News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2536 Post by Ho Really » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:24 am

adelaide transport wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:22 am
Current view is still the same as yesterday, blurry colour.
Was about to post this...you beat me with the comment.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2537 Post by rev » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm

Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2538 Post by Norman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Any new route would be welcome, it might even bring some potential new tourism to our market. India is one of the fastest growing countries in the world, and a good proportion of the people are becoming more wealthy.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2539 Post by aceman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:29 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm
Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.
lesser option? india has population of a billion people..

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2540 Post by ghs » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 pm

Norman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Any new route would be welcome, it might even bring some potential new tourism to our market. India is one of the fastest growing countries in the world, and a good proportion of the people are becoming more wealthy.
Indian people are becoming more wealthy ?
It's one of the poorest countries in the world mate.

According to the SA government, Adelaide - Delhi is possible because of Adelaide oval and the wineries.
That's Rubbish - most Indian people don't drink.

Perth is significantly bigger than Adelaide and doesn't have a direct flight to India.
We really must be struggling to attract international airlines if we're starting to think about Delhi being our
next destination.

The state government is a joke.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2541 Post by Ho Really » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:58 pm

aceman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:29 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm
Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.
lesser option? india has population of a billion people..
It is the lesser option in the sense more Australians go to the USA than India and American tourists spend money here. Still India is a huge developing market that shouldn't be overlooked. At present most who fly between India and Australia are family members reuniting. Well off Indians may even visit once a year vice-versa.

A direct link would be awesome. The only issue is which airline and to which city in India? As airlines go, there are only two that are currently making any money: IndiGo (low cost-carrier) and Vistara (full-service). IndiGo the bigger of the two, is slowly putting together international routes. Most don't venture far as their fleet is comprised of single aisle planes, A320s and A321neos. That makes them doubtful choosing Adelaide anytime soon.

Vistara is a joint venture between Singapore Airlines and Tata Brothers. They're in a slightly different position as they've ordered Boeing 787-9s to bolster their fleet of A320s, A321neos and 737-800s (acquired from Jet Airways). The 787 Dreamliners will be delivered in 2020 and will be capable of making it to Australia. There have been rumours, so perhaps.

Lastly loss-making national carrier Air India. They already service Melbourne and Sydney. Doubtful in the short term. There was also Etihad stable-mate Jet Airways. Since last mentioning them in this thread they have gone bankrupt. That leaves QANTAS. Their interest is elsewhere so very doubtful.

Where would Vistara go first if the rumours are true? Logically Sydney or Melbourne. A good pairing would be with Bengaluru, the IT capital of India. Otherwise Delhi (Vistara, IndiGo and Air India hubs) and Mumbai (IndiGo operating base and Air India secondary hub).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2542 Post by Ho Really » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:09 am

ghs wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 pm
Norman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Any new route would be welcome, it might even bring some potential new tourism to our market. India is one of the fastest growing countries in the world, and a good proportion of the people are becoming more wealthy.
Indian people are becoming more wealthy ?
It's one of the poorest countries in the world mate.

According to the SA government, Adelaide - Delhi is possible because of Adelaide oval and the wineries.
That's Rubbish - most Indian people don't drink.

Perth is significantly bigger than Adelaide and doesn't have a direct flight to India.
We really must be struggling to attract international airlines if we're starting to think about Delhi being our
next destination.

The state government is a joke.
Yes Indians are becoming more wealthy. Even if we got a small percentage of their population it still could be 1 million visitors over several years it would be amazing. As for Indians drinking, yes they do love alcohol and they do party. Perth may be bigger than Adelaide but you need to look at the number of Indians living in each city. Yes it is possible Perth will get a flight before us but that doesn't mean we won't get one in future. Planning routes don't happen overnight it takes time and better that our state government put out the feelers at every opportunity, such as at World Routes being staged here in Adelaide currently.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2543 Post by rev » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:42 am

aceman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:29 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm
Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.
lesser option? india has population of a billion people..
They could have 10 billion people, it would still be the lesser option.

The worlds biggest spending tourists are, in order
Chinese
American
Germans
British
French
(Australians)
Canadians
Russians
South Koreans
Italians
Hong Kongers
Singaporeans
Spaniards
Belgians
Dutch

It would be more beneficial to South Australia in terms of tourism to establish better connections, or direct flights, or more where they already exist, with North American, China, Europe and the wealthy Asian countries, as a priority before places like India.
You want to boost tourism? Why the heck would you look to one of the poorest countries on the planet instead of some of the wealthiest who also have the highest spending tourists?
India poverty rate for 2011 was 86.80%, a 3.8% decline from 2009.
India poverty rate for 2009 was 90.60%, a 1.9% decline from 2004.
India poverty rate for 2004 was 92.50%, a 2.8% decline from 1993.
India poverty rate for 1993 was 95.30%, a 0.2% decline from 1987.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/I ... verty-rate

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/th ... -the-world
Scroll down to the list...and let's be serious..

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2544 Post by SBD » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 am

rev wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:42 am
aceman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:29 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm
Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.
lesser option? india has population of a billion people..
They could have 10 billion people, it would still be the lesser option.

The worlds biggest spending tourists are, in order
Chinese
American
Germans
British
French
(Australians)
Canadians
Russians
South Koreans
Italians
Hong Kongers
Singaporeans
Spaniards
Belgians
Dutch

It would be more beneficial to South Australia in terms of tourism to establish better connections, or direct flights, or more where they already exist, with North American, China, Europe and the wealthy Asian countries, as a priority before places like India.
You want to boost tourism? Why the heck would you look to one of the poorest countries on the planet instead of some of the wealthiest who also have the highest spending tourists?
India poverty rate for 2011 was 86.80%, a 3.8% decline from 2009.
India poverty rate for 2009 was 90.60%, a 1.9% decline from 2004.
India poverty rate for 2004 was 92.50%, a 2.8% decline from 1993.
India poverty rate for 1993 was 95.30%, a 0.2% decline from 1987.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/I ... verty-rate

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/th ... -the-world
Scroll down to the list...and let's be serious..
So on those numbers and a population of 1.339 billion, there are "only" about 176 million Indians who are not poor. It doesn't take a very large percentage of those to decide to take their next overseas holiday or business venture to be in Adelaide instead of somewhere else to make it worth someone putting a plane on a few times a week. If that is not a big enough potential market, then no international airline would bother flying to Australia at all!

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2545 Post by SRW » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:30 am

SBD wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 am
rev wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:42 am
aceman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:29 pm


lesser option? india has population of a billion people..
They could have 10 billion people, it would still be the lesser option.

The worlds biggest spending tourists are, in order
Chinese
American
Germans
British
French
(Australians)
Canadians
Russians
South Koreans
Italians
Hong Kongers
Singaporeans
Spaniards
Belgians
Dutch

It would be more beneficial to South Australia in terms of tourism to establish better connections, or direct flights, or more where they already exist, with North American, China, Europe and the wealthy Asian countries, as a priority before places like India.
You want to boost tourism? Why the heck would you look to one of the poorest countries on the planet instead of some of the wealthiest who also have the highest spending tourists?
India poverty rate for 2011 was 86.80%, a 3.8% decline from 2009.
India poverty rate for 2009 was 90.60%, a 1.9% decline from 2004.
India poverty rate for 2004 was 92.50%, a 2.8% decline from 1993.
India poverty rate for 1993 was 95.30%, a 0.2% decline from 1987.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/I ... verty-rate

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/th ... -the-world
Scroll down to the list...and let's be serious..
So on those numbers and a population of 1.339 billion, there are "only" about 176 million Indians who are not poor. It doesn't take a very large percentage of those to decide to take their next overseas holiday or business venture to be in Adelaide instead of somewhere else to make it worth someone putting a plane on a few times a week. If that is not a big enough potential market, then no international airline would bother flying to Australia at all!
Yes, when you're talking about country so large even small percentages are massive in absolute terms. It's worth noting too that the number of middle class Indians number 27-60 million (depending whether you look at income or wealth), which is more than Australia's total population. India should be on the agenda, even if it's not the plum prize.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2546 Post by Ho Really » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:28 pm

SRW wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:30 am
SBD wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 am
rev wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:42 am

They could have 10 billion people, it would still be the lesser option.

[...]

It would be more beneficial to South Australia in terms of tourism to establish better connections, or direct flights, or more where they already exist, with North American, China, Europe and the wealthy Asian countries, as a priority before places like India. You want to boost tourism? Why the heck would you look to one of the poorest countries on the planet instead of some of the wealthiest who also have the highest spending tourists?

[...]
So on those numbers and a population of 1.339 billion, there are "only" about 176 million Indians who are not poor. It doesn't take a very large percentage of those to decide to take their next overseas holiday or business venture to be in Adelaide instead of somewhere else to make it worth someone putting a plane on a few times a week. If that is not a big enough potential market, then no international airline would bother flying to Australia at all!
Yes, when you're talking about country so large even small percentages are massive in absolute terms. It's worth noting too that the number of middle class Indians number 27-60 million (depending whether you look at income or wealth), which is more than Australia's total population. India should be on the agenda, even if it's not the plum prize.
Sure, our priority is where the money is that's why AAL are looking at the USA first and possibly more connections with China and East Asia. India will come down the track. Like I said earlier you only need a million wealthy Indian tourists to visit over several years. The numbers are rising and Indians with money are now travelling more than before. Important we give them something to visit just like we've done with the Chinese. Heck if we've put up signs written in Mandarin we could do the same in Hindi, although wealthy Indians do speak english as it is the lingua franca in India. So there's lesser of a need for this, but just the same let's make them more comfortable and they'll come. That includes direct flights if possible.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2547 Post by Ho Really » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:33 pm

Here's an article in the Sydney Morning Herald...
Tourism minister calls on airlines to start direct flights to India
By Andrew Taylor
September 22, 2019 — 12.00am

A lack of direct flights between India and Australia threatens to curb growth in one of Australia’s largest tourism markets, federal Tourism Minister Simon Birmingham said.

Mr Birmingham will today tell the World Routes aviation conference in Adelaide that 1 million Indian tourists are expected to visit Australia each year by 2030.

China is Australia's top tourism market, but India is the fastest-growing, with tourist numbers increasing by 15 per cent in the past year to 342,694 people.

“However, India’s growth in arrivals has not been matched with direct aviation services from India,” Mr Birmingham will tell the forum. “Currently, Air India is the only direct flight provider, with eight flights to New Delhi per week.”

Mr Birmingham will call on airlines and airports to increase the number of direct flights between Australia and India to meet growing demand from the Indian tourism market.

Ninety per cent of Indian visitors fly to Australia via South-East Asia on carriers such as Singapore Airlines and Thai Airways.

Mr Birmingham said this added time and cost to travel, and was a disincentive for potential visitors.

“More direct flights would enable Indian travellers, in both business and leisure markets, to access Australia with greater ease and makes us more competitive when potential travellers are considering where they might travel to,” he told The Sun-Herald.

Air India’s direct flight from Sydney to Delhi takes about 12-and-a-half hours, while Qantas’ service via Hong Kong takes more than 18 hours.

A Qantas Group spokesman said the airline continually reviews its network “but we do not currently have plans to operate direct services to India”.

Peter Harbison, chairman emeritus of CAPA - Centre for Aviation, said it was too costly for airlines to operate direct flights between India and Australia.

"It’s potentially a very lucrative market but low-yielding because there’s not a lot of business traffic,” he said. “And operationally it’s difficult to serve on an economic basis because of aircraft and crewing needs to service a number of points.”

Mr Birmingham said an increase of about 60,000 seats each year over the next decade was needed to meet the projected increase in tourists from India by 2030.

“That is the equivalent to around an extra 250 direct flights per year, or five extra flights per week being added each and every year,” he said.

India is Australia’s eighth largest market for tourists, according to Austrade, behind China (1.32 million), New Zealand (1.26 million) and the United States (750,000).

But Indian visitor numbers are expected to have the highest growth among Australia's top 10 markets because of the country's positive economic outlook, increases in middle-income earners and strong family ties to Australia.

Austrade's International Visitor Survey also found Indian visitors spent more time in Australia than tourists from other countries, with many Indian tourists visiting friends and relatives.

Indian visitors to Victoria increased by 9.9 per cent to 170,800 in the 12 months to March 2019, while NSW attracted 163,000 Indian tourists - a rise of 4.1 per cent.
See the charts at Austrade mentioned in the article.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2548 Post by Maximus » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:56 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm
Apparently they're now looking at direct flights to India.
Couldnt get the direct US flights, so going for a lesser option. Way to go Adelaide lol.
ghs wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 pm
We really must be struggling to attract international airlines if we're starting to think about Delhi being our next destination.

The state government is a joke.
Just to clarify... airlines are (generally speaking) private businesses, as is Adelaide Airport Ltd. The airport works with the state government to attract international airlines, but ultimately it's the airport's own business who it wants, allows and can entice to use the airport infrastructure.

And it's not as if route negotiations happen one at a time. These discussions are ongoing with many airlines/governments and it can take years of negotiation and relationship-building before a new route starts up. Other much bigger airports clearly have almost the opposite problem of being too congested because of the business and economic imperatives for airlines to fly there.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2549 Post by ghs » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:13 pm

Has cathay pacific recently changed their flights so they're departing from adelaide in the afternoons ?

They used to leave in the morning.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2550 Post by Ho Really » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:39 pm

ghs wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:13 pm
Has cathay pacific recently changed their flights so they're departing from adelaide in the afternoons ?

They used to leave in the morning.
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