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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 pm
by Spotto
Goodsy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 pm
andynguyen wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:35 pm
Here's the map that I've drawn about a possible route for a freeway connection (in green) between North-South Motorway and South East Freeway, along with a possible rail alignment (in blue) through the Adelaide Hills. The underground sections are represented by broken lines.
Your railway looks much shorter and straighter than the current alignment. How does its gradient compare?
a casual 62% grade coming down in his underground section between Torrens Park Station and Sheoak Road
How'd you calculate 62% and what counts as "casual" in train terms? Novice here concerning train gradients.

Looking at the route alone though, surely the climb from Torrens Park to Sheoak Road would be too steep for a train, especially if the entire length of the climb is in a tunnel. You'd think the green route near Brown Hill Creek would be an easier climb and cheaper since it would be an above-ground-and-viaduct combo.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:34 am
by Goodsy
Spotto wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 pm
Goodsy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 pm


Your railway looks much shorter and straighter than the current alignment. How does its gradient compare?
a casual 62% grade coming down in his underground section between Torrens Park Station and Sheoak Road
How'd you calculate 62% and what counts as "casual" in train terms? Novice here concerning train gradients.

Looking at the route alone though, surely the climb from Torrens Park to Sheoak Road would be too steep for a train, especially if the entire length of the climb is in a tunnel. You'd think the green route near Brown Hill Creek would be an easier climb and cheaper since it would be an above-ground-and-viaduct combo.
half cheeky half serious, Google Earth gave me a max slope of 62% on that route using the path tool and elevation profile.
There's no good way to build a rail line between Sheoak road and Torrens Park without traversing the hills face

Image

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:32 pm
by rev
Zig zags and horsehoe curves would probably be applicable in such a scenario if a train line was to ever run through there. Even spirals. All are techniques used to get trains up and down hills.

What makes anyone assume that if they did a line through there that it would run exactly as the hills are? They'd probably trench through it to reduce the gradient anyway.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:33 pm
by Mr Messy
Or you know, the current line through the hills via blackwood

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:04 pm
by SBD
rev wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:32 pm
Zig zags and horsehoe curves would probably be applicable in such a scenario if a train line was to ever run through there. Even spirals. All are techniques used to get trains up and down hills.

What makes anyone assume that if they did a line through there that it would run exactly as the hills are? They'd probably trench through it to reduce the gradient anyway.
The point is that the current line is both too steep and too sharp curves to meet the modern requirements of efficient rail transport. A tunnel from the proposed start point to about Mount Barker might meet the requirements, to Monarto certainly would. Any proposal that is on or near the surface in the Crafers/Stirling district has to take a circuitous route to get there to have any chance of not being as steep as the current version.

The range near Truro is only about half as high as Mount Lofty Station, so much easier to get trains over of GlobeLink is built.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:06 pm
by rhino
A zig zag is really not a practical way to get a 1.6km long freight train down a slope though, and we already have a big horse-shoe - it goes via Blackwood.
However, a Spiral would work (I think) and would also be really really cool.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:08 pm
by SouthAussie94
Add one or two of these and she'll be right....

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:55 am
by SBD
SouthAussie94 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:08 pm
Add one or two of these and she'll be right....
I believe that there are several rail projects in New South Wales to re-route railways to avoid spirals they presently have in the network. I don't know the reasons.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:29 am
by rev
Globelink wont be built, neither will a rail line through that area. Lets get back to the topic now, North South Motorway..

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 pm
by kymbosa
Also similar work is also now occurring on one eastern wall section between Mimosa and Sturt

And yep that the area that I am talking about.

Also this is in the Murdoch trash - this is the start of the current gov trying to pitch to SA that the road doesn’t need to be upgraded anymore after Darlington. What this unfold, ffs this state sucks.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opi ... edb1f17768

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:17 am
by SBD
kymbosa wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 pm
Also similar work is also now occurring on one eastern wall section between Mimosa and Sturt

And yep that the area that I am talking about.

Also this is in the Murdoch trash - this is the start of the current gov trying to pitch to SA that the road doesn’t need to be upgraded anymore after Darlington. What this unfold, ffs this state sucks.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opi ... edb1f17768
What makes you think Abraham speaks for the government?

I read the article as a mild whinge that the government seems to be moving slowly on finishing it.

It stands out to me that the Labor Party makes no noise about Liberal not getting it done. It seems to me that Tom Koutsantonis would be quite happy not to have a freeway built across his electorate until after he decides to retire and leave it as someone else's problem. Of course wherever you remove the worst problem in the network, somewhere else will become the worst place that will need fixing next. Liberal seems to be doing more other places across the state at the same time than Labor did, and Labor stopped its pipeline befor ethe last election, so it takes a while to get it going again.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 am
by kymbosa
SBD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:17 am
kymbosa wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 pm
Also similar work is also now occurring on one eastern wall section between Mimosa and Sturt

And yep that the area that I am talking about.

Also this is in the Murdoch trash - this is the start of the current gov trying to pitch to SA that the road doesn’t need to be upgraded anymore after Darlington. What this unfold, ffs this state sucks.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opi ... edb1f17768
What makes you think Abraham speaks for the government?

I read the article as a mild whinge that the government seems to be moving slowly on finishing it.

It stands out to me that the Labor Party makes no noise about Liberal not getting it done. It seems to me that Tom Koutsantonis would be quite happy not to have a freeway built across his electorate until after he decides to retire and leave it as someone else's problem. Of course wherever you remove the worst problem in the network, somewhere else will become the worst place that will need fixing next. Liberal seems to be doing more other places across the state at the same time than Labor did, and Labor stopped its pipeline befor ethe last election, so it takes a while to get it going again.
Makes no noise; you must be living under a rock, at the Fed election Labor was the only party that said it would be completed within 4yrs, libs next term it would start.

Tom is only saying about the areas it needs to be build past, so places like the theby are knocked over. He has once stated that it shouldn’t be built.

And doing more on other places, labor promised the duplication of the bridge at Port Augusta, they didn’t say anything about the Port Walkfield bridge that was libs great idea and the libs have also run finally with the other bridge.

What else are the libs doing? North - South needs to be done, needs to be done now.

And you either don’t understand the Murdoch press or just don’t read between lines; when the Murdoch press doesn’t like something, or they do like something, the reporters start softly with articles about spending or doing things differently. This is to get the public on side, so they start saying “oh don’t spend that money there etc” the gov of the day than says we have listened to the public and everyone is happy.

Ffs just build the ruddy road.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:44 am
by SBD
kymbosa wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 am
SBD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:17 am
kymbosa wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 pm
Also similar work is also now occurring on one eastern wall section between Mimosa and Sturt

And yep that the area that I am talking about.

Also this is in the Murdoch trash - this is the start of the current gov trying to pitch to SA that the road doesn’t need to be upgraded anymore after Darlington. What this unfold, ffs this state sucks.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opi ... edb1f17768
What makes you think Abraham speaks for the government?

I read the article as a mild whinge that the government seems to be moving slowly on finishing it.

It stands out to me that the Labor Party makes no noise about Liberal not getting it done. It seems to me that Tom Koutsantonis would be quite happy not to have a freeway built across his electorate until after he decides to retire and leave it as someone else's problem. Of course wherever you remove the worst problem in the network, somewhere else will become the worst place that will need fixing next. Liberal seems to be doing more other places across the state at the same time than Labor did, and Labor stopped its pipeline befor ethe last election, so it takes a while to get it going again.
Makes no noise; you must be living under a rock, at the Fed election Labor was the only party that said it would be completed within 4yrs, libs next term it would start.

Tom is only saying about the areas it needs to be build past, so places like the theby are knocked over. He has once stated that it shouldn’t be built.

And doing more on other places, labor promised the duplication of the bridge at Port Augusta, they didn’t say anything about the Port Walkfield bridge that was libs great idea and the libs have also run finally with the other bridge.

What else are the libs doing? North - South needs to be done, needs to be done now.

And you either don’t understand the Murdoch press or just don’t read between lines; when the Murdoch press doesn’t like something, or they do like something, the reporters start softly with articles about spending or doing things differently. This is to get the public on side, so they start saying “oh don’t spend that money there etc” the gov of the day than says we have listened to the public and everyone is happy.

Ffs just build the ruddy road.
I agree with your last sentence. They should get on with it.

We get photos of Koutsantonis standing with his arms crossed in front of his favourite building. Labor said it would be built in 4 years, but if that could have been the case, the planning would have started. We'd have their members crowing about knowing the best way to do it and Lib should get on at doing it ("show some leadership and do it the way we say"), and Liberal would have access to all the plans in DPTI. My interpretation is that Labor said it would be done when the audience was potential users, and did nothing about it if the audience might include people who would be displaced or inconvenienced by roadworks during the construction.

Libs are also upgrading a bunch of other intersections, including on both Cross and Portrush Roads.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:23 am
by kymbosa
SBD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:44 am
kymbosa wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 am
SBD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:17 am


What makes you think Abraham speaks for the government?

I read the article as a mild whinge that the government seems to be moving slowly on finishing it.

It stands out to me that the Labor Party makes no noise about Liberal not getting it done. It seems to me that Tom Koutsantonis would be quite happy not to have a freeway built across his electorate until after he decides to retire and leave it as someone else's problem. Of course wherever you remove the worst problem in the network, somewhere else will become the worst place that will need fixing next. Liberal seems to be doing more other places across the state at the same time than Labor did, and Labor stopped its pipeline befor ethe last election, so it takes a while to get it going again.
Makes no noise; you must be living under a rock, at the Fed election Labor was the only party that said it would be completed within 4yrs, libs next term it would start.

Tom is only saying about the areas it needs to be build past, so places like the theby are knocked over. He has once stated that it shouldn’t be built.

And doing more on other places, labor promised the duplication of the bridge at Port Augusta, they didn’t say anything about the Port Walkfield bridge that was libs great idea and the libs have also run finally with the other bridge.

What else are the libs doing? North - South needs to be done, needs to be done now.

And you either don’t understand the Murdoch press or just don’t read between lines; when the Murdoch press doesn’t like something, or they do like something, the reporters start softly with articles about spending or doing things differently. This is to get the public on side, so they start saying “oh don’t spend that money there etc” the gov of the day than says we have listened to the public and everyone is happy.

Ffs just build the ruddy road.
I agree with your last sentence. They should get on with it.

We get photos of Koutsantonis standing with his arms crossed in front of his favourite building. Labor said it would be built in 4 years, but if that could have been the case, the planning would have started. We'd have their members crowing about knowing the best way to do it and Lib should get on at doing it ("show some leadership and do it the way we say"), and Liberal would have access to all the plans in DPTI. My interpretation is that Labor said it would be done when the audience was potential users, and did nothing about it if the audience might include people who would be displaced or inconvenienced by roadworks during the construction.

Libs are also upgrading a bunch of other intersections, including on both Cross and Portrush Roads.
That last comment; also upgrading a bunch of intersections; um... Fitzroy tec and all the intersections were upgraded by labor and plenty more around the Torrens to Torrens and Darlington area.

Labor did more than just a north/south road.

The smaller jobs are need, but also are the bigger builds.

At least we both agree on just getting the job done. 😊

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:44 am
by how good is he
Trying to keep a balance, Marshall did say they will make a decision by the end of this year on the final stage for the final 10.5 km. The past work done by DPTI I don’t think included the (full) tunnelling option. When all the scoping reports etc are done I hope they divulge all the costings and pro/cons of each option & give the public a say also. However I feel overall the Libs strategy may be to time the completion of all their other roadwork projects (inc Pym St) to be just before the next election as possibly a feel good, big ribbon-cutting exercise or is that purely co-incidental?