[COM] Oaklands Crossing | $174m

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#301 Post by Somebody » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:20 pm

That German one looks bloody fantastic, compared to this, which is even in Australia.. (and sees 5 trains per day, each way)
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Back to Oaklands, there is only a 1-hour (60min) frequency there at night. I'd hate to rock up on a freezing night and see the next train is 50 minutes off!
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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#302 Post by Norman » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:05 pm

That's why timetables exist. And the night frequency will be upgraded with electrification.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#303 Post by Somebody » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:26 pm

Norman wrote:That's why timetables exist.
And what kind of choice passenger (people who CHOOSE to use PT) will want to use a major service in an urban area that is so infrequent that if you don't check a timetable before you could get to your destination and back in the gap between services?
Norman wrote:And the night frequency will be upgraded with electrification.
Yeah, TransAdelaide is most short of railcars at 7pm-12am each evening and on weekends compared to any other time of day or week, can't run any extras.
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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#304 Post by muzzamo » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:35 pm

Somebody wrote:Yeah, TransAdelaide is most short of railcars at 7pm-12am each evening and on weekends compared to any other time of day or week, can't run any extras.
I would imagine its a chicken and egg type issue. Electrification would almost certainly see enough nighttime demand to warrant increased frequency.

Bit like the trams - I think its a fairly safe bet that we will see the frequency upgraded (5 minute go-zone??) in the next 12 months or so.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#305 Post by Somebody » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:18 pm

The fact that trains use electric instead of diesel traction isn't suddenly going to make people want to use them at night.

If more services run, more people will catch them, as people who currently avoid them for the abysmal frequency will consider using trains. Of course they'll say "there's no demand to run extra services", as people refuse to use the present services due to the poorness of them!
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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#306 Post by Norman » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:55 pm

The trains have been running hourly at night as far as I can remember, so it's good that they are actually doing something. Demand isn't high, especially since they are all-stoppers and the trains are so slow and lack sufficient accelleration.

In fact, up until 2002 or somewhere around that, trains operated hourly on all lines, including Noarlunga and Gawler. Those lines now have double the frequency. Whether this increased passengers on weekends I am not sure of.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#307 Post by Omicron » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:00 am

James Renfrey wrote:What about addressing the issue? Who the hell cares about 'last users'? I've several times been just that as well as a 'first user', but that is a private satisfaction and of no interest whatsoever to anyone else. Too many posts to this and other similar discussion groups are completely irrelevant, and they seriously compromise any good effect that they have in influencing politicians and others to take action to improve our city and lifestyle.

If we are seen as a mob of puff-puff nuts and bears of very little brain the value of Sensational Adelaide as a forum of intelligent discussion will be nil.

I have used the old Oakland station numberless times at all times of the day and night for more than twenty years. I hated it. It was old and rundown. It was inconveniently sited. Nevertheless there was substantial protection against wind and rain for waiting passengers and, once upon a time, permanently open toilet facilities.

The new station is attractive and much more convenient to use for the great majority of patrons. IT HAS NO WIND PROTECTION AT ALL.

THAT is the issue. Please comment upon it, or find somewhere else to talk about your grandma's bunions.
I would imagine that absolute visibility from the road and to all corners of the station outweighed the extent of modifications required for noticeable wind protection. The old Oaklands station protected one from the wind so nicely because there were all sorts of nooks and crannies to hide in, and various divisions, panels and walls to cower behind. Of course, the presence of all that also encouraged the station's use as a toilet facility or rubbish dump, and did nothing to help its sightlines from various positions on the platform or the nearby roads. The lighting just couldn't properly cover the whole area; the seats couldn't all be seen from the road; people waiting couldn't see around all the corners of the buildings, and so on.

This new station is a complete shift in ideology - safety and visibility rather than shelter and refuge. It's unfortunate that it has to be taken to the extreme, but i'd much rather be at Oaklands with the station open on all sides and much better lighting than with partitions here and there with God knows what behind them. A little bus shelter with a low roof that is enclosed on three sides does an excellent job of protecting people from most winds and rain, but the same principles applied to an entire railway station leave us with nothing more than a reconstruction of Oaklands in its original dry but dubious glory.

In any case, I for one have been most looking forward to becoming a puff-puff nut (or bear). I hear they have quite marvellous insights into useful herbal remedies for my grandmother's bunions. :wink:

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#308 Post by James Renfrey » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:32 pm

I would imagine that absolute visibility from the road and to all corners of the station outweighed the extent of modifications required for noticeable wind protection.....This new station is a complete shift in ideology - safety and visibility rather than shelter and refuge.
I know that visibility is important in these days of roaming ferals, but there are such transparent sheets as reinforced glass and polycarbonate. These can do a pretty good job of shielding waiting passengers from the wind chill factor which makes the apparent temperature much colder and more uncomfortable. It is not necessary to enclose the whole station - just a three sided open fronted carrel seating twenty or so passengers near the station office. On the down platform a similar but smaller enclosure directly opposite that on the up platform.

Why do people stick to their airconditioned cars despite the expense? If we want people to use the public transport system when they have a choice of much more convenient and comfortable means of transport (often arriving home in less than the waiting period on a windy platform) we must make the experience as pleasant as possible.

Yes, the ferals will smash and graffiti glass panels, but that simply means that we must make them afraid to do so. A spell in the stocks and/or a Singapore type caning can (as it has there) lower such antisocial behaviour to almost nil. One day we will put police back on the beat and give them the teeth that they need to make a difference. It worked in my youth and during the bodgie/widgie days since then. There is video surveillance on the station and the Sturt police are not far away.

Hi Norman! I'm the old codger that you met on the platform a few weeks ago. A tram and train nut from 1933 onwards. A computer literate person who has the timetables at his fingertips and, in the important cases, in his memory. Unfortunately when I am out at night at my voluntary job in my very late 70s, I can't dictate the closing time of my place of unpaid work. Hence, willy-nilly a lengthy wait in the cold on Goodwood station. Of course I should act my age, leave volunteering to the young people who won't do it, and stay at home with my hot water bottle.

Cheers!

James.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#309 Post by Norman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:44 pm

From The Messenger: (http://guardian-messenger.whereilive.co ... a-debacle/)
Rail hub is a ‘debacle’

DISGRUNTLED rail commuters are demanding the State Government fix chaotic conditions at the new $6.8 million Oaklands Transport Interchange.

Opposition transport spokesman Duncan McFetridge (Lib) and Mitchell MP Kris Hanna (Ind) told the Guardian Messenger last week they had been contacted by more than 30 people complaining about traffic delays, failing boom gates and incorrect sequencing of the boom gates and traffic lights.

Other concerns included: the platform shelters providing poor protection from the weather; the height of the train platform being about 10cm higher than the train; and the failure of the digital information boards to show train schedules.

Dr McFetridge has written to Transport Minister Patrick Conlon asking him to reconsider the interchange’s future and prepare a plan for grade separation, which would allow the train to travel over the busy Morphett/Diagonal roads intersection.

``We’ve been getting the same sorts of complaints mostly from elderly people who use public transport in the area quite a bit,’’ Mr Hanna said.

``I am calling once again for the State Government to reinvestigate this whole precinct which includes Diagonal, Morphett and Dunrobin roads and the train crossing,’’ Dr McFetridge said.

``It is an absolute debacle. The Government’s window dressing of the problem by building the new train platforms fails to conceal the underlying shambles of the whole crossing.’’

Local action group BOXers (Better Oaklands Crossing) spokeswoman Jacqueline Cookes hoped a grade separation would be considered.

``We’ve been told by the State Government that what’s been done does not preclude grade separation but there is no money allocated in the budget for this to happen,’’ she said.

Warradale resident Carmel Dowd said she avoided the interchange and rail crossing at all cost.

``If I were to drive to the interchange and leave my car there it would be a drama just to get in there and to get across the road,’’ she said.

``I wouldn’t even consider it an interchange, it’s just a train station with a run-off for a couple of buses.’’

Mr Conlon’s spokesman Matt Clemow said $12.6 million had been allocated in the 2008/09 State Budget to address traffic congestion in the area. He said he was unaware of ``anything out of the ordinary’’ happening with the boom gates and traffic signalling.

``We have isolated electricity problems from time to time,’’ he said.

``But the signalling is due to be finalised soon.’’

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#310 Post by AtD » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:01 pm

Community papers complain about everything. It's the same nation wide.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#311 Post by bdm » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:53 am

There is a real problem here. I got off a city bound train to cross the tracks to catch a bus to Flinders, but both the pedestrian and traffic gates stayed down for (not kidding) around five minutes. No trains were coming. The 'emergency exit' gates can simply be pushed open so that's what I did! The ped gates are an absolutely and utterly stupid waste of money and time.

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[COM] Re: #COM: Oaklands Park Interchange

#312 Post by AG » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:02 pm

I do have to agree here that future plans should have been factored into the design of the Oaklands Interchange, including grade separating the crossing and improving road traffic flow through the area.

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#313 Post by Somebody » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:26 pm

bdm wrote:The ped gates are an absolutely and utterly stupid waste of money and time.
And when some 13-year old gets hit by a train after school because he ran through the open gates, guess who will probably be complaining about the unsafe pedestrian crossing?
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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#314 Post by Omicron » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:10 pm

Somebody wrote:
bdm wrote:The ped gates are an absolutely and utterly stupid waste of money and time.
And when some 13-year old gets hit by a train after school because he ran through the open gates, guess who will probably be complaining about the unsafe pedestrian crossing?
Not me!

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[COM] Re: Oaklands Park Interchange

#315 Post by bdm » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:18 pm

Omicron wrote:
Somebody wrote:
bdm wrote:The ped gates are an absolutely and utterly stupid waste of money and time.
And when some 13-year old gets hit by a train after school because he ran through the open gates, guess who will probably be complaining about the unsafe pedestrian crossing?
Not me!
The government seems to spend a lot of money in the vain hope of both preventing and curing stupid, but unfortunately the cash hasn't seemed to make much of an effect.

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