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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:23 pm
by rev
Article on AdelaideNow. They're looking at legislation or whatever, to allow them to tunnel under properties without having to compensate people for it.
As if that's even a thing? Or have other cities which have tunnels under urban areas, already got such laws in place and we're behind on the matter?

I think with that happening now, it's almost certain that there will be tunnels involved, they mentioned a "super tunnel" I assume that means the whole length of the remaining section, or two tunnels spread across the remaining section. Tunnels will cost $5 billion they reckon, apparently there's $5.4 billion on the table.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:08 am
by muzzamo
The ledger for a David and Goliath battle of house acquisitions
Matt Smith, Political Editor, Sunday Mail (SA)

Tunnels could be legally built beneath people’s homes along the North-South Corridor, under new rules proposed by the State Government.

In a South Australian first, changes to the laws that underpin compulsory property acquisitions will refer to the land under homes and businesses, paving the way for the Government to complete the corridor with tunnels.

The move could potentially save hundreds of properties from the wrecking ball.

People would not be automatically compensated if tunnels went under their properties.

However, for the first time, the Government would pay homeowners a premium for acquiring their houses.

The Government has given its strongest indication yet that tunnels will be the favoured option to complete the state’s largest ever infrastructure project, stretching from the River Torrens to Darlington. The project is estimated to cost up to $5 billion.

“The Marshall Government is seriously contemplating tunnelling for the remaining section of the North-South Corridor and these legislative changes are necessary to make that happen,” Infrastructure Minister Stephan Knoll told the Sunday Mail.

The draft legislation also heralds a new carrot-and-stick approach to land acquisitions along the final stage of the North-South Corridor, where between 600 and 1000 properties may need to be demolished, including heritage-listed icons such as Thebarton Theatre. It includes “emotional dislocation” payments of up to $50,000, as well as up to $10,000, so homeowners can get a lawyer to argue their case against land acquisition.

Until now, governments have only had to pay a property’s market value to compulsory acquire it.

But the proposed laws contain measures that aim to fast-track the North-South Corridor project and reduce the chances of lengthy legal disputes with property owners.

The three solutions being examined by the State Government include one super tunnel, or a hybrid option of two tunnels that would mean traffic returning to the surface between Anzac Highway and Edward St in Melrose Park.

A tunnel-free design is also being examined, which would be similar to the Torrens to Torrens build.

Mr Knoll is expected to be handed a final business case on the options soon, ahead of making a decision on the best one by the end of the year.

“That’s why we have $5.4 billion on the table towards this project,” he said. “We want to ensure that if we go down the tunnelling route, we are ready to go.”

Mr Knoll said the new rules would even the ledger for those facing the prospect of losing their home.

“Sometimes it can be a bit of a David and Goliath situation, and the Marshall Government wants to better equip David throughout the negotiation process,” Mr Knoll said. “That’s why we are empowering land owners by providing them $10,000 to get legal and other professional advice, introducing solatium payments and compulsory settlement conferences.

“Compulsory land acquisition can be quite a stressful time on individuals, families and businesses, and it should not have to drag out any longer than necessary.”

Opposition infrastructure spokesman Tom Koutsantonis has previously called for intervention to stop the demolition of historic buildings in the road’s path. He also wants more funding from Prime Minister Scott Morrison to ensure as many buildings as possible are saved.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:58 am
by claybro
Good to see the media is still trying to whip up hysteria adding the emotive Thenarton Thestre destruction. Tunnels or not, theThebarton Theatre does not need, nor will be destroyed. What I read into this , is that the remainder will still be a combination, even though the article tries to paint a picture of one long tunnel.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:09 am
by Norman
... so another month now until the next puff piece about the North South Motorway comes out? Maybe we can talk about the colour scheme of the tunnel, or maybe what plants they will have at the entrances.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:54 am
by croweater888
croweater888 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm
A question for those who know about such things:
Why do the proposed North-South Corridor tunnels have to follow the existing road route of South Road? Is there a possibility they could take a shorter, more direct route underground, then have appropriate exits at existing roadways?

What is the legality of the proposed tunnels being built under private property? How far underneath private property would the tunnel need to be for it be deemed public domain? Is their precedent for this form of design?
It appears I was right...

When I asked this question, it was me looking at the current roadway and noting the dog leg around Thebarton. Following the existing South Road route in this area seems a bit pointless.

My theory: you'd enter the new tunnel around Port Road, then continue in a straight line until the tunnel matches the current roadway above it, somewhere around Henley Beach Road. Then it will follow the current South Road path until it reaches Darlington - with appropriate exits/entry points at/around ANZAC Highway.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:49 pm
by kymbosa
The biggest change to the Darlington upgrade is happening.

Ayliffes Raod bridge is about to open to traffic.

https://youtu.be/_HdQQu0SoAw

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:08 pm
by claybro
croweater888 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:54 am
croweater888 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm
A question for those who know about such things:
Why do the proposed North-South Corridor tunnels have to follow the existing road route of South Road? Is there a possibility they could take a shorter, more direct route underground, then have appropriate exits at existing roadways?

What is the legality of the proposed tunnels being built under private property? How far underneath private property would the tunnel need to be for it be deemed public domain? Is their precedent for this form of design?
It appears I was right...

When I asked this question, it was me looking at the current roadway and noting the dog leg around Thebarton. Following the existing South Road route in this area seems a bit pointless.

My theory: you'd enter the new tunnel around Port Road, then continue in a straight line until the tunnel matches the current roadway above it, somewhere around Henley Beach Road. Then it will follow the current South Road path until it reaches Darlington - with appropriate exits/entry points at/around ANZAC Highway.
Not sure they would commence the tunnel "around Port Road" when the trench already goes under Port, and Grange Road. More likely any tunnel would commence near the Torrens, and come out after Richmond, if even that far. The cost and time of tunnelling still far outweighs trenching and land aquesition, and I believe only the tricky part through Thebartpn /Mile end will be considered for a tunnel. The trench seemed to work fine for T2T with minimal outcry, so there is no reason not to continue it further South. The media is reading too much into the tunnel statements, and the government are only too happy to oblige, because it reminds people they are brave and considering the big options.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:04 pm
by how good is he
The other consideration is will they use only one TBM for a 2 lane each way tunnel (4 lane total) or will they use 2 TBMs (or take twice as long) for a 3 lane tunnel(and maybe twice the cost)? I know everyone wants 2 x 3 lane tunnels but will the budget allow it?

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:18 am
by ChillyPhilly
how good is he wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:04 pm
The other consideration is will they use only one TBM for a 2 lane each way tunnel (4 lane total) or will they use 2 TBMs (or take twice as long) for a 3 lane tunnel(and maybe twice the cost)? I know everyone wants 2 x 3 lane tunnels but will the budget allow it?
If the State Government want to get it right, then they'll opt for the 2x3 lanes (which, IMO, is absolutely necessary).

Induced demand will see 2x2 become a nightmare.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 am
by SRW
Remember, these are the people who brought you a one-way freeway.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:28 am
by SBD
SRW wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 am
Remember, these are the people who brought you a one-way freeway.
It was a solution that worked for its time. they are also the people who are undoing the reversible lane on Flagstaff Road - was that created when Labor was in government?

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:38 pm
by kymbosa
SBD wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:28 am
SRW wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 am
Remember, these are the people who brought you a one-way freeway.
It was a solution that worked for its time. they are also the people who are undoing the reversible lane on Flagstaff Road - was that created when Labor was in government?
It didn’t work. Come on, stop being silly. Locals hated it, visitors were totally confused by it.

Facts - Gov of the day was told for an extra $50m it can be duplicated. They declined as they wanted a quick fix to a please the south and try and win swing seats. In which they lost.

It also costed the state an extra $400m to get it right, just think of all the things where that could have been spent?

Now on to Flagstaff Hill Road; yes still a silly road, but it works. Needs to be improved, but all this current gov has said is it’s working on a fix. No time frame, no money, no coatings, only “working” please in opp for 16yrs and they have nothing when it comes to infrastructure and building the roads of the future. Exhibit 1; their stupid idea for Springbank/Daws road let’s fix the dog leg by building extra lanes and keeping the dog leg. Well done on the most stupidest idea since the SEXY one. 🤦‍♂️

Back on topic. The release of information regarding the Darlington changes. Happening this weekend; 27 - 29th September. So come Monday morning it’s game on.

https://dpti.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pd ... t_2019.pdf

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:23 pm
by muzzamo
Looks like the Darlington road will be called The Southern Expressway (not the North South Motorway)

Permanent overhead signage has now been installed at the ayliffes road entrance.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:40 pm
by Spotto
muzzamo wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:23 pm
Looks like the Darlington road will be called The Southern Expressway (not the North South Motorway)

Permanent overhead signage has now been installed at the ayliffes road entrance.
Makes sense given it's not connected to any other parts of NSM, nor will it be for at least some years to come. Also makes wayfinding and traffic reports much easier, would be a bit confusing for the general public to have the NSM up north running Virginia to Hindmarsh then a lonely stub all the way down south at Bedford Park.

[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:29 am
by SBD
Spotto wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:40 pm
muzzamo wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:23 pm
Looks like the Darlington road will be called The Southern Expressway (not the North South Motorway)

Permanent overhead signage has now been installed at the ayliffes road entrance.
Makes sense given it's not connected to any other parts of NSM, nor will it be for at least some years to come. Also makes wayfinding and traffic reports much easier, would be a bit confusing for the general public to have the NSM up north running Virginia to Hindmarsh then a lonely stub all the way down south at Bedford Park.
Traffic reports already talk about "queuing at the northern end of the North-South Motorway". I have assumed that means both Pym Street and Port River Expressway. If the new bit got the same name, it would include Clovelly Park as well and they could stop having to separately say Southern Expressway.