News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[claybro]

Regardless of the Global Link outcome, Cross Road still needs to be grade separated to motorway standards connecting the Toll Gate intersection of SE Freeway to the new North South Motorway earmarked from Anzac Hwy to Darlington, connecting at the existing South Rd/Cross Rd intersection area of Glandore/Black Forest/Edwardstown.

The Unley Park aristocracy who are effectively part owners of the State Liberal Party, better not prevent this from happening, the link should be considered as part of the North South corridor as whole, for the purposes of planning and funding.

I also doubt a freight only airport out the back of beyond will pass the pub test, as just one of many examples freight forwarders use cargo space in SQ & CX flights from Adelaide for fresh food containers, but not in the volumes to justify dedicated freight flights. Plus as others have pointed out Adelaide Airport expansion stages have been planned on future business activity, a freight airport elsewhere is likely to dilute that effort.

Why? Considering the plan for this is to get freight away from suburban Adelaide and the north-south corridor is being funding primarily for freight movement, you're going to need a better argument than "we should do it because we should do it". You're talking a lot of $$$ in property acquisition just for a pipe-dream.

Why? because all freight will not be removed from suburban Adelaide by this proposal. It is not envisaged to relocate all manufacturing from the Western Suburbs, or the southern suburbs to Monarto. The new freight route will not reduce the need for intra suburban freight, or local deliveries. And far from a pipe dream, Cross road is currently the only proposal that has been seriously considered as a way of getting trucks from the Toll Gate, to the N/S motorway. In fact, if the Monarto Airport and logistics region gets up, it will INCREASE the need for Cross Road to be upgraded to allow for export freight to be transported from the likes of Lonsdale, Edwardstown, Thebarton etc to access the new export park.

[Waewick]

Regardless of the Global Link outcome, Cross Road still needs to be grade separated to motorway standards connecting the Toll Gate intersection of SE Freeway to the new North South Motorway earmarked from Anzac Hwy to Darlington, connecting at the existing South Rd/Cross Rd intersection area of Glandore/Black Forest/Edwardstown.

The Unley Park aristocracy who are effectively part owners of the State Liberal Party, better not prevent this from happening, the link should be considered as part of the North South corridor as whole, for the purposes of planning and funding.

I also doubt a freight only airport out the back of beyond will pass the pub test, as just one of many examples freight forwarders use cargo space in SQ & CX flights from Adelaide for fresh food containers, but not in the volumes to justify dedicated freight flights. Plus as others have pointed out Adelaide Airport expansion stages have been planned on future business activity, a freight airport elsewhere is likely to dilute that effort.

Why? Considering the plan for this is to get freight away from suburban Adelaide and the north-south corridor is being funding primarily for freight movement, you're going to need a better argument than "we should do it because we should do it". You're talking a lot of $$$ in property acquisition just for a pipe-dream.

Why? because all freight will not be removed from suburban Adelaide by this proposal. It is not envisaged to relocate all manufacturing from the Western Suburbs, or the southern suburbs to Monarto. The new freight route will not reduce the need for intra suburban freight, or local deliveries. And far from a pipe dream, Cross road is currently the only proposal that has been seriously considered as a way of getting trucks from the Toll Gate, to the N/S motorway. In fact, if the Monarto Airport and logistics region gets up, it will INCREASE the need for Cross Road to be upgraded to allow for export freight to be transported from the likes of Lonsdale, Edwardstown, Thebarton etc to access the new export park.

I think you'll find firms would relocate rather than expand.

If indeed any of those areas would even be effected by the plan.

[Bob]

Regardless of the Global Link outcome, Cross Road still needs to be grade separated to motorway standards connecting the Toll Gate intersection of SE Freeway to the new North South Motorway earmarked from Anzac Hwy to Darlington, connecting at the existing South Rd/Cross Rd intersection area of Glandore/Black Forest/Edwardstown.

The Unley Park aristocracy who are effectively part owners of the State Liberal Party, better not prevent this from happening, the link should be considered as part of the North South corridor as whole, for the purposes of planning and funding.

I also doubt a freight only airport out the back of beyond will pass the pub test, as just one of many examples freight forwarders use cargo space in SQ & CX flights from Adelaide for fresh food containers, but not in the volumes to justify dedicated freight flights. Plus as others have pointed out Adelaide Airport expansion stages have been planned on future business activity, a freight airport elsewhere is likely to dilute that effort.

Why? Considering the plan for this is to get freight away from suburban Adelaide and the north-south corridor is being funding primarily for freight movement, you're going to need a better argument than "we should do it because we should do it". You're talking a lot of $$$ in property acquisition just for a pipe-dream.

Why? because all freight will not be removed from suburban Adelaide by this proposal. It is not envisaged to relocate all manufacturing from the Western Suburbs, or the southern suburbs to Monarto. The new freight route will not reduce the need for intra suburban freight, or local deliveries. And far from a pipe dream, Cross road is currently the only proposal that has been seriously considered as a way of getting trucks from the Toll Gate, to the N/S motorway. In fact, if the Monarto Airport and logistics region gets up, it will INCREASE the need for Cross Road to be upgraded to allow for export freight to be transported from the likes of Lonsdale, Edwardstown, Thebarton etc to access the new export park.

In addition to Claybro’s post, the majority of freight originating or terminating on the Ade-Mel route travels by road, if the road bypass was built around the hills and the State Govt were to ban B Doubles on Portrush Rd, Cross Rd and SE Freeway, this would result in extra cost and time for companies unnecessarily being forced the long way around via Truro. The fastest and less expensive road route would be via Cross Rd if it were up to motorway standards. Besides let’s see what the cost is of building a road bypass around the hills versus upgrading Cross Rd to motorway standards including resumptions. Then let’s see how the State Govt will justify the large gap for what perceived benefits their road bypass pan would have.

As for the rail bypass I hope that does get up because most rail freight via Adelaide does not originate or terminate here, these days Adelaide is just on the Mel-Per main line. Removing height restrictions in the Adelaide Hills and in Victoria would allow double stacking all the way through and improve rail freight economics. The through rail freight would no longer need to go via Adelaide – but Adelaide still would have the advantage of being connected to the national rail network via Two Wells and hopefully a new line bypassing Salisbury. Container rail freight as a percentage of all container freight per route is the highest in the country for Mel-Per now, any improvement would benefit everyone including getting more road freight Mel-Per onto rails if the economics and travel times were improved further.

Also have to remember it is about being connected to Melbourne more so than Adelaide. You order a sofa in Adelaide, it is made in China, shipped in container by sea to Melbourne and freighted to Adelaide. It does not come through Port Adelaide but the Port of Melbourne to warehouses in western Adelaide. Wine from Barossa is exported via the Port of Melbourne, not Port Adelaide or Adelaide Airport. There are many examples. These will not go through a freight only airport at Monarto. I wait with anticipation what the State Govt thinks is going to go through a freight only airport at Monarto. Only full containers on full freight flights justify freight only flights. The reason you’re sofa goes via Melbourne is the order volume for Adelaide needs to be added to the bigger order from Melbourne to justify shipping bulk costs via sea.

Apparently the SA Freight Council are not keen on the road bypass or airport plan either, but we cant comment for them, I guess they will be given an opportunity to have input to the plan at some point.

[Goodsy]

The freight council isn't keen because we'd lose any incentive for freight trains to stop in Adelaide and pick up/drop off cars on the way through. The India Pacific would probably miss Adelaide as well if there was a rail bypass.


How about a Southern bypass road?

[Bob]

The India Pacific would probably miss Adelaide as well if there was a rail bypass.

The Indian Pacific being the train from Sydney to Perth did not originally come into Adelaide when it was used as genuine passenger train and regular people used it.

People from Adelaide travelled on the SAR government operated East-West Express to Port Pirie to meet the then government operated Indian Pacific train for the onward journey towards Sydney or Perth, or indeed to connect there for The Transcontinental or The Ghan, as both then terminated in Port Pirie for decades, not Adelaide.

Today the Indian Pacific train, like The Ghan, is effectively a tourist train HQ’d in Adelaide and privately operated. It has diverted for the past two decades into Adelaide from Crystal Brook and back out to the same connection point allowing a stopover in Adelaide. That would not change if the rail bypass goes ahead as the Indian Pacific only travels north into and out of Adelaide via Two Wells/Malalla, it does not use the main eastern line to Melbourne, that is The Overland which terminates Adelaide & Melbourne and even that should not be affected by a rail bypass except the journey time may change, depending on the speed allowed on the proposed new line to make up for the added distance.

[SBD]

Regardless of the Global Link outcome, Cross Road still needs to be grade separated to motorway standards connecting the Toll Gate intersection of SE Freeway to the new North South Motorway earmarked from Anzac Hwy to Darlington, connecting at the existing South Rd/Cross Rd intersection area of Glandore/Black Forest/Edwardstown.

The Unley Park aristocracy who are effectively part owners of the State Liberal Party, better not prevent this from happening, the link should be considered as part of the North South corridor as whole, for the purposes of planning and funding.

I also doubt a freight only airport out the back of beyond will pass the pub test, as just one of many examples freight forwarders use cargo space in SQ & CX flights from Adelaide for fresh food containers, but not in the volumes to justify dedicated freight flights. Plus as others have pointed out Adelaide Airport expansion stages have been planned on future business activity, a freight airport elsewhere is likely to dilute that effort.

Why? Considering the plan for this is to get freight away from suburban Adelaide and the north-south corridor is being funding primarily for freight movement, you're going to need a better argument than "we should do it because we should do it". You're talking a lot of $$$ in property acquisition just for a pipe-dream.

Why? because all freight will not be removed from suburban Adelaide by this proposal. It is not envisaged to relocate all manufacturing from the Western Suburbs, or the southern suburbs to Monarto. The new freight route will not reduce the need for intra suburban freight, or local deliveries. And far from a pipe dream, Cross road is currently the only proposal that has been seriously considered as a way of getting trucks from the Toll Gate, to the N/S motorway. In fact, if the Monarto Airport and logistics region gets up, it will INCREASE the need for Cross Road to be upgraded to allow for export freight to be transported from the likes of Lonsdale, Edwardstown, Thebarton etc to access the new export park.

The current official route is Portrush/Hampstead/Grand Junction Roads.

I assume that in a few years time, the Unley/Mitcham residents and the Burside/Norwood residents will be bidding to privately fund each other's new freeway. Maybe one of the groups will have enough rich benefactors that the rest of the taxpayers will get our new road for free just to ensure that it is not near their homes

[1NEEDS2POST]

Rather than build a whole new airport, why don't they just use RAAF Base Edinburgh? The RAAF shares their base with airlines at other bases, such as Darwin and Newcastle. The RAAF has started operating P-8 Poseidons from Edinburgh, which is essentially an airliner.

It could be a 24/7 freight airport if they take off from runway 36 at night.

Most probably because eventually the area around there will be built up in future. Besides de-centralising is good for the state. We need to get towns like Murray Bridge and Tailem Bend to grow.

Cheers

RAAF Base Edinburgh is about 30 km from the city with farms to the north, so I don't think it will be built up for a long time.

Most cargo that goes by air arrives at the airport by truck. Edinburgh is in a great location since it's near the Northern Expressway and Port Wakefield Rd.

The best part of opening up Edinburgh to freight is that it will cost next to nothing compared to building a new airport.

Will the Adelaide Freight Terminal (currently at Regency Park) be moved to Monarto, or to somewhere north of Adelaide (Mallala? Two Wells?) where the bypass meets the northern railway?

I think the value of the real estate in Regency Park will make it very attractive to move the freight terminal somewhere else.

[SBD]

Rather than build a whole new airport, why don't they just use RAAF Base Edinburgh? The RAAF shares their base with airlines at other bases, such as Darwin and Newcastle. The RAAF has started operating P-8 Poseidons from Edinburgh, which is essentially an airliner.

It could be a 24/7 freight airport if they take off from runway 36 at night.

Most probably because eventually the area around there will be built up in future. Besides de-centralising is good for the state. We need to get towns like Murray Bridge and Tailem Bend to grow.

Cheers

RAAF Base Edinburgh is about 30 km from the city with farms to the north, so I don't think it will be built up for a long time.

Most cargo that goes by air arrives at the airport by truck. Edinburgh is in a great location since it's near the Northern Expressway and Port Wakefield Rd.

The best part of opening up Edinburgh to freight is that it will cost next to nothing compared to building a new airport.

Will the Adelaide Freight Terminal (currently at Regency Park) be moved to Monarto, or to somewhere north of Adelaide (Mallala? Two Wells?) where the bypass meets the northern railway?

I think the value of the real estate in Regency Park will make it very attractive to move the freight terminal somewhere else.

According to Wikipedia, the main runway at Edinburgh is 2560m. Newspaper reports say it is being extended by 275m by closing Penfield Road, which would make 2835m. The main runway at West Beach is 3100m. I expect that even though a P-8 is based on a B737, it may well be quite a bit lighter (due to less passengers) so not require as long a runway. The main runway at Toowoomba is 2870m, so perhaps the extended Edinburgh length is sufficient.

There is land on the south side of the railway line at Virginia and Waterloo Corner (including opposite the Penfield facility) and a bit at Direk next to the road freight warehouses. I imagine that area would be ideal for new/expanded intermodal Adelaide freight terminals. Even if the Northern Connector line is built, this area would only be a short spur line away from the new main line.

[Ho Really]

[...]

I also doubt a freight only airport out the back of beyond will pass the pub test, as just one of many examples freight forwarders use cargo space in SQ & CX flights from Adelaide for fresh food containers, but not in the volumes to justify dedicated freight flights. Plus as others have pointed out Adelaide Airport expansion stages have been planned on future business activity, a freight airport elsewhere is likely to dilute that effort.

The big advantage of the freight only airport will be it is always open. That will mean our produce will be in SE Asia and other parts of Asia at optimal arrival times. With the right connections north and south bypassing the highest points of the Mount Lofty Ranges and from the east this airport will be well located. Adelaide Airport can still concentrate on smaller boutique produce from our northern suburbs and Adelaide Hills and any other light industrial product manufactured close by. Both airports can work together. Adelaide and SA need something fresh and visionary to open up opportunities for our rural communities. This may be the start.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Most probably because eventually the area around there will be built up in future. Besides de-centralising is good for the state. We need to get towns like Murray Bridge and Tailem Bend to grow.

Cheers

RAAF Base Edinburgh is about 30 km from the city with farms to the north, so I don't think it will be built up for a long time.

Most cargo that goes by air arrives at the airport by truck. Edinburgh is in a great location since it's near the Northern Expressway and Port Wakefield Rd.

The best part of opening up Edinburgh to freight is that it will cost next to nothing compared to building a new airport.

Will the Adelaide Freight Terminal (currently at Regency Park) be moved to Monarto, or to somewhere north of Adelaide (Mallala? Two Wells?) where the bypass meets the northern railway?

I think the value of the real estate in Regency Park will make it very attractive to move the freight terminal somewhere else.

According to Wikipedia, the main runway at Edinburgh is 2560m. Newspaper reports say it is being extended by 275m by closing Penfield Road, which would make 2835m. The main runway at West Beach is 3100m. I expect that even though a P-8 is based on a B737, it may well be quite a bit lighter (due to less passengers) so not require as long a runway. The main runway at Toowoomba is 2870m, so perhaps the extended Edinburgh length is sufficient.

There is land on the south side of the railway line at Virginia and Waterloo Corner (including opposite the Penfield facility) and a bit at Direk next to the road freight warehouses. I imagine that area would be ideal for new/expanded intermodal Adelaide freight terminals. Even if the Northern Connector line is built, this area would only be a short spur line away from the new main line.

Will Edinburgh airbase be open 24 hours a day? That's one question. Second question, how much more runway do fully laden 747 cargos require?

Cheers

[Bob]

In regards to the freight airport part of the proposal, the people doing the study need to come out and outline even in the broadest terms at this time, exactly what freight types are earmarked to be shipped through a dedicated facility with dedicated freight planes, to get past first base. I am struggling to work out what types of freight and the volumes of freight they believe can justify this.

In regards to the RAAF base it is 24x7, however with increases in activities being setup by Defence this base is going to be the 2nd or 3rd most important in the country over the next few years, can’t see Defence allowing civilian freight activities as well.

[Waewick]

Maybe rather than potting the scheme lets see what the study says.

If it comes out full of holes then lets rubbish it.

All we seem to be doing now is being North Adelaide residents.

[claybro]

Maybe rather than potting the scheme lets see what the study says.

If it comes out full of holes then lets rubbish it.

All we seem to be doing now is being North Adelaide residents.

Agree, at least this is being looked at. In the short term, I believe a better road link between the SE freeway and northern areas would be beneficial. Longer term the rail link wii also be useful. The airport.... well let's see.

[ml69]

In regards to the freight airport part of the proposal, the people doing the study need to come out and outline even in the broadest terms at this time, exactly what freight types are earmarked to be shipped through a dedicated facility with dedicated freight planes, to get past first base. I am struggling to work out what types of freight and the volumes of freight they believe can justify this.

In regards to the RAAF base it is 24x7, however with increases in activities being setup by Defence this base is going to be the 2nd or 3rd most important in the country over the next few years, can’t see Defence allowing civilian freight activities as well.

There's been comparisons to Toowoomba's Wellcamp airport with the freight-only airport proposal.

Wellcamp is still primarily a passenger airport which services the Darling Downs region plus FIFO workers in the coal industry.

Wellcamp has one freight-only flight to Hong Kong PER WEEK. And this is from one of the largest agricultural regions in Australia.

Freight of perishable foods need regular flights, which is why combining it with a regularly-scheduled passenger flight works well. Hence I can't ever see the freight-only airport getting off the ground (excuse the pun).

[Bob]

BOLD multibillion-dollar infrastructure plans including a 24-hour export airport at Monarto should be ditched, South Australia’s Freight Council boss says.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 97d1f88eb1