News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2221 Post by rubberman » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:03 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:39 pm
From Australian Business Traveller:
Emirates flights: Adelaide-Dubai

Emirates' sole daily flight between Adelaide and Dubai (EK440/EK441) will drop from a Boeing 777-300ER to the Boeing 777-200LR from October 28 to November 30 2018, as well as February 1 to April 15 2019.

Emirates has yet to advise if this Boeing 777-200LR is one of the jets fitted with the refreshed 2-2-2 business class seats instead of the more common 2-3-2 configuration.

If so, that will be a win for business class passengers but not first class flyers, as the process of upgrading each Boeing 777-200LR sees the first class suites removed.
Cheers
I wonder how the refreshed cabin compares to Singapore's A350. The other alternative for first class passengers might be to use an A380 service. But that would depend on arrival times.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2222 Post by rev » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:10 am

A downgrade by Emirates to cut costs in the face of increased and renewed competition?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2223 Post by Ho Really » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:58 pm

rubberman wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:03 pm
Ho Really wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:39 pm
From Australian Business Traveller:
Emirates flights: Adelaide-Dubai

Emirates' sole daily flight between Adelaide and Dubai (EK440/EK441) will drop from a Boeing 777-300ER to the Boeing 777-200LR from October 28 to November 30 2018, as well as February 1 to April 15 2019.

Emirates has yet to advise if this Boeing 777-200LR is one of the jets fitted with the refreshed 2-2-2 business class seats instead of the more common 2-3-2 configuration.

If so, that will be a win for business class passengers but not first class flyers, as the process of upgrading each Boeing 777-200LR sees the first class suites removed.
Cheers
I wonder how the refreshed cabin compares to Singapore's A350. The other alternative for first class passengers might be to use an A380 service. But that would depend on arrival times.
According to the same article, from where I quoted the above, two A380 flights to Sydney and Melbourne have been cut and replaced with Boeing 777-300ERs. Emirates are also cutting the number of Perth flights, down to 11 flights per week from the two daily. They'll still retain their daily A380 though. Dates for the changes are slightly different for all cities mentioned.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2224 Post by Ho Really » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:59 pm

rev wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:10 am
A downgrade by Emirates to cut costs in the face of increased and renewed competition?
Possible. Qatar is the airline that has cut into Emirates domination of the Adelaide-Middle East-Europe flights. Also Singapore Airlines has slowly regained lost patronage. I think a few people, not a lot, are starting to realise that if they don't need to fly to every destination in Europe they can also fly with Singapore Airlines via Singapore, which as you know rev, Singapore is a much better stopover. Actually Singapore now has made it even easier for Australians at immigration when stopping over. One visit a year is enough, but read the following article Singapore's Frequent Traveller Program eases sign-up rules, again from Australian Business Traveller.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2225 Post by floplo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:30 pm


Ho Really wrote:
. Also Singapore Airlines has slowly regained lost patronage. I think a few people, not a lot, are starting to realise that if they don't need to fly to every destination in Europe they can also fly with Singapore Airlines via Singapore, which as you know rev, Singapore is a much better stopover.

Cheers
Curious why you think Singapore is a much better stopover? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don’t think the difference is really substantial (unless you talk about stopovers in terms of multi-day leave the airport ones)

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2226 Post by Ho Really » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:50 pm

floplo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:30 pm

Curious why you think Singapore is a much better stopover? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don’t think the difference is really substantial (unless you talk about stopovers in terms of multi-day leave the airport ones)
Not the right place to discuss this as we'll go off track. In short I mean a day or more. No transiting/layover. Even then many will say Changi is the better option.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2227 Post by Algernon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:05 am

Ho Really wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:50 pm
floplo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:30 pm

Curious why you think Singapore is a much better stopover? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don’t think the difference is really substantial (unless you talk about stopovers in terms of multi-day leave the airport ones)
Not the right place to discuss this as we'll go off track. In short I mean a day or more. No transiting/layover. Even then many will say Changi is the better option.

Cheers
For most it all comes down to price. When I fly from Adelaide to central Europe, I can get a Qatar fare for close to 1k or a Qantas/Emirates usually for 1900-2700. Turkish Airways can come in even cheaper (but I won't go that far to save 50 bucks).

No airline with a SE Asian stopover is even in the game for many European travelers, for both price and flight duration. 10 years ago I was doing Adelaide-Prague in 40 hours with Malaysia/Sinagpore. Now it's 23 hours with either Qatar or Emirates and half the price.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2228 Post by dbl96 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm

Algernon wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:05 am
Ho Really wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:50 pm
floplo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:30 pm

Curious why you think Singapore is a much better stopover? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don’t think the difference is really substantial (unless you talk about stopovers in terms of multi-day leave the airport ones)
Not the right place to discuss this as we'll go off track. In short I mean a day or more. No transiting/layover. Even then many will say Changi is the better option.

Cheers
For most it all comes down to price. When I fly from Adelaide to central Europe, I can get a Qatar fare for close to 1k or a Qantas/Emirates usually for 1900-2700. Turkish Airways can come in even cheaper (but I won't go that far to save 50 bucks).

No airline with a SE Asian stopover is even in the game for many European travelers, for both price and flight duration. 10 years ago I was doing Adelaide-Prague in 40 hours with Malaysia/Sinagpore. Now it's 23 hours with either Qatar or Emirates and half the price.
Why is it so much quicker to go by the Middle East? A quick look at a map will tell you that the route via Singapore/Malaysia is significantly more direct.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2229 Post by SBD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:46 pm

dbl96 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm
Algernon wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:05 am
Ho Really wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:50 pm


Not the right place to discuss this as we'll go off track. In short I mean a day or more. No transiting/layover. Even then many will say Changi is the better option.

Cheers
For most it all comes down to price. When I fly from Adelaide to central Europe, I can get a Qatar fare for close to 1k or a Qantas/Emirates usually for 1900-2700. Turkish Airways can come in even cheaper (but I won't go that far to save 50 bucks).

No airline with a SE Asian stopover is even in the game for many European travelers, for both price and flight duration. 10 years ago I was doing Adelaide-Prague in 40 hours with Malaysia/Sinagpore. Now it's 23 hours with either Qatar or Emirates and half the price.
Why is it so much quicker to go by the Middle East? A quick look at a map will tell you that the route via Singapore/Malaysia is significantly more direct.
A quick glance at Google Maps showing the great circle line from Adelaide to Prague does go quite close to Singapore. What it doesn't show is any flight restrictions on the rest of the route Singapore-Prague. Is there any restriction on choosing to fly over: central India, central Pakistan,, southern Afghanistan, northern Iran, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Crimean Peninsula (does Australia recognise that as Russia or Ukraine?), Moldova, Slovakia? If any of those present no-fly zones to the route or airline then a southern detour quite likely results in a path closer to Dubai (but then Iraq, Syria, Israel and Turkey get to be considered too).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2230 Post by rev » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:06 pm

Flight paths and the quickest line you can draw on google maps are two different things.

Adelaide to Prague varies a couple hundred dollars between Qatar and Singapore, and a stop over or two.

It all depends who you want to fly with and what you want to support.

That aside, I’d much rather fly with Singapore, even if it means a stop over in Munich, Frankfurt, or London, then fly again with one of the gulf carriers. At least I know I’ll be able to wipe my ass with toilet paper if I need to use the amenities and not stand in a pool of water from other people washing their asses with a hoses after using the toilet.

It’s the simple things we take for granted that make the difference and make that couple extra hundred dollars a non factor. Plus Singapore is so much nicer, and the people much friendlier and hospitable.

Besides if you’re going to Europe and have to stop over in a European city before your final destination, why not take the opportunity to add to your travels and stay a few days?

What are you going to do in the gulf countries? Go ride on a camels back? Go for a 4wd trip into the desert to look at...sand? Visit a mega mall and see tye same concept we have hear and that is seen all over the world?


As for restrictions, airlines will flying around war zones. Having said that I’ve flown pretty close to Iraq while they were bombing the shit out of it and tomahawks were freely flying.
From memory the route taken by SIA from Singapore to Athens was out over the Indian Ocean, partly over India and across the Gulf and out into the East Med over Cyprus and over the Aegean and the Greek islands.

Western military aircraft and their command and control structures identify civilian air traffic. It’s the rogue dictators and terror groups, funded by quite a few of the gulf states mind you, that you need to worry about.
Civilian air traffic has continued for decades around the Middle East and over it while there’s been one war after the next. While concerning I don’t think it’s that much of a worry because as I said airlines will go around the war zone. MH17 is an anomaly as to why it was flying over Crimea during an active war where both sides are firing off SAM’s at each other’s aircraft.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2231 Post by Algernon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:05 pm

SBD wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:46 pm
dbl96 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm
Algernon wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:05 am

For most it all comes down to price. When I fly from Adelaide to central Europe, I can get a Qatar fare for close to 1k or a Qantas/Emirates usually for 1900-2700. Turkish Airways can come in even cheaper (but I won't go that far to save 50 bucks).

No airline with a SE Asian stopover is even in the game for many European travelers, for both price and flight duration. 10 years ago I was doing Adelaide-Prague in 40 hours with Malaysia/Sinagpore. Now it's 23 hours with either Qatar or Emirates and half the price.
Why is it so much quicker to go by the Middle East? A quick look at a map will tell you that the route via Singapore/Malaysia is significantly more direct.
A quick glance at Google Maps showing the great circle line from Adelaide to Prague does go quite close to Singapore. What it doesn't show is any flight restrictions on the rest of the route Singapore-Prague. Is there any restriction on choosing to fly over: central India, central Pakistan,, southern Afghanistan, northern Iran, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Crimean Peninsula (does Australia recognise that as Russia or Ukraine?), Moldova, Slovakia? If any of those present no-fly zones to the route or airline then a southern detour quite likely results in a path closer to Dubai (but then Iraq, Syria, Israel and Turkey get to be considered too).
Different airlines will simply target different destinations with their more direct offerings, then fill in the gaps by using more stopovers. So in the case of Adelaide to Prague, Emirates and Qatar target that business directly with a single stopover, Singapore indirectly with 2 stopovers (i.e. Singapore + Munich). That's the difference. Since the gulf airlines came to Adelaide it has been nothing short of a revolution. My first trips were Adelaide-KL-London-Prague and 2 days in NoSleepVille, now they're 23 hours with a 2 hour layover in spacious airports that utterly destroy London and the Munich "Rubik's" Airport for ease of transfers.

When we fly up with either Qatar or Emirates (and probably others but I have no experience), the flight path hugs the border between Iraq and Iran, then flies over Iraq (East of Baghdad) then flies over the NE tip of Syria either in Syrian airspace or along the border for a relatively short time. It may sound bad, but Singapore flies over Syria for a way longer duration and almost over the (former) ISIS capital Al Raqqah. All then continue on over Turkey until reaching Europe.

Off topic, only a few Stans and dictatorships (North Korea, Venuzuela, Cuba et al) recognise Crimea as part of Russia.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2232 Post by crawf » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:29 pm

Came across this article...
Cathay Pacific has announced increased frequencies on some of its most popular routes: Adelaide, Frankfurt, Madrid and Tokyo.

It will also add a sixth weekly flight from Hong Kong from October 28, 2018 to Adelaide in southern Australia. In addition to providing the additional service, operated by Airbus A330-300 , it introduces a new schedule to Adelaide, giving three weekly flights from Hong Kong during the night and three early in the morning. From Adelaide, flights run from early morning departures to late afternoon and late afternoon departures . "This split program gives customers more choice and improved connectivity to and from European destinations via our Hong Kong hub," Cathay's release said.

http://www.air-journal.fr/2018-10-06-ca ... 05697.html

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2233 Post by Ho Really » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:51 pm

Algernon wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:05 pm
[...]

...but Singapore flies over Syria for a way longer duration and almost over the (former) ISIS capital Al Raqqah. All then continue on over Turkey until reaching Europe.

[...]
Singapore Airlines doesn''t fly over Syria. I fly with them exclusively. The closest I've come to Syria is flying northwest over the Straits of Hormuz, with Bandar Abbas (Iran) just below us to our left and the glow of Dubai over on the horizon then along the border with Iraq into Turkey over Ankara, Thessaloniki (Greece) and so on. In the days before 9-11 planes would fly more regularly over Syria, Lebanon onto Cyprus etc., avoiding Iraq. Most flights from Singapore Airlines fly over India, Pakistan, northern Iran, the Caucausus, northern Turkey or further north over the Caspian amd Black Seas or the Ukraine. For flights to northern Europe such as, Copenhagen, Moscow and Stockholm they avoid even Iran.

As for flying Qatar and Emirates. It's more handy for you since they have shorter distances to fly to the European capitals. SIA, MAS, Cathay Pacific, the Chinese, South Korean, Japanese and other east Asian carriers cannot match them on frequency and ports. Price-wise there isn't a huge difference between the ME3 and the Asians. People like rev and me prefer SIA, we have our reasons.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2234 Post by Ho Really » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:52 pm

crawf wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:29 pm
Came across this article...
Cathay Pacific has announced increased frequencies on some of its most popular routes: Adelaide, Frankfurt, Madrid and Tokyo.

It will also add a sixth weekly flight from Hong Kong from October 28, 2018 to Adelaide in southern Australia. In addition to providing the additional service, operated by Airbus A330-300 , it introduces a new schedule to Adelaide, giving three weekly flights from Hong Kong during the night and three early in the morning. From Adelaide, flights run from early morning departures to late afternoon and late afternoon departures . "This split program gives customers more choice and improved connectivity to and from European destinations via our Hong Kong hub," Cathay's release said.

http://www.air-journal.fr/2018-10-06-ca ... 05697.html
Old news. It was announced earlier this year.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2235 Post by JAKJ » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:04 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:06 pm
Civilian air traffic has continued for decades around the Middle East and over it while there’s been one war after the next. While concerning I don’t think it’s that much of a worry because as I said airlines will go around the war zone. MH17 is an anomaly as to why it was flying over Crimea during an active war where both sides are firing off SAM’s at each other’s aircraft.
As much as I also like SQ, there was an SQ flight about 20/30 minutes difference to the MH flight flying the exact same route... I think QF was one of the few airlines who had actually did a proper risk analysis and avoided that airspace.

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