News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

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ml69
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2371 Post by ml69 » Sat May 25, 2019 2:05 am

how good is he wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:18 pm
I can’t see it happening for passengers .. it’s just too far away with our relatively small population & amount of flights. The time to travel there/back won’t justify it. I think it will be hard enough getting the business model to justify the $1bn-$2bn spend. Can I ask the forum, why do you think freight companies will want to go there anyway?
The whole Globelink idea is an expensive, unnecessary folly. Adelaide Airport is superbly located, and will in less than 10 years time be connected to the N-S Motorway.

Money that would be spent on Globelink should be should be directed to connecting the SE Freeway to the N-S Motorway.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2372 Post by SBD » Sat May 25, 2019 6:37 pm

ml69 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:05 am
how good is he wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:18 pm
I can’t see it happening for passengers .. it’s just too far away with our relatively small population & amount of flights. The time to travel there/back won’t justify it. I think it will be hard enough getting the business model to justify the $1bn-$2bn spend. Can I ask the forum, why do you think freight companies will want to go there anyway?
The whole Globelink idea is an expensive, unnecessary folly. Adelaide Airport is superbly located, and will in less than 10 years time be connected to the N-S Motorway.

Money that would be spent on Globelink should be should be directed to connecting the SE Freeway to the N-S Motorway.
The freeway and airport of GlobeLink are incidental to the key point of the railway. It will be a slight improvement to rail freight between Melbourne and Adelaide, but more significant for rail freight between Melbourne and Perth/Darwin. Putting in a freeway in the same corridor at the same time makes sense, but is unlikely to be a significant economic driver on its own.

I have trouble seeing the airport as cost-effective, but I imagine that its value will be in exporting fresh lobsters, along with meat and vegetables that would otherwise have to be hauled over the Mount Lofty Ranges to Adelaide, if they are exported at all.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2373 Post by Patrick_27 » Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am

Spotto wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm
SBD wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:19 pm
Listy wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:58 am
... I wouldn't be surprised if the airport corporation is quietly doing everything they possibly can to make sure the Globelink plan is umm, permanently grounded.
Adelaide Airport Limited seems to be owned by a bunch of superannuation and investment companies. If the state government decides there is sufficient need and interest in having an airport at Monarto, I imagine that AAL (who already operates Parafield as well as Adelaide) might be in a position and interested to expand, rather than compete.

Most of the state's sea ports are all operated by the one company. It would be up to the government to consider the efficiency benefit of AAL running it versus the benefit of market competition.
If a Monarto Airport ever, ahem, "took off", and assuming the proposals of an intercity fast train project went ahead (corridor would also replace the current freight line) aligned to SEF with trains to Murray Bridge in an estimated 30-45min, could a Monarto Airport for freight AND passengers replace Adelaide Airport as our primary airport, similar to Tullamarine replacing Essendon?

Current drive time from Adelaide CBD to the former Monarto South station can vary 45-60 min depending on peak traffic; the SEF drive from Crafers to Monarto South averages only 30 min. Drive from Melbourne CBD to Airport via Citylink Tollway and Tullamarine Freeway averages 20-30 min. Assuming the project is feasible and already funded, if the train runs from Adelaide-Mitcham express, a tunnel and overpass system up to Crafers (no stop), then stopping only at Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Mount Barker then alternating trains branch to Airport and Murray Bridge. Including the benefit of not having to drive, how attractive does everybody reckon would that be?

Just curious as a thought experiment.
If Adelaide Airport were to ever move, I could see more logic in Edinburgh being considered. Aside from the abundance of available land in and around site, it's got the locality of a freeway-grade road (soon to be connected entirely with the north and south of Adelaide) and rail both of which could very easily be directly connected to the site. Further to that, there's no reasons that RAAF couldn't still operate out of the site (like they do in Brisbane), otherwise move the defence component out to a new airport (perhaps at Monarto?). How to fund it? Sell the existing Adelaide Airport site to property developers, at a glance, you could probably create at-least three or four new suburbs out of the area.

But as mentioned moving the airport is an unnecessary expense and it makes too much sense to keep it where it currently is, but IF they ever were to consider it, that's my take on what could and should happen.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2374 Post by ml69 » Sun May 26, 2019 12:17 am

SBD wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:37 pm
The freeway and airport of GlobeLink are incidental to the key point of the railway. It will be a slight improvement to rail freight between Melbourne and Adelaide, but more significant for rail freight between Melbourne and Perth/Darwin. Putting in a freeway in the same corridor at the same time makes sense, but is unlikely to be a significant economic driver on its own.

I have trouble seeing the airport as cost-effective, but I imagine that its value will be in exporting fresh lobsters, along with meat and vegetables that would otherwise have to be hauled over the Mount Lofty Ranges to Adelaide, if they are exported at all.
Sure if exports are sourced from east of the Mt Lofty Ranges there is a time saving with a Monarto Airport. But for exports sourced from anywhere else, it would take longer than the current set up at Adelaide Airport. We are about to complete high speed freight links to the airport with the N-S Motorway.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2375 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sun May 26, 2019 7:58 pm

Spotto wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm

If a Monarto Airport ever, ahem, "took off", and assuming the proposals of an intercity fast train project went ahead (corridor would also replace the current freight line) aligned to SEF with trains to Murray Bridge in an estimated 30-45min, could a Monarto Airport for freight AND passengers replace Adelaide Airport as our primary airport, similar to Tullamarine replacing Essendon?

Current drive time from Adelaide CBD to the former Monarto South station can vary 45-60 min depending on peak traffic; the SEF drive from Crafers to Monarto South averages only 30 min. Drive from Melbourne CBD to Airport via Citylink Tollway and Tullamarine Freeway averages 20-30 min. Assuming the project is feasible and already funded, if the train runs from Adelaide-Mitcham express, a tunnel and overpass system up to Crafers (no stop), then stopping only at Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Mount Barker then alternating trains branch to Airport and Murray Bridge. Including the benefit of not having to drive, how attractive does everybody reckon would that be?

Just curious as a thought experiment.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think a high speed bus would be a good idea to connect Adelaide-Monarto (if the airport is built.) O-Bahn technology is capable of 165 km/h and a trolleybus would have enough power to do that. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0 Paint bus lanes on Glen Osmond Road and put the O-Bahn track in the centre of the freeway. It is much shorter than the railway alignment.
Patrick_27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am
If Adelaide Airport were to ever move, I could see more logic in Edinburgh being considered. Aside from the abundance of available land in and around site, it's got the locality of a freeway-grade road (soon to be connected entirely with the north and south of Adelaide) and rail both of which could very easily be directly connected to the site. Further to that, there's no reasons that RAAF couldn't still operate out of the site (like they do in Brisbane), otherwise move the defence component out to a new airport (perhaps at Monarto?). How to fund it? Sell the existing Adelaide Airport site to property developers, at a glance, you could probably create at-least three or four new suburbs out of the area.

But as mentioned moving the airport is an unnecessary expense and it makes too much sense to keep it where it currently is, but IF they ever were to consider it, that's my take on what could and should happen.
I agree with re-purposing Edinburgh, it's much cheaper than building a new airport and it's closer to Adelaide than Monarto.

They could use both Adelaide and Edinburgh for civil aviation. Passengers fly out of Adelaide and all other traffic out of Edinburgh. Edinburgh could still be a military base since I doubt the civil traffic will be that great.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2376 Post by cmet » Mon May 27, 2019 12:38 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Spotto wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm

If a Monarto Airport ever, ahem, "took off", and assuming the proposals of an intercity fast train project went ahead (corridor would also replace the current freight line) aligned to SEF with trains to Murray Bridge in an estimated 30-45min, could a Monarto Airport for freight AND passengers replace Adelaide Airport as our primary airport, similar to Tullamarine replacing Essendon?

Current drive time from Adelaide CBD to the former Monarto South station can vary 45-60 min depending on peak traffic; the SEF drive from Crafers to Monarto South averages only 30 min. Drive from Melbourne CBD to Airport via Citylink Tollway and Tullamarine Freeway averages 20-30 min. Assuming the project is feasible and already funded, if the train runs from Adelaide-Mitcham express, a tunnel and overpass system up to Crafers (no stop), then stopping only at Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Mount Barker then alternating trains branch to Airport and Murray Bridge. Including the benefit of not having to drive, how attractive does everybody reckon would that be?

Just curious as a thought experiment.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think a high speed bus would be a good idea to connect Adelaide-Monarto (if the airport is built.) O-Bahn technology is capable of 165 km/h and a trolleybus would have enough power to do that. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0 Paint bus lanes on Glen Osmond Road and put the O-Bahn track in the centre of the freeway. It is much shorter than the railway alignment.
Patrick_27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am
If Adelaide Airport were to ever move, I could see more logic in Edinburgh being considered. Aside from the abundance of available land in and around site, it's got the locality of a freeway-grade road (soon to be connected entirely with the north and south of Adelaide) and rail both of which could very easily be directly connected to the site. Further to that, there's no reasons that RAAF couldn't still operate out of the site (like they do in Brisbane), otherwise move the defence component out to a new airport (perhaps at Monarto?). How to fund it? Sell the existing Adelaide Airport site to property developers, at a glance, you could probably create at-least three or four new suburbs out of the area.

But as mentioned moving the airport is an unnecessary expense and it makes too much sense to keep it where it currently is, but IF they ever were to consider it, that's my take on what could and should happen.
I agree with re-purposing Edinburgh, it's much cheaper than building a new airport and it's closer to Adelaide than Monarto.

They could use both Adelaide and Edinburgh for civil aviation. Passengers fly out of Adelaide and all other traffic out of Edinburgh. Edinburgh could still be a military base since I doubt the civil traffic will be that great.
I’m just Thinking about how scary it would be in a bus going 165kph


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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2377 Post by Brucetiki » Mon May 27, 2019 2:20 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:58 pm
Spotto wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm

If a Monarto Airport ever, ahem, "took off", and assuming the proposals of an intercity fast train project went ahead (corridor would also replace the current freight line) aligned to SEF with trains to Murray Bridge in an estimated 30-45min, could a Monarto Airport for freight AND passengers replace Adelaide Airport as our primary airport, similar to Tullamarine replacing Essendon?

Current drive time from Adelaide CBD to the former Monarto South station can vary 45-60 min depending on peak traffic; the SEF drive from Crafers to Monarto South averages only 30 min. Drive from Melbourne CBD to Airport via Citylink Tollway and Tullamarine Freeway averages 20-30 min. Assuming the project is feasible and already funded, if the train runs from Adelaide-Mitcham express, a tunnel and overpass system up to Crafers (no stop), then stopping only at Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Mount Barker then alternating trains branch to Airport and Murray Bridge. Including the benefit of not having to drive, how attractive does everybody reckon would that be?

Just curious as a thought experiment.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think a high speed bus would be a good idea to connect Adelaide-Monarto (if the airport is built.) O-Bahn technology is capable of 165 km/h and a trolleybus would have enough power to do that. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0 Paint bus lanes on Glen Osmond Road and put the O-Bahn track in the centre of the freeway. It is much shorter than the railway alignment.
Patrick_27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am
If Adelaide Airport were to ever move, I could see more logic in Edinburgh being considered. Aside from the abundance of available land in and around site, it's got the locality of a freeway-grade road (soon to be connected entirely with the north and south of Adelaide) and rail both of which could very easily be directly connected to the site. Further to that, there's no reasons that RAAF couldn't still operate out of the site (like they do in Brisbane), otherwise move the defence component out to a new airport (perhaps at Monarto?). How to fund it? Sell the existing Adelaide Airport site to property developers, at a glance, you could probably create at-least three or four new suburbs out of the area.

But as mentioned moving the airport is an unnecessary expense and it makes too much sense to keep it where it currently is, but IF they ever were to consider it, that's my take on what could and should happen.
I agree with re-purposing Edinburgh, it's much cheaper than building a new airport and it's closer to Adelaide than Monarto.

They could use both Adelaide and Edinburgh for civil aviation. Passengers fly out of Adelaide and all other traffic out of Edinburgh. Edinburgh could still be a military base since I doubt the civil traffic will be that great.
When Jetstar first started they investigated flying out of Edinburgh (in a similar vein to how they only operated out of Avalon in Melbourne before Tiger came in), but the Howard Government quickly shut down the proposal.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2378 Post by how good is he » Mon May 27, 2019 5:20 pm

I know it may not happen or be commercially viable but an air-strip is/was planned for Motorsport Park at Tailem Bend. I think the drag strip was to be able to double as the runway. Not sure on the size of plane that could take-off/land but the owners were wanting a train station built out the front as its on the existing rail line to/from Adelaide to Melbourne. Anyone know if there is any progress to any of this?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2379 Post by rev » Mon May 27, 2019 7:11 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:20 pm
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:58 pm
Spotto wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm

If a Monarto Airport ever, ahem, "took off", and assuming the proposals of an intercity fast train project went ahead (corridor would also replace the current freight line) aligned to SEF with trains to Murray Bridge in an estimated 30-45min, could a Monarto Airport for freight AND passengers replace Adelaide Airport as our primary airport, similar to Tullamarine replacing Essendon?

Current drive time from Adelaide CBD to the former Monarto South station can vary 45-60 min depending on peak traffic; the SEF drive from Crafers to Monarto South averages only 30 min. Drive from Melbourne CBD to Airport via Citylink Tollway and Tullamarine Freeway averages 20-30 min. Assuming the project is feasible and already funded, if the train runs from Adelaide-Mitcham express, a tunnel and overpass system up to Crafers (no stop), then stopping only at Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Mount Barker then alternating trains branch to Airport and Murray Bridge. Including the benefit of not having to drive, how attractive does everybody reckon would that be?

Just curious as a thought experiment.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think a high speed bus would be a good idea to connect Adelaide-Monarto (if the airport is built.) O-Bahn technology is capable of 165 km/h and a trolleybus would have enough power to do that. http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0 Paint bus lanes on Glen Osmond Road and put the O-Bahn track in the centre of the freeway. It is much shorter than the railway alignment.
Patrick_27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am
If Adelaide Airport were to ever move, I could see more logic in Edinburgh being considered. Aside from the abundance of available land in and around site, it's got the locality of a freeway-grade road (soon to be connected entirely with the north and south of Adelaide) and rail both of which could very easily be directly connected to the site. Further to that, there's no reasons that RAAF couldn't still operate out of the site (like they do in Brisbane), otherwise move the defence component out to a new airport (perhaps at Monarto?). How to fund it? Sell the existing Adelaide Airport site to property developers, at a glance, you could probably create at-least three or four new suburbs out of the area.

But as mentioned moving the airport is an unnecessary expense and it makes too much sense to keep it where it currently is, but IF they ever were to consider it, that's my take on what could and should happen.
I agree with re-purposing Edinburgh, it's much cheaper than building a new airport and it's closer to Adelaide than Monarto.

They could use both Adelaide and Edinburgh for civil aviation. Passengers fly out of Adelaide and all other traffic out of Edinburgh. Edinburgh could still be a military base since I doubt the civil traffic will be that great.
When Jetstar first started they investigated flying out of Edinburgh (in a similar vein to how they only operated out of Avalon in Melbourne before Tiger came in), but the Howard Government quickly shut down the proposal.
There will never be regular commercial passenger flights in and out of a military base. Especially not in this day and age with terrorism as a major security concern.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2380 Post by rogue » Mon May 27, 2019 7:33 pm

Darwin
Newcastle
Exmouth
Townsville
Last edited by rogue on Mon May 27, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2381 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon May 27, 2019 7:40 pm

rev wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:11 pm
There will never be regular commercial passenger flights in and out of a military base. Especially not in this day and age with terrorism as a major security concern.
Actually there are regular commercial flights out of at least three RAAF bases:
  • RAAF Base Townsville is shared with Townsville International Airport
  • RAAF Base Darwin is shared with Darwin International Airport
  • RAAF Base Williamtown is shared with Newcastle Airport
There is no reason RAAF Base Edinburgh couldn't share with civil traffic.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2382 Post by SouthAussie94 » Tue May 28, 2019 12:45 am

cmet wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:38 am

I’m just Thinking about how scary it would be in a bus going 165kph

I think it was called The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2383 Post by rev » Tue May 28, 2019 10:43 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:40 pm
rev wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:11 pm
There will never be regular commercial passenger flights in and out of a military base. Especially not in this day and age with terrorism as a major security concern.
Actually there are regular commercial flights out of at least three RAAF bases:
  • RAAF Base Townsville is shared with Townsville International Airport
  • RAAF Base Darwin is shared with Darwin International Airport
  • RAAF Base Williamtown is shared with Newcastle Airport
There is no reason RAAF Base Edinburgh couldn't share with civil traffic.
Yeh ok, I should have worded that better..as in there will never be regular civilian air traffic in/out of RAAF Edinburgh.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2384 Post by Ho Really » Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 pm

rev wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:43 am
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:40 pm
rev wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:11 pm
There will never be regular commercial passenger flights in and out of a military base. Especially not in this day and age with terrorism as a major security concern.
Actually there are regular commercial flights out of at least three RAAF bases:
  • RAAF Base Townsville is shared with Townsville International Airport
  • RAAF Base Darwin is shared with Darwin International Airport
  • RAAF Base Williamtown is shared with Newcastle Airport
There is no reason RAAF Base Edinburgh couldn't share with civil traffic.
Yeh ok, I should have worded that better..as in there will never be regular civilian air traffic in/out of RAAF Edinburgh.
There's shouldn't be any discussion to use RAAF Edinburgh as a civilian/passenger airport. I think if we expand defence technology it would be best for RAAF Edinburgh to be a restricted area. Besides Adelaide Airport is the best option and will be for many, many years to come. Of course RAAF Edinburgh is ideally located if the RAAF should leave. It has plenty of space to expand, a highway link and rail close by. Perhaps something to think about in the distant future if economics stack up and the technology of flight doesn't change (vertical takeoffs).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2385 Post by aceman » Tue May 28, 2019 8:51 pm

are people here aware that there is a full strength infantry battalion (7RAR) as well as supporting units based at Edinburgh with infrastructure that is only about 10 years old. they're not leaving anytime soon.

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