[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

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[U/C] [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4621 Post by Waewick » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:12 pm

I Follow PAFC wrote:North-South tunnels ‘to cost $11bn’
SEE THE VIDEO Tunnels along South Rd to finish the North-South Corridor would cost $11 billion, the construction industry says, and should be dumped. “This is Adelaide, not New York,” they say.

Behind a paywall https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a0e8b2e050
Piss off construction industry, if its best for the state I'm happy.

It shouldn't matter where we live.





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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4622 Post by Norman » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 pm

mrumley02 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:59 pm
I Follow PAFC wrote:North-South tunnels ‘to cost $11bn’
SEE THE VIDEO Tunnels along South Rd to finish the North-South Corridor would cost $11 billion, the construction industry says, and should be dumped. “This is Adelaide, not New York,” they say.

Behind a paywall https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a0e8b2e050
Any way to see this video without paying The Advertiser’s paywall?
It's probably the same video they have been using for months, showing the "ground level" option, the "trench" option and the "tunnel" option, which are all just cut throughs. Nothing detailed.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4623 Post by Spotto » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:52 pm

mrumley02 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:59 pm
Any way to see this video without paying The Advertiser’s paywall?
The video is the source of concept stills that have been released in the past. Video has been capped straight from The Advertiser website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzlIYOhmt_g

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4624 Post by Mr Smith » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:13 am

Norman wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:12 pm
If it is a full tunnel, I believe it will be the longest road tunnel in Australia at 11km. NorthConnex in Sydney is 9km and WestConnex has different tunnels between 7.5km and 9km.

NorthConnex cost $3b, but I guess it wouldn't be comparable to ours because of a different geology.
It will not be tunnelled the full length. stefan Knoll was on 891 this morning discussing bus stop closures. At the end of the interview he was asked about N-S corridor options for the remaing 11km section and said cabinet had RULED OUT a full length tunnel.

He said the 2 options on the table were essentially the original labor option and 2 tunnels, running from end of T2T to north of Anzac hwy and another tunnel running for approx 3kms north from northern end of Darlington project (so presumably Tonsley to north of Daws Rd). As usual, no date on when we will actually find out
:wallbash:

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4625 Post by claybro » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:02 am

Saltwater wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:56 pm
I don’t think many people are calling for a tunnel the full remaining 11km stretch.

The inner west section from the river to Anzac highway is a different story, loads of character houses and a very vocal action group that would be immediately mobilised if there is mass disruption. Worst case a cut & cover tunnel through this section would work if it minimises disruption.
Can't do a cut and cover tunnel because of the need to keep the current corridor open. With the T2T section, the widened sections were used to divert around the trench, eventually becoming the surface road. Leaving the central section operating without any widening will require either a full bored tunnel, or flyover.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4626 Post by rev » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:29 am

Here's the full article..
North-South Corridor tunnels would cost $11 billion and should be abandoned, Civil Construction Federation says
Matt Smith, Political Editor, The Advertiser
June 23, 2020 3:42pm
Subscriber only

’Hurry up and make a decision’, say South Rd traders
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Tunnels for South Australia’s largest infrastructure project should be abandoned because they will come with a price tag of more than $11 billion, the Civil Construction Federation says.

The state’s largest motoring organisation, the RAA, says the State Government should meet expectations halfway with a combination of both tunnels and above-ground roads for the final stages of the North-South corridor.

The State Government is set make an announcement on the troublesome 10.5km stretch that runs through built-up suburbs and commercial districts just north and south of Anzac Highway within weeks.

Three solutions being examined by the State Government are one super tunnel or a

hybrid option that includes traffic returning to the surface between Anzac Highway and Edward St in Melrose Park.

A tunnel-free design is also being examined, which would be similar to the Torrens to Torrens build.

Image
An artist impression of the tunnel exiting on to South Rd.

Vocal residents in the area are calling for the government to adopt the super tunnel to help save as many houses and businesses as possible.

Civil Construction Federation boss Phil Sutherland told The Advertiser tunnels were too expensive and could not be done by locals.

“Constructing a tunnel (using a bored tunnel method) is the most complex, risky, expensive and time consuming of the available engineering options,” Mr Sutherland said.

“The road project needs to reflect the character of our city. This is Adelaide, not Sydney, New York or London.

“A tunnel would come at an estimated cost of $11 billion, twice the cost of continuing the road upgrade using the same engineering design as the already completed sections.”

Mr Sutherland wants the government to go for a hybrid design that will include continuing the corridor upgrade mostly at grade using the current engineering design methodology, and a cut-and-cover method to construct a ‘tunnel’ in designated sections.

“Cut and cover method of tunnel construction is generally used to build shallow tunnels.

“In this method, a trench is cut in the soil and covered by some support material which can be capable of bearing a load on it.”

RAA safety and infrastructure senior manager Charles Mountain said on paper the hybrid model that will include two smaller tunnels seems to be the best solution.

“It offers the best of both worlds,” Mr Mountain said.

“Having the two tunnels will reduce the level of intrusion at ground level, but it also means that there is a range of access points along the section, which we believe is critical as well to enable people to get on and off.”

Mr Mountain said the project, which Treasurer Rob Lucas told The Advertiser would go ahead despite the state’s finances, was very important.

“The sections that have been completed so far have been very successful both in terms of improving traffic flow and attracting people to the corridor,” he said.

“This has a flow-on impact of reducing traffic demand on adjacent corridors.”

Infrastructure Minister Stephan Knoll said: ”After putting tunnels on the table, we are undertaking detailed geotechnical work and want to have as much information as possible before deciding on the biggest job-creating infrastructure project in our state’s history.”
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V4Ky66 ... 7chKc/view
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a0e8b2e050

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4627 Post by bits » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:17 am

The cost in tunnels is not only in construction but also in ongoing maintenance.
It is the lighting, communication systems including repeaters, sprinkler systems, fans and sensors.
And the ongoing costs to test the structures integrity and repair it.
The Hysen tunnels are costing an extra $15million this year for required tunnel safety upgrade works outside of its other ongoing tunnel maintenance costs.

A tunnel should be a last resort option.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4628 Post by how good is he » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:04 pm

Some readers comments in the’Tiser about this.
One suggested a simplistic solution for the remaining 10.5km section is to make South Road one way & four lanes travelling South and Marion Road one way & four lanes travelling North. With only minimal cost of traffic light changes, paint and removing all the median strips. While I know it will never happen, considering it will probably be 10 years+ before they complete it (make a decision, seek funding and then build it), it could work as a short term, interim solution.
Another comment was that the longest and deepest tunnel in the world is in Switzerland and cost around $12 billion. The 57km (35-mile) twin-bore Gotthard completed tunnel travels up to 2.3 km below the surface of the mountains above. Engineers had to dig and blast through 73 different kinds of rock, some as hard as granite. More than 28m tonnes of rock was excavated, which was then broken down to help make the concrete used to make the tunnel.
And in Adelaide for 10.5km a suggested cost of $11b.. or $1billion per km (and the cost will probably blow out.)

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4629 Post by kymbosa » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:17 am

Well the transparent Tiser and government Are clearly at work to stop this project. Today it’s another negative article. People around Australia, wonder why nothing happens in SA; this is why! 🤦‍♂️( Behind paywall.)
204105A2-16F6-4285-A437-0059EBB1D5E4.jpeg
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 83ceda9ac7

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4630 Post by ChillyPhilly » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:34 am

kymbosa wrote:Well the transparent Tiser and government Are clearly at work to stop this project. Today it’s another negative article. People around Australia, wonder why nothing happens in SA; this is why! Image( Behind paywall.)
204105A2-16F6-4285-A437-0059EBB1D5E4.jpeg
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 83ceda9ac7
Property developers don't want the tunnel because they're eyeing the keen real estate that comes from surface-level development.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4631 Post by SRW » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:19 am

kymbosa wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:17 am
Well the transparent Tiser and government Are clearly at work to stop this project. Today it’s another negative article. People around Australia, wonder why nothing happens in SA; this is why! 🤦‍♂️( Behind paywall.)

204105A2-16F6-4285-A437-0059EBB1D5E4.jpeg

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 83ceda9ac7
Yeah, my cynicism is piqued. It's very out of their playbook: front-run the story to soften us up for a negative announcement in a couple of weeks.
Keep Adelaide Weird

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4632 Post by rev » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:48 am

Didnt the government appoint some expert from Victoria to determine what was the best option and make recommendations? I assume she's being paid several hundred thousand at least.

Why bother, just ask these self interest groups and individuals.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4633 Post by Norman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:51 am

rev wrote:Didnt the government appoint some expert from Victoria to determine what was the best option and make recommendations? I assume she's being paid several hundred thousand at least.

Why bother, just ask these self interest groups and individuals.
The Sadvertiser will print anything these days, as long as it fills the blank spaces that used to be filled by real journalists (who have been sacked over time due to falling ad revenues).

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4634 Post by gnrc_louis » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 am

Norman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:51 am
rev wrote:Didnt the government appoint some expert from Victoria to determine what was the best option and make recommendations? I assume she's being paid several hundred thousand at least.

Why bother, just ask these self interest groups and individuals.
The Sadvertiser will print anything these days, as long as it fills the blank spaces that used to be filled by real journalists (who have been sacked over time due to falling ad revenues).
The sooner it crashes and burns and ceases to exist as a paper, the better for all of the State.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#4635 Post by Norman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:49 am

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 am
Norman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:51 am
rev wrote:Didnt the government appoint some expert from Victoria to determine what was the best option and make recommendations? I assume she's being paid several hundred thousand at least.

Why bother, just ask these self interest groups and individuals.
The Sadvertiser will print anything these days, as long as it fills the blank spaces that used to be filled by real journalists (who have been sacked over time due to falling ad revenues).
The sooner it crashes and burns and ceases to exist as a paper, the better for all of the State.
Well, I hope you have made donations to InDaily or another news outlet in Adelaide, because if the Advertiser fails, InDaily doesn't have the reach to reasonably hold the government to account. If both fail, the government can do whatever it wants really.

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