months ago,” Mr Franzon told The Advertiser.

“It is just speculation at this point; we don’t know where the on and off ramps will be and if they will use tunnels.

“We are going to continue to push for the tunnelling option.”

James Franzon of the Hilton Hotel.
James Franzon of the Hilton Hotel.
Mr Franzon said the group had been in contact with furious residents who live near the Portrush Rd/Magill Rd intersection, and whose properties face being compulsory acquired as part of a separate road upgrade.

“They are being offered minimal compensations,” he said.

In September, The Advertiser revealed extra compensation would be paid to residents whose homes are bulldozed for the North-South Corridor.

Infrastructure Minister Stephan Knoll said one of the next priorities for the corridor was to establish a team within his department to focus solely on the upgrade, which he described as “the biggest project in our state’s history”.

“This will be a decade-long project that will create thousands of construction jobs, massively reduce travel times and improve freight productivity,” he said.

The department also needs to complete a formal heritage and environmental survey.

User avatar
ChillyPhilly
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1706
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 pm
Location: Adder-Laid, South Australia.
Has thanked: 300 times
Been thanked: 598 times
Contact:

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4488 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:05 pm

So basically, the State Government has no idea what it's doing.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

how good is he
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:26 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 63 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4489 Post by how good is he » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:14 pm

Yes and this 10.5 km section to take a decade...1km per year on average...and still years for the design! I mean just do something, anything so people can see it finished within their lifetime.

Spotto
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 62 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4490 Post by Spotto » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:05 am

The entire project hinges on what kind of solution is devised between Cross Road and Darlington. An elevated superway or lowered motorway cutting would be too disruptive and prevented by costly acquisitions of significant businesses, so those options can be thrown out.

A hybrid tunnel and ground-level option could be possible. But they’d either have to buy four TBMs instead of two so that the northern and southern halves can be done separately since they won’t connect (expensive to buy double the equipment), or two TBMs will have to be excavated and moved from one site to the other to continue the dig (also expensive).

I guess having separate tunnels let’s them dig one half, move the TBMs to the next half and start them digging in the meantime finishing works are done to the tunnels that have been dug. “Stage 1” opens in full while the TBMs are digging away at “Stage 2”. Immediate rollover from one project to the other and no waiting for the entire length of the project to be completed before it’s opened.

There, in 2 minutes I’ve narrowed it down to two options and possibly decided on one preferred option. No doubt they’ll pay their consultants millions to come to the same conclusion after years of “planning”.

User avatar
omada
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 669
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Eden Hills
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 11 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4491 Post by omada » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am

Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.

Eurostar
Legendary Member!
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:44 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 63 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4492 Post by Eurostar » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:45 am

Two examples of freeway in urban/suburban areas that might work for South Road in Edwardstown area.
Attachments
Screen-Shot-2017-01-30-at-10.40.13-AM.png
InnerLoop_Rochester_StratusImaging.jpg

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 109 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4493 Post by SBD » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:17 am

omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
The previous government had a hand-wavy delivery plan that included cut-and-cover short tunnels near Henley Beach Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive, and an elevated (a la Superway) section past Castle Plaza. That seems to have only made it as far as a consultant's report, as neither the Opposition nor the DPTI are indicating that they had a developed plan.

The current government thought that big machines are cool, so decided to see if it can afford to bore deep tunnels end-to-end underneath everything. We are still awaiting the outcome of that investigation to see if bored tunnels are at all feasible.

So yes, everyone knew this was to form part of a continuous motorway. Nobody wants to be the MP for the areas under roadworks disruption at election time. The build (by whatever method) will take longer than one inter-election gap.

Eurostar
Legendary Member!
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:44 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 63 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4494 Post by Eurostar » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:03 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:17 am
omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
The previous government had a hand-wavy delivery plan that included cut-and-cover short tunnels near Henley Beach Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive, and an elevated (a la Superway) section past Castle Plaza. That seems to have only made it as far as a consultant's report, as neither the Opposition nor the DPTI are indicating that they had a developed plan.

The current government thought that big machines are cool, so decided to see if it can afford to bore deep tunnels end-to-end underneath everything. We are still awaiting the outcome of that investigation to see if bored tunnels are at all feasible.

So yes, everyone knew this was to form part of a continuous motorway. Nobody wants to be the MP for the areas under roadworks disruption at election time. The build (by whatever method) will take longer than one inter-election gap.
Whilst the interest rates are low a handful of projects should occur:
1) Tram overpass at Marion Road
2) Grade seperation at Anzac Highway/Marion Road
3) Grade seperation at Gepps Cross
4) Tram depot at Thebarton
5) Train Overpass at Curtis Road and Anderson Walk

Nort
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1284
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 173 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4495 Post by Nort » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:03 pm
SBD wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:17 am
omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
The previous government had a hand-wavy delivery plan that included cut-and-cover short tunnels near Henley Beach Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive, and an elevated (a la Superway) section past Castle Plaza. That seems to have only made it as far as a consultant's report, as neither the Opposition nor the DPTI are indicating that they had a developed plan.

The current government thought that big machines are cool, so decided to see if it can afford to bore deep tunnels end-to-end underneath everything. We are still awaiting the outcome of that investigation to see if bored tunnels are at all feasible.

So yes, everyone knew this was to form part of a continuous motorway. Nobody wants to be the MP for the areas under roadworks disruption at election time. The build (by whatever method) will take longer than one inter-election gap.
Whilst the interest rates are low a handful of projects should occur:
1) Tram overpass at Marion Road
2) Grade seperation at Anzac Highway/Marion Road
3) Grade seperation at Gepps Cross
4) Tram depot at Thebarton
5) Train Overpass at Curtis Road and Anderson Walk
As soon as possible we should be getting as many infrastructure projects running as possible. Best time to do them as you said when interest rates are low, and the economy is going to need the boost when we eventually come out of this pandemic.

User avatar
rev
SA MVP (Most Valued Poster 4000+)
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 512 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4496 Post by rev » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:24 pm

omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:05 pm
So basically, the State Government has no idea what it's doing.
You guys seem surprised for some reason that there is no plan.
This is South Australia in a nutshell. No plan, no vision, no freaking idea. lol

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 109 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4497 Post by SBD » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:46 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:24 pm
omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:05 pm
So basically, the State Government has no idea what it's doing.
You guys seem surprised for some reason that there is no plan.
This is South Australia in a nutshell. No plan, no vision, no freaking idea. lol
Why are you here?

What you said is not entirely true - State Labor and Federal Liberal had the vision for the North-South Motorway, including the concept-level plan, and more detailed planning for the parts that have been built.
State Liberal had a vision for GlobeLink, then discovered that because the trains had been so run down, it is no longer financially viable to build it. It also has the plans for the Port Wakefield bypass/Copper Coast Highway grade separation. I don't recall who first identified the need to duplicate the Joy Baluch AM Bridge.

User avatar
rev
SA MVP (Most Valued Poster 4000+)
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 512 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4498 Post by rev » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:50 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:46 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:24 pm
omada wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Why are they only planning this now!! Seems very chaotic, it' s no surprise that this section was to form part of a continuous motorway.
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:05 pm
So basically, the State Government has no idea what it's doing.
You guys seem surprised for some reason that there is no plan.
This is South Australia in a nutshell. No plan, no vision, no freaking idea. lol
Why are you here?

What you said is not entirely true - State Labor and Federal Liberal had the vision for the North-South Motorway, including the concept-level plan, and more detailed planning for the parts that have been built.
State Liberal had a vision for GlobeLink, then discovered that because the trains had been so run down, it is no longer financially viable to build it. It also has the plans for the Port Wakefield bypass/Copper Coast Highway grade separation. I don't recall who first identified the need to duplicate the Joy Baluch AM Bridge.
You keep deluding your self that this state is moving forward, while nothing is happening. Keep dreaming, that's what the politicians and wannabe oligarchs want lol.

Oh they had a vision you say? Yeh, we've all had visions as "detailed" as what they've told us over the years that they "want to do". There's probably "visions" posted on here that have more detail for the remaining sections then anything the government has at the moment lol.

Not financially viable to build a freight only airport (that nobody asked for) because rail is neglected?
Do you actually believe that? Go and look at freight levels. If you think there is demand for a freight only airport, ask your self why would it be built in the Adelaide Hills and not where the majority of our freight comes in to, like the east coast or Fremantle.
Lets be honest, and this is going to be slightly painful because you are a typical South Australian without a clue SBD, there never was any intention by the Marshall government to build their pie in the sky GlobeLink nonsense. It was an election ploy. They tried it several times with a new stadium on the former rail yards site where the nRAH was built, and with their plan to rebuild the old RAH. And whatever else I'm forgetting.

There is no vision, there is no plan to power this state up and move it forward.

GlobeLink? LMFAO don't make me laugh.

Globally Air cargo accounts for around 60 million metric tonnes and Cargo by ship accounts for 2 billion metric tonnes. But SOUF OZ IS GONNA BUILD A FREIGHT AIRPORT FUCKK YEEH

Air freight in Australia accounts for 0.01% of domestic freight, coastal shipping 16.8%, road 34.6% and rail 48.5%. Yeh, makes sense to build a billion dollar airport for that..wooo way to go on your vision Steven Marshall, no wonder the moron South Australian voters elected you lol.

But yeh, South Australians keep believing that this government was actually serious about building a freight airport in the Adelaide Hills :hilarious:

Since they apparently discovered that our rail infrastructure is neglected, WHY haven't they come up with a plan to fix it?
Two thirds of our freight is on rail and road. WHY THE HELL AREN'T THEY DOING MORE TO IMPROVE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE? WHERE IS THE PLANS FOR THE REMAINING SECTION OF THE NS CORRIDOR? THERE ARE NO PLANS, THEY ARE YEARS AWAY WE'VE BEEN TOLD. SO WHERES THE PLAN TO FIX THE RAIL THAT THEY DISCOVERED WAS NEGLECTED?

There is no plan. Simple. They make it up as they go along. Reacting to political winds and public sentiment of the time. Anyone who disagrees with that, despite the facts starring us in the face, sorry for any offence caused, is an idiot who should never be allowed to vote again. The future of our state has been pissed down a drain, and most of you don't even realize it.

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 109 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4499 Post by SBD » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:09 pm

You focused on the airport. My comment was aimed at rail, but we are on a road forum anyway. The rail bypass of the Adelaide Hills would get a lot of freight trains off of that corridor, and hopefully draw more interstate freight back onto rails. Virtually all regional railways in South Australia have now been closed, or fallen into disuse. I'm sure there are multiple factors that led to that situation, not for the motorway thread. The road component of Globelink would shift some of the freight away from Portrush Road, but the increased distance (to Adelaide suburbs including the Port) would probably limit how much if it didn't shift to rail unless it was just passing through.

User avatar
rhino
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2962
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:37 pm
Location: Nairne
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 129 times

[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4500 Post by rhino » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:01 am

Rail is great for hauling freight long distances, or for hauling bulk (rocks and seeds) on a regular basis. It is not so good for short distance (up to about 800km) general freight because of the time needed to transload from truck to train and back to truck for final delivery, vs stay on the truck for the whole journey. Diverting the interstate rail route around Adelaide would result in more freight going on to trucks, and coming down the South Eastern Freeway to access Adelaide, due to the time required to get rail freight from the eastern states (specifically Melbourne) right around Adelaide and then back into it by truck.

Sure, rail infrastructure has been neglected by Genesee and Wyoming, and by successive SA governments who did not take the rail back when G&W reneged on their contract. Now it will cost a motza to fix, but we have to weigh that up against using road to transport rocks and seeds (minerals and grain), and the cost of maintaining road infrastructure for this cause. Also road safety must be factored into the equation.


FWIT, there is a privately owned freight-only International airport (Wellcamp) outside Toowoomba on the Darling Downs, operating successfully. AIUI the freight is mainly frozen packaged meat to the outside world.
cheers,
Rhino

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 7 guests