[U/C] North-South Motorway

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Thunderstruck
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3406 Post by Thunderstruck » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:00 am

Nort wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:05 am
Thunderstruck wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:50 am
Tunnel the lot
I disagree. If a tunnel is going to happen then a two part tunnel that allows people to get on/off seems more useful. Especially because it would allow options for an eventual Anzac Highway/West Tce upgrade directly connecting the city to the motorway.
Well that goes without saying, access will certainly be required along multiple points, some more major than others but the entire length should be a tunnel.

And absolutely yes to a rail tunnel but probably not for another 20 years at the very earliest
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3407 Post by mattwinter » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am

Is that diagram implying there won't be an upgrade to the Cross Road / South Road intersection? Would be a great shame - desperately needs an upgrade which includes grade seperation of the train line

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3408 Post by Westside » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:21 am

Nort wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:05 pm
Westside wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:51 pm
CBD rail tunnel first. Please and thank you.
I'm a big fan of the idea of a CBD rail tunnel, but apart from containing the word tunnel they are entirely different projects with entirely different purposes.

To be honest a South Road tunnel is probably the best thing that could happen in building momentum for a rail tunnel. It would get us the equipment and expertise needed locally to make the project happen and coming as it would with the "completion" of South Road it would be the perfect timing for large public transport infrastructure works.
I'm just saying that we need to start at least thinking about it. Both a non-stop N-S road and a CBD rail tunnel have been pipe dreams for decades now. Only one has had any serious work put into it. The rail tunnel will be about half the length of the South Rd tunnel(s) and significantly narrower. It's great that the final pieces of the puzzle for South Road are being planned, but we need to invest as much time and energy into proper public transport projects if we want to have more than just an extra station or two added to our heavy or light rail in the next 10 years. Start planning the options now, to commence work in 5-10 years, so it will be complete in 10-15.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3409 Post by claybro » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:39 am

mattwinter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am
Is that diagram implying there won't be an upgrade to the Cross Road / South Road intersection? Would be a great shame - desperately needs an upgrade which includes grade seperation of the train line
And on that note, a single tunnel will not allow for access via Cross Road to the SE Freeway, as is one of the preferred eventual options from IA. Large expected increases in road freight over the coming decades will render the Portrush road route unviable in the long term, and sooner or later the Cross road upgrade will commence. Any tunnel plans should include provisions for an interchange in the Cross road area.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3410 Post by Patrick_27 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 pm

claybro wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:39 am
mattwinter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am
Is that diagram implying there won't be an upgrade to the Cross Road / South Road intersection? Would be a great shame - desperately needs an upgrade which includes grade seperation of the train line
And on that note, a single tunnel will not allow for access via Cross Road to the SE Freeway, as is one of the preferred eventual options from IA. Large expected increases in road freight over the coming decades will render the Portrush road route unviable in the long term, and sooner or later the Cross road upgrade will commence. Any tunnel plans should include provisions for an interchange in the Cross road area.
Your comments about Cross Road are merely an assumption, nowhere does it state that this is the preferred route for road freight. By that point we could probably expect the Libs to have built their road freight bypass, which is probably why it's not a point of consideration in any tunnel proposal.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3411 Post by normh » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm

My thoughts when I saw this "finally". Tunneling technology has advanced heaps and can be done quickly. Also it needs to be 2 tunnels not one, this offers safety in the event of a sideswipe/major collision with opposing traffic and importantly fire. Yes cars do catch fire, petrol/diesel/battery. I would hope it is wide, initially 3 lanes, or 4 this would offer flexibility in the event of a major event in one of the tunnels. I agree with level exchanges and they could be at Sir Donald Bradman Drive, Anzac Hwy and Cross Road, this would also allow for the large vents that would be needed for the airflow/extraction of fumes.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3412 Post by how good is he » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:14 pm

If they did this as two separate projects ie 2 x 5 - 6 km tunnels, how long would a 5-6 km tunnel take to build? Are my thoughts of 2 years realistic? I know it's unlikely but if a magical $5bn appeared by the end 2021?

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3413 Post by HeapsGood » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:59 pm

A city entry and exit, and an airport road enter and exit, is a must, as is an eventual connection point to Princes Highway (I still like the MATS plans idea of having the Princes highway link up to the motorway via the foothills).
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3414 Post by Nort » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:05 pm

HeapsGood wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:59 pm
A city entry and exit, and an airport road enter and exit, is a must, as is an eventual connection point to Princes Highway (I still like the MATS plans idea of having the Princes highway link up to the motorway via the foothills).
I think that would be dealt with by a tunnel entrance/exit at Anzac highway.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3415 Post by SBD » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 pm
claybro wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:39 am
mattwinter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am
Is that diagram implying there won't be an upgrade to the Cross Road / South Road intersection? Would be a great shame - desperately needs an upgrade which includes grade seperation of the train line
And on that note, a single tunnel will not allow for access via Cross Road to the SE Freeway, as is one of the preferred eventual options from IA. Large expected increases in road freight over the coming decades will render the Portrush road route unviable in the long term, and sooner or later the Cross road upgrade will commence. Any tunnel plans should include provisions for an interchange in the Cross road area.
Your comments about Cross Road are merely an assumption, nowhere does it state that this is the preferred route for road freight. By that point we could probably expect the Libs to have built their road freight bypass, which is probably why it's not a point of consideration in any tunnel proposal.
How deep would a tunnel need to be to be allowed to not be concerned with surface infrastructure and permissions?

If a tunnel could be deep enough to avoid property acquisition except at interchanges, then the ideal connection between the South Eastern Freeway and the North South Motorway might be further south than Cross Road. For example put the freeway interchange at the bend where Readymix used to be, and the Corridor interchange on what Google Maps currently shows as vacant land north of Castle Plaza. That looks like about 6km, so may not need an intermediate interchange as it's a route people are not used to being able to use now.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3416 Post by SBD » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:23 pm

how good is he wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:14 pm
If they did this as two separate projects ie 2 x 5 - 6 km tunnels, how long would a 5-6 km tunnel take to build? Are my thoughts of 2 years realistic? I know it's unlikely but if a magical $5bn appeared by the end 2021?
The decline for the Carrapateena mine east of Woomera seems to be expected to take about 3 years (November 2016 to late 2019) for a 7.5km tunnel. That has no issues with neighbours complaining about dust, noise or blasting. I don't know how wide or high that is compared to a freeway, nor whether a mine decline in rock is comparable to digging a horizontal tunnel in the Adelaide Plains.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3417 Post by claybro » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:05 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 pm
claybro wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:39 am
mattwinter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am
Is that diagram implying there won't be an upgrade to the Cross Road / South Road intersection? Would be a great shame - desperately needs an upgrade which includes grade seperation of the train line
And on that note, a single tunnel will not allow for access via Cross Road to the SE Freeway, as is one of the preferred eventual options from IA. Large expected increases in road freight over the coming decades will render the Portrush road route unviable in the long term, and sooner or later the Cross road upgrade will commence. Any tunnel plans should include provisions for an interchange in the Cross road area.
Your comments about Cross Road are merely an assumption, nowhere does it state that this is the preferred route for road freight. By that point we could probably expect the Libs to have built their road freight bypass, which is probably why it's not a point of consideration in any tunnel proposal.
No not just an assumption. I have seen it mentioned numerous times in various publications. Regardless of the Liberal proposal for and Eastern Freightlink, it will be necessary to connect the North south motorway to the SE freeway due to the amount of warehousing and industry in the Western suburbs, and this has already been covered by IA.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3418 Post by normh » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:11 pm

how good is he wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:14 pm
If they did this as two separate projects ie 2 x 5 - 6 km tunnels, how long would a 5-6 km tunnel take to build? Are my thoughts of 2 years realistic? I know it's unlikely but if a magical $5bn appeared by the end 2021?
Well I am no expert however if Seattle can do it we certainly can. And from this link even 1 tunnel, down at 60+ metres and it can go right under the city.

https://newatlas.com/worlds-largest-dri ... tha/28311/

They say in the article 10m a day, 3 lanes in over/under configuration so we are looking at say 3 to 5 years, pretty good I reckon.

So hey why not, while we are at it, a tunnel from the bottom of the freeway, under the Cross Road/Portrush Road intersection to the North South Motorway with a feed both North and South and that could happen at the Anzac Highway intersection. Once the TBM is bought and is working might was well leverage it, and to speed things up buy 2. Once the machines are here, surely they could be used for projects interstate to offset the capital costs and spread the love

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3419 Post by Goodsy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:31 pm

normh wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:11 pm
how good is he wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:14 pm
If they did this as two separate projects ie 2 x 5 - 6 km tunnels, how long would a 5-6 km tunnel take to build? Are my thoughts of 2 years realistic? I know it's unlikely but if a magical $5bn appeared by the end 2021?
Well I am no expert however if Seattle can do it we certainly can. And from this link even 1 tunnel, down at 60+ metres and it can go right under the city.

https://newatlas.com/worlds-largest-dri ... tha/28311/

They say in the article 10m a day, 3 lanes in over/under configuration so we are looking at say 3 to 5 years, pretty good I reckon.

So hey why not, while we are at it, a tunnel from the bottom of the freeway, under the Cross Road/Portrush Road intersection to the North South Motorway with a feed both North and South and that could happen at the Anzac Highway intersection. Once the TBM is bought and is working might was well leverage it, and to speed things up buy 2. Once the machines are here, surely they could be used for projects interstate to offset the capital costs and spread the love
TBMs are generally built to work in the specific jobs geology. What works here might be useless anywhere else, and what works on South road might be useless for Cross road.
That being said the Airport Link tunnels in Brisbane took 4 years from Contract signing to project completion

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[U/C] North-South Motorway

#3420 Post by Aidan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:03 am

The Sunday Mail report is hollow. The reason DPTI have not released cost estimates is because they've not done cost estimates yet! It's not a detailed plan; just a very vague proposal, possibly fed to the press by the government to gauge public reaction.

Meanwhile I've nearly finished an alternative plan for a PPP including a South Road upgrade. Some tunneling is likely, though probably cut and cover rather than bored. But for commercial reasons I can't say much more about it yet.
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