News & Discussion: Road Rules

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Post Reply
Message
Author
ac83
Gold-Member ;)
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:39 pm
Location: Adelaide
Has thanked: 1 time

Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#1 Post by ac83 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:59 pm

Hi all,

This discussion is to be based on everyday common sense and logic on our roads. Mods I know this isn't development based however it does have a lot to do with planning for future roads etc.

Recently I came back from some time spent in UK and Europe and I did a lot of driving in England, Wales, France, Italy, Germany and Netherlands as well as driving through Belgium and Austria. I drove on a variety of roads including Autobahns, Autrostradas, Motorways, windy tourist roads, through large cities.

Whilst it is hard to compare Adelaide's roads to some of the monster 3 lane and 4 lane freeways in Europe one thing we can learn from is road etiquette as well as a few little pointers that road engineers should implement here.

1. In UK (and most of Europe for that matter) it is illegal to undertake (overtaking on the left lane for non understanders or right lane in LHD countries).
2. Merging lanes on to highways and freeways are very long allowing even the softest of drivers to accelerate up to a safe merging speed (compared to Brenton Rd merging on to Main North Rd west of Gawler)
3. Merging lanes don't have the dashed line. The dashed lines on merging lanes seem to give the drivers in the right hand merging lane the impression that they have right of way neglecting the Zip merge rule. Classic example is Main North Rd heading South at the intersection of The Grove Way and Saints Rd (Yes i've travelled Main North Rd a lot!)
4. On 2 way roads (such as Victor Harbor Rd) motorists are a lot more courteous. They keep left in overtaking zones and pull right over. None of this travelling at 80KPH only to speed up to 110KPH in an overtaking zone making it very difficult to overtake then slowing back down to 80KPH again.

What can we learn from this in Adelaide with a lack of 3 lane freeways etc? Well obviously common sense which 90% (at least) seem to lack.

Rules that should be enforced more that will ease problems and create safer roads such as:

1. Keeping left at all times (You see the signs, it is a law but no one seems to care about it.)
2. No undertaking. This severe lane swapping has got to stop especially on 3 lane roads such as Port Rd, Anzac Hwy. How many times have you gone from the left into the middle as in innocent motorists only to find some bogan has rapidly gone from the far right to the middle. Lightning quick lane changes should also be looked up as well. Isn't the rule for this indicating for at least seconds before moving away from the side of the road or lane changing?
3. The ZIP merge is a rule. However no one seems to follow this. Happened to me quite often where I've been almost a car lengh in front and the other driver has not given way either forcing me to slow right down (due to small merge lanes) or speed up breaking the speed limit
4. Want to do 80KPH in a 100 zone? Fine by me. Everyone has a right to go slow. HOWEVER keep left at overtaking lanes and maintain or lower your speed to enable the long queue behind you to get past. This a classic on Main South Rd (past Hackam) and Victor Harbor Rd. All this does is frustrate the long list of cars behind you.
5. Road engineers to have a good look at merging lanes. To me a succesful merging lane has no middle dotted lines, the lane line simply dissapears however keeping 2 lane widths for a distance before slowly tapering into 1 lane. This works really well and drivers seem to works things out and is efforl btless.
6. Coming up to a freeway from a side road then you should make an effort to get up to speed as quickly as possible. Entering a freeway listed at 100KPH doing 60KPH is extremely dangerous.

These points are mostly based on common sense. I'm opening this discussion to here other people's thoughts on it. Is there somehow these rules can be put to better use? I believe policing the above 6 rules (as opposed to targeting 65kph in a 60 zone) may help to ease the roads a bit may make journeys a bit more relaxing.

Regards,
Azz

drwaddles
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: EAS Bay 1

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#2 Post by drwaddles » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:30 pm

ac83 wrote:3. Merging lanes don't have the dashed line. The dashed lines on merging lanes seem to give the drivers in the right hand merging lane the impression that they have right of way neglecting the Zip merge rule. Classic example is Main North Rd heading South at the intersection of The Grove Way and Saints Rd (Yes i've travelled Main North Rd a lot!)
The zip merge rule only applies where there is no continuity line at the merge. Where there is a dashed line, indicating that one of the lanes ends, then the person moving out of that lane must give way to whoever is in the lane they are trying to move into. So the driver you cited below does have right of way in this situation.
ac83 wrote:1. Keeping left at all times (You see the signs, it is a law but no one seems to care about it.)
This only applies where the speed limit is greater than 80km/h or if otherwise signed. Does not apply on your average urban road.
ac83 wrote:2. No undertaking. This severe lane swapping has got to stop especially on 3 lane roads such as Port Rd, Anzac Hwy. How many times have you gone from the left into the middle as in innocent motorists only to find some bogan has rapidly gone from the far right to the middle. Lightning quick lane changes should also be looked up as well. Isn't the rule for this indicating for at least seconds before moving away from the side of the road or lane changing?
Again, this would only be practical on high speed roads. On your Port Road or Anzac Highway example its perfectly fine for someone in the middle lane to move past someone in the right. Otherwise you will end up with everyone on the carriageway having their speed dictated by the speed of the driver in the right lane. Not good for traffic flow, especially if it is someone who is looking for their right turn.

The issue of drivers making quick or poor lane changes has nothing to do with the 'undertaking', it happens everywhere.

Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment that punishing poor driver behaviour is far more important than token low range speeding enforcement.

Waewick
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3378
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#3 Post by Waewick » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:38 pm

if anyone has ever driven outside of Adelaide you will have experienced the following....

Leaving Adelaide - pre expressway (Northern) you would get stuck behing people who would do 50 in a 60 zone, 80 in a 70 zone and then 90 in 100 zone

the worst however.....

driving down the highway come up behind a car doing 90-100 in the 110 zone (no problem here) with an overtaking lane coming up I generally just hang back.......

then you get to the over taking lane....all of a sudden your doing 110 and losing ground against the person you wanted to overtake, but then the overtaking lane ends, and we are back to 90 :wallbash:

that happens to me on a average 1-2 times a trip to the Riverland without fail.

The other thing that is really dangerous is easter time when all the city folk head bush and drive bumper to bumper at 90kms leaving no space for people to overtake so you end up with blokes doing 150+ trying to overtaken between 5-15 cars/caravans at once.

User avatar
drsmith
Legendary Member!
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:35 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#4 Post by drsmith » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:51 pm

capitalist wrote:then you get to the over taking lane....all of a sudden your doing 110 and losing ground against the person you wanted to overtake, but then the overtaking lane ends, and we are back to 90 :wallbash:

that happens to me on a average 1-2 times a trip to the Riverland without fail.
In a lot of cases, I wonder whether this is a sub-conscious reaction to a wider (more open) carriageway.

Waewick
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3378
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#5 Post by Waewick » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:28 pm

you could be right in some cases, i didn't think of it like that

but in others, it is just pure ego - i have been in instances where the differences are no what you would consider sub conscious or within in the bounds of legal driving

User avatar
AtD
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:00 pm
Location: Sydney
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#6 Post by AtD » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:20 am

You get it in the eastern states too. I think drsmith is right, people speed up because the road is wider.

The only bad driving habit that I think is an "only in Adelaide" thing is people being crazily defensive of their lanes. Generally in the east in heavy traffic if you indicate to change lanes, the car next to you will back off and let you in and we all get on with it. In Adelaide the car next to you usually speeds up and blocks you, so you have to slow down to get behind him, and then you're blocked again, so before you know it you're doing 20 and everyone behind you is getting pissed off.

drwaddles
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: EAS Bay 1

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#7 Post by drwaddles » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:54 pm

I have found myself doing the "speed up at an overtaking lane" in some instances where the road prior to the overtaking lane is winding/hilly/whatever so I can't do the arbitrary limit safely. Generally when an overtaking lane comes, the road alignment improves somewhat so of course I speed up to a safe speed for that section of road. So that would be a factor in some circumstances.

User avatar
AtD
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:00 pm
Location: Sydney
Been thanked: 1 time

Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#8 Post by AtD » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:57 pm

Of course in those cases it's polite to let people pass you, but it's also safer. Otherwise they might get impatient and attempt to overtake you dangerously. If they hit something there's a fair chance they will take you with them.

So yes they might be a wanker but it's better than the alternative...

drwaddles
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: EAS Bay 1

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#9 Post by drwaddles » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:40 pm

Yep, I agree it is polite to let them past and I usually do. The exception being if the dickhead behind has been tailgating etc then I have no interest in being courteous or polite.

Waewick
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3378
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#10 Post by Waewick » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:01 pm

drwaddles wrote:I have found myself doing the "speed up at an overtaking lane" in some instances where the road prior to the overtaking lane is winding/hilly/whatever so I can't do the arbitrary limit safely. Generally when an overtaking lane comes, the road alignment improves somewhat so of course I speed up to a safe speed for that section of road. So that would be a factor in some circumstances.
true

but if you not as comfortable with the terrain, surely you should let those behind you who wish to go faster past?

User avatar
Maximus
Legendary Member!
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:05 pm
Location: The Bush Capital (Canberra)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#11 Post by Maximus » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:03 pm

drwaddles wrote:
ac83 wrote:3. Merging lanes don't have the dashed line. The dashed lines on merging lanes seem to give the drivers in the right hand merging lane the impression that they have right of way neglecting the Zip merge rule. Classic example is Main North Rd heading South at the intersection of The Grove Way and Saints Rd (Yes i've travelled Main North Rd a lot!)
The zip merge rule only applies where there is no continuity line at the merge. Where there is a dashed line, indicating that one of the lanes ends, then the person moving out of that lane must give way to whoever is in the lane they are trying to move into. So the driver you cited below does have right of way in this situation.
+1

The zip-merge rule only applies to the type of merge that is generally signposted as "form one lane". Definitely agree with the OP's sentiments, though. Most people don't seem to know what the zip-merge rule is, and most drivers just assume that the person on the right has right-of-way, regardless of the situation.
It's = it is; its = everything else.
You're = you are; your = belongs to.
Than = comparative ("bigger than"); then = next.

User avatar
duke
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:15 pm
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#12 Post by duke » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:58 pm

If one more person rides my ass while I'm doing the speed limit,...!!

Two driving stories..

I was driving from my old work down Port Wakefield road. This car sat right behind me the whole way. There were no cars in the right hand lane. She could have gone around.
I even changed lanes into the right lane. She eventually followed.
I floored it off on the lights. No matter what I did she followed me all the way until we got to North Adelaide then turned off.
She was sitting so close that I could not see her headlights.


I get the same thing every single time I drive down Kings Road in Salisbury, someone sitting on my ass. I drive the speed limit. I take off fast from lights. Its not like I am holding up traffic. They could even go around but no, they sit right behind me.

Second one unrelated.

This car was going about 50k in an 80k zone holding up traffic. The car in front of me, behind the slow car, was getting annoyed. Finally they floored it out around the slow car.
I pulled out just after and went back into the left hand lane once I got in front of the car that was going slow.
Then suddenly the car that sped off slowed down so it was next to me in the right hand lane.
The passenger flung open his door nearly hitting my car. He then stood on the foot thing outside the car hurling abuse at me. Remember we are going 80km/hr now.
I am like wtf. I slow down to get away from them. They slow down. I speed up, they speed up.
They tried hitting me with their car. They then tried throwing beer cans at my car.
The only thing I can think of is that they thought that I was the car going slow doing 50k in an 80k zone. But we had switched positions.
I should also mention that there were two kids in the back seat laughing at the whole thing. They thought it was hilarious.


Drivers in this state are just absolute idiots. No one has respect for the law or other people.
Everyone is impatient and think they are the best driver in the world.

We could make our road system the best in the world, but it won't get rid of these idiots.

sacred_june
Sen-Rookie-Sational
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:23 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#13 Post by sacred_june » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:47 pm

AtD wrote:The only bad driving habit that I think is an "only in Adelaide" thing is people being crazily defensive of their lanes. Generally in the east in heavy traffic if you indicate to change lanes, the car next to you will back off and let you in and we all get on with it. In Adelaide the car next to you usually speeds up and blocks you, so you have to slow down to get behind him, and then you're blocked again, so before you know it you're doing 20 and everyone behind you is getting pissed off.
+1

I KNOW THAT FEELING!!!

A small story:

When i lived in Adelaide, i always heard about how bad the water was. My girlfriend (from Melbourne) constantly commented on how terrible it tasted. I said "I love it!" and thought she was crazy. Then i moved to Melbourne. I didn't notice ANY difference whatsoever in the quality of the water. A few months later though, when i went home for a holiday, the water tasted like it was mixed with detergent.

This is how i also feel about driving in adelaide.

Didn't realise it was as bad as it is, because it was all i ever knew!

User avatar
rev
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 170 times
Been thanked: 291 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#14 Post by rev » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:04 pm

Common sense on Adelaide roads? Are you kidding me? Hell could freeze over and common sense on Adelaide's roads would still be absent.

One thing that really irks me lately at road works sites is the absolute wankers who can see the signs indicating that the lane ahead is closed, but still drive all the way up that lane, expecting people to let them in further up.
I got into an argument with this idiot yesterday at the road works going on at the Regency/South Road intersection because I didn't let him cut in, nearly got out the car to belt him.

Then there are the idiots who drive in the right hand lane doing 50(60zone). Completely oblivious to anyone else.

Or the idiots who take the risk and pull out of a side street in front of you when they could go into the other lane, or just wait a whopping 5 more seconds because there are no cars behind you.

Another wonderful example of moronic drivers is the type who leave a massive gap between their car and the car in front at lights, blocking cars from behind who want to turn left, and refuse to move up a little. Again, completely oblivious to anyone around them.

Don't even get me started on the amount of dumb asses who don't know how to merge.

Stupidity and ignorance seem to be the common themes on Adelaide's roads.

User avatar
rhino
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2850
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:37 pm
Location: Nairne
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Common sense on the roads of Adelaide

#15 Post by rhino » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:36 pm

Have you noticed that a significant number of people who are completely oblivious to anyone around them are diving Volos? Strange but true.
cheers,
Rhino

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests