[U/C] North-South Motorway

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Eurostar
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4351 Post by Eurostar » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:45 am

I imagine if SA Labor were in Government now they would have extended the motorway from Tonsley to Edwardstown, with commercial nature of corridor between St Marys and Edwardstown I predict they might opt for elevated and minor intersection changes I.e Raglan Avenue/Grange Road, Celtic Avenue.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4352 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:58 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:45 am
I imagine if SA Labor were in Government now they would have extended the motorway from Tonsley to Edwardstown, with commercial nature of corridor between St Marys and Edwardstown I predict they might opt for elevated and minor intersection changes I.e Raglan Avenue/Grange Road, Celtic Avenue.
That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.

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[U/C] North-South Motorway

#4353 Post by mrumley02 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:02 pm

SBD wrote:
Eurostar wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:45 am
I imagine if SA Labor were in Government now they would have extended the motorway from Tonsley to Edwardstown, with commercial nature of corridor between St Marys and Edwardstown I predict they might opt for elevated and minor intersection changes I.e Raglan Avenue/Grange Road, Celtic Avenue.
That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.
My thought was maybe a Shepherds Hill Rd link through Blackwood and on the south of Belair National Park linking to the SE Freeway at Crafers.

But I live North so the terrain isn’t familiar to me

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] North-South Motorway

#4354 Post by Mr Messy » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:26 pm

mrumley02 wrote:
SBD wrote:
Eurostar wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:45 am
I imagine if SA Labor were in Government now they would have extended the motorway from Tonsley to Edwardstown, with commercial nature of corridor between St Marys and Edwardstown I predict they might opt for elevated and minor intersection changes I.e Raglan Avenue/Grange Road, Celtic Avenue.
That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.
My thought was maybe a Shepherds Hill Rd link through Blackwood and on the south of Belair National Park linking to the SE Freeway at Crafers.

But I live North so the terrain isn’t familiar to me
You've described Upper Sturt road. Not exactly straight or flat

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4355 Post by mrumley02 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:40 pm

Mr Messy wrote:
mrumley02 wrote:
SBD wrote: That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.
My thought was maybe a Shepherds Hill Rd link through Blackwood and on the south of Belair National Park linking to the SE Freeway at Crafers.

But I live North so the terrain isn’t familiar to me
You've described Upper Sturt road. Not exactly straight or flat

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
True. But I think no matter what route they choose it’s going to be a decent-sized construction project. Probably similar in nature to the SE Freeway itself including more tunneling.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4356 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:55 pm

mrumley02 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:02 pm
SBD wrote:
Eurostar wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:45 am
I imagine if SA Labor were in Government now they would have extended the motorway from Tonsley to Edwardstown, with commercial nature of corridor between St Marys and Edwardstown I predict they might opt for elevated and minor intersection changes I.e Raglan Avenue/Grange Road, Celtic Avenue.
That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.
My thought was maybe a Shepherds Hill Rd link through Blackwood and on the south of Belair National Park linking to the SE Freeway at Crafers.

But I live North so the terrain isn’t familiar to me
Linking at Crafers really only moves the current steep slope to a different place.

My thought had been to tunnel through from the bend (where the concrete place used to be for anyone who remembers) towards Urrbrae then loosely along Springbank Road.

The GlobeLink report offers a "Short South" option for further consideration that provides a new freeway from Mount barker to St Marys, and a "Short North" that goes from Mount Barker to Hope Valley (Grand Junction Road).

I'm not old enough to remember before construction of the SE Freeway to know if there was excitement or shock and horror at building a four-lane freeway through the Adelaide Hills productive farmland and market gardens.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4357 Post by mrumley02 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:02 pm

SBD wrote:
mrumley02 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:02 pm
SBD wrote: That was the intent in the vision for the North South Corridor. As far as we have heard, no detailed planning has been undertaken. Liberal is exploring the possibility of deeper tunnels instead of the short cut and cover tunnels, trench and elevated motorway, so we will have to wait and see if that turns out any better cost-wise than GlobeLink did. Of course whoever finishes the North South Motorway now needs to have a plan for linking it to the SE Freeway, and probably extending the freeways along the Dukes, Sturt and Augusta Highways.
My thought was maybe a Shepherds Hill Rd link through Blackwood and on the south of Belair National Park linking to the SE Freeway at Crafers.

But I live North so the terrain isn’t familiar to me
Linking at Crafers really only moves the current steep slope to a different place.

My thought had been to tunnel through from the bend (where the concrete place used to be for anyone who remembers) towards Urrbrae then loosely along Springbank Road.

The GlobeLink report offers a "Short South" option for further consideration that provides a new freeway from Mount barker to St Marys, and a "Short North" that goes from Mount Barker to Hope Valley (Grand Junction Road).

I'm not old enough to remember before construction of the SE Freeway to know if there was excitement or shock and horror at building a four-lane freeway through the Adelaide Hills productive farmland and market gardens.
I think they are more likely to cut through toward Springbank Rd of all the suggestions you’ve listed, as the two GlobeLink options don’t really connect to the new N-S freight corridor.

But the problem isn’t so much with the descent after Crafers, but with the lights at Glen Osmond at the bottom. If the descent tapered back to flat before there was any interaction with other road such that trucks could mitigate their speed their wouldn’t be a real problem.
I’m not an engineer, but potentially a superway-style bridge at the end of the descent to control speed and then descend to at-grade intersections.
For example, a no-exit superway from Glen Osmond to Fullarton Rd where you can then join the traffic flow below. (I know this would never happen but just to give you an example of the idea.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4358 Post by Bacon » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:02 pm

Thinking outside the square, was it ever considered to split the N-S route to reduce the footprint and potentially land acquisition costs?

Example:

Southbound 3 lanes trench/cut and cover from T2T to Tonsley - Following South road alignment
Northbound 3 lanes trench/cut and cover from Darlington to Brooklyn Park, Tunnel from Brooklyn Park to T2T - Following Marion road alignment

Of course the above wouldn't happen now, it would make half the Darlington upgrade redundant.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4359 Post by Eurostar » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:16 pm

Cross Road option I think its too risky for a motorway, whereas if you at least grade separate the Goodwood Road and Unley Road intersections also rail overpass or underpass at Unley Park it will reduce congestion and travel times between Emerson and Glen Osmond. Pair that with Greenhill Road upgrade with overpass/underpass at the intersections at Anzac Highway (combined with Goodwood Road), King William Road, Unley Road, Glen Osmond Road.
Last edited by Eurostar on Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4360 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:33 pm

To my mind, the freight diversion has to start from somewhere before Glen Osmond. The Superway-style elevation might provide different options to a tunnel. but ultimately, the problem remains that things don't stop by themselves while rolling downhill.

I haven't seen or heard a solution that involves a tunnel, bridge or motorway that has attempted to address the fact that the surface continues downhill after the traffic lights. A truck that couldn't stop at those lights is unlikely to be able stop later since it kept going downhill. Glen Osmond and Fullarton Road intersection is EIGHTY metres lower, so is Cross and Unley Roads. Portrush and Greenhill Roads is sixty metres lower. That's about as much altitude difference as the Devils Elbow to mount Osmond interchange (the slope is reduced by about half, but still significant). A tunnel solution gets them down to that level sooner. I'm not sure I want to live, work or shop below a high bridge that could have out of control trucks trying to use the edge fence to slow down before they have to drive off the end.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4361 Post by mrumley02 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:38 pm

SBD wrote:To my mind, the freight diversion has to start from somewhere before Glen Osmond. The Superway-style elevation might provide different options to a tunnel. but ultimately, the problem remains that things don't stop by themselves while rolling downhill.

I haven't seen or heard a solution that involves a tunnel, bridge or motorway that has attempted to address the fact that the surface continues downhill after the traffic lights. A truck that couldn't stop at those lights is unlikely to be able stop later since it kept going downhill. Glen Osmond and Fullarton Road intersection is EIGHTY metres lower, so is Cross and Unley Roads. Portrush and Greenhill Roads is sixty metres lower. That's about as much altitude difference as the Devils Elbow to mount Osmond interchange (the slope is reduced by about half, but still significant). A tunnel solution gets them down to that level sooner. I'm not sure I want to live, work or shop below a high bridge that could have out of control trucks trying to use the edge fence to slow down before they have to drive off the end.
Agreed. The only way to do is to make the descent as gradual as possible by lengthening the travel distance per unit of elevation change.
I don’t know what’s out there but maybe a eastward diversion that winds around elevated style, which A) forces people to slow down, and B) means the slope is more gradual.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4362 Post by SRW » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:45 pm

mrumley02 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:02 pm
I think they are more likely to cut through toward Springbank Rd of all the suggestions you’ve listed, as the two GlobeLink options don’t really connect to the new N-S freight corridor.
Springbank Rd is probably a contender, but it's worth noting that 'Short South' (Mt Barker to St Mary's) actually does connect directly with the N-S corridor, presumably joining somewhere around the Ayliffes Road intersection.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4363 Post by ml69 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:41 pm

Nort wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am
ml69 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:03 pm
Legislate.
That’s a great way to create a competitive efficient economy. Not.
You're really gonna freak out when you find out how the entire state economy was initially built.
So let’s not repeat mistakes of the past and make it harder than it has to be for businesses to operate in this state.

As the KPMG report says that two-thirds of road transport originates or is destined for Victoria, I think a fully duplicated Dukes Hwy to the VIC border should become a regional road priority.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4364 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:21 pm

ml69 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:41 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am
ml69 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm

That’s a great way to create a competitive efficient economy. Not.
You're really gonna freak out when you find out how the entire state economy was initially built.
So let’s not repeat mistakes of the past and make it harder than it has to be for businesses to operate in this state.

As the KPMG report says that two-thirds of road transport originates or is destined for Victoria, I think a fully duplicated Dukes Hwy to the VIC border should become a regional road priority.
Victoria is gradually extending the dual-carriageway part of the Western Highway out towards SA. I think they still have about 280km of single carriageway, with plans to duplicate/replace more of it (but only as far as Stawell, 200km from the border). Our side of the border still has about 190km single, plus the Swanport Bridge.

The sections with the wide painted/rumble median are almost as good to drive on as dual carriageway, and have frequent overtaking lanes.

I'd like to see the Swanport Bridge duplicated, but otherwise I think then next "big thing" would be to extend the dual-carriageway Sturt Highway around Truro and down to the plain, plus give more of the single-carriageway Sturt Highway the same treatment as the Dukes Highway has received. I haven't driven the Augusta Highway recently to know if it has similar treatment or not.

I also suspect that at some stage, the Sturt Highway will need to be re-routed so that it does not cross the Paringa Bridge. Whether that should be a new road swinging south of Loxton, a new bridge near Renmark, or returning to use the north side of the river between Renmark and Wentworth, I have no idea.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#4365 Post by Spotto » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:11 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:21 pm
Victoria is gradually extending the dual-carriageway part of the Western Highway out towards SA. I think they still have about 280km of single carriageway, with plans to duplicate/replace more of it (but only as far as Stawell, 200km from the border). Our side of the border still has about 190km single, plus the Swanport Bridge.

The sections with the wide painted/rumble median are almost as good to drive on as dual carriageway, and have frequent overtaking lanes.

I'd like to see the Swanport Bridge duplicated
Swanport Bridge is a strange anomaly created by cost-cutting; an 80kph single-lane each way bridge flanked on either side by a 110kph dual carriageway two lanes each way. Duplication would obviously mean another two-lane bridge built next to the current one which gets changed into one way both lanes, but it would be a nice little touch if they dug up the original plans and built a lookalike to have two twin bridges.

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