News & Discussion: Regional Transport

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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ginzahikari
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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#556 Post by ginzahikari » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:26 pm

PeFe wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:23 pm
Murray Bridge and Bordertown do not deserve rail services, based on their population and therefore the number of people travelling to Adelaide.

Regional South Australia does not have the population to justify any regional rail. Maybe, just maybe in 2150 when Port Pirie, Port Augusta all have poulations over 50,000 then a regional rail service to the Iron Triangle could be considered.

The best approach to the closure of the Overland (in my opinion) is just to "suck it up" and hope the state government use that money for something positive.
I believe this should be the opposite. It should be the regional rail service attracting people to move to towns in the Mid North and along the Dukes Hwy as they get an extra choice to access Adelaide. Just look at Victoria. Also I think the interstate terminal should be relocated to Adelaide Railway Station to attract more passengers.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#557 Post by claybro » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:55 pm

rubberman wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:44 pm
The killer issue is the Adelaide Hills. It means that it takes a bus on the Freeway about an hour less to Murray Bridge. Perth doesn't really have that issue.

I'm not sure why there's a need for a train when buses do it faster for local and regional trips, and planes for direct connection. There's no case for a train.

Perth absolutely has the same steep scarp and winding track out of Perth as Adelaide. The trick is using smaller lighter faster more modern trains of 3 cars as opposed to a multiple carriage train, half empty and hauled by a clunking great 1960's style diesel.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#558 Post by rubberman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:09 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:55 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:44 pm
The killer issue is the Adelaide Hills. It means that it takes a bus on the Freeway about an hour less to Murray Bridge. Perth doesn't really have that issue.

I'm not sure why there's a need for a train when buses do it faster for local and regional trips, and planes for direct connection. There's no case for a train.

Perth absolutely has the same steep scarp and winding track out of Perth as Adelaide. The trick is using smaller lighter faster more modern trains of 3 cars as opposed to a multiple carriage train, half empty and hauled by a clunking great 1960's style diesel.
It doesn't look that way on the topographic maps I've seen.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#559 Post by Eurostar » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:02 pm

When airlines charge excessive amounts of dollars when there is popular AFL matches in Melbourne if The Overland was run with a diesel multiple unit train overnight at say $100 , the train would be sold out

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#560 Post by rubberman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:23 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:02 pm
When airlines charge excessive amounts of dollars when there is popular AFL matches in Melbourne if The Overland was run with a diesel multiple unit train overnight at say $100 , the train would be sold out
While they've got the carriages, they could do that during peak times, such as you say. However, a daily service that takes longer than the bus? And still has to be subsidised? Nah.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#561 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:06 pm

This is what we need for a better Overland:
  • Variable gauge, so that it can drive into ARS and use the Ararat Line
  • Tilt train, so that it can run at greater cant deficiency through the hills
  • Diesel power
Spain has similar requirements to the above, so let's look there. They have the Talgo 250, which looks like the perfect candidate for a better Overland.

https://www.talgo.com/en/rolling-stock/ ... /250-dual/

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#562 Post by Goodsy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:24 pm


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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#563 Post by Waewick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:49 pm

Well played Marshall

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#564 Post by OlympusAnt » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:47 pm

This country is still paying for the inept colonies who couldn't agree on which rail gauge to use. Rail transport in this country has always been a mess of narrow, standard and broad gauge, resulting in disconnection of key corridors and incompatibility across networks.

It simply has been too inefficient to transport by rail. Its the best method on paper, but it took too long to standardise the cross country routes.
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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#565 Post by Ho Really » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:29 pm

Waewick wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:49 pm
Well played Marshall
Yes indeed. Better the space mission control centre at Lot 14 any day.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#566 Post by Heardy_101 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:26 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:06 pm
This is what we need for a better Overland:
  • Variable gauge, so that it can drive into ARS and use the Ararat Line
  • Tilt train, so that it can run at greater cant deficiency through the hills
  • Diesel power
Spain has similar requirements to the above, so let's look there. They have the Talgo 250, which looks like the perfect candidate for a better Overland.

https://www.talgo.com/en/rolling-stock/ ... /250-dual/
Too expensive.

Better off having Duel gauge going into ARS and the other lines.
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www.saregionaltrainscampaign.com

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#567 Post by OlympusAnt » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 pm

PeFe wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:34 pm
claybro wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:12 pm
The demise of the overland really seemed to accelerate once they started diverting through Geelong. It is just too slow and indirect. I cant understand why a city of 5 million and a city of 1.3 million only 700km apart cannot make a regular daily service work, or even twice daily especially in football season, using smaller/faster cheaper to run V/Locity trains. And no- the Labor idea of just throwing a million here and there at the dinosoar Overland is not the way to go either.
Beecause the train takes 10 HOURS and the plane takes 50 MINUTES.......

Inter-city train travel works well in small densely populated areas.....this is definitely not South Australia nor Victoria.
The train wins on trips around 4 and a half hours. After that, the plane wins.
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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#568 Post by SBD » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:02 pm

https://www.portlincolntimes.com.au/sto ... on-may-31/
February 26 2019 - 1:51PM
Eyre Peninsula rail to close as agreement ends
Jarrad Delaney

Eyre Peninsula's railway network will close on May 31 as Viterra transfers its freight operations to road only.

Genesee and Wyoming Australia (GWA) notified its employees Tuesday that Viterra would not be renewing its rail grain haulage agreement and is transitioning to a road-based supply chain.

Viterra made the decision to transfer totally to road transport to ensure future efficiency and cost effectiveness of the supply chain and to remain competitive internationally.

The company's commercial and logistics manager James Murray said this decision was made based on the information it had available.

"This is a significant decision for the business, one we have very carefully assessed and considered," he said.

"We are reviewing the need for investment at our sites to support the transition from rail to road.

"If the situation changes with rail on Eyre Peninsula and it becomes efficient and cost effective compared to road freight, we will certainly reconsider our options.”

A three year agreement between Viterra and GWA began in 2015 and was extended for 12 months in 2017 as the companies worked together to assess options for shortening the line.

The options included shortening the line at Cummins and Rudall and just running to Cummins.

Viterra will begin upgrading infrastructure at its sites, including conversion of rail unloading grids to road grids.

In a statement GWA said it had worked for the past four years with Viterra and the South Australian Government to explore all commercially viable future rail options.

"These efforts have been in the face of reduced grain volumes on rail, and the historic legacy of the cost to upgrade and maintain what is an under-utilised narrow gauge-only rail network used only by one customer."

"The rail network remains open for the foreseeable future for any potential customer usage."

Thirty-three full-time GWA employees will lose their jobs as a result of the closure of the rail network.

The closure could also lead to an additional 30,000 trucks movements per year.

GWA team leader Garrie Jones said workers were informed at about 8.30am on Tuesday morning and said it had cleared up several months of not knowing the future.

"Everybody knows now, it's not so mixed up," he said.

"Some were living in hope and some weren't, but it was the fear of not knowing."

The state's peak transport industry lobby group, the South Australian Freight Council expressed its disappointment on the impending closure of the rail network.

Council executive officer Evan Knapp said the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure needed to publicly release the Eyre Peninsula Freight Strategy.

"“We call on the Minister (Stephan Knoll) to release this report so the public can understand what options it contained for keeping the rail line open, including potentially providing government support, and the impact of forcing grain on to road," he said.

"While the rail network is privately-owned infrastructure, it makes sense to consider government intervention when a decision to close the lines will raise road maintenance costs on the Eyre Peninsula for government and have implications for the broader EP community.”
I noticed that the first post to the regional rail forum 12 years ago was about upgrading this line. It looks like it's going to be a memory soon. I wonder how long rail can continue to be used to get ore to Thevenard while heavy maintenance on the rolling stock gets done in Port Lincoln.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#569 Post by SBD » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:05 pm

Another article also from the Port Lincoln Times:
https://www.portlincolntimes.com.au/sto ... hout-rail/
February 26 2019 - 5:21PM
Lower Eyre Peninsula looks to road upgrades
Jarrad Delaney
Councils on Lower Eyre Peninsula will hope to see roads upgraded and those who have lost their jobs taken care for as the region moves towards a future without an active rail network.

On Tuesday Viterra and Genesee and Wyoming Australia announced the agreement to transport grain along the Eyre Peninsula Rail Network would not continue past May 31.

Concern had been raised from councils about the estimated 30,000 additional trick movements into Port Lincoln.

Eyre Peninsula Local Government Association president Sam Telfer said it was disappointing to learn of the announcement and it was now imperative to have rapid investment into the region's road network.

"Access upgrades through Port Lincoln, intersection investment at up-country facilities, which will receive higher use, overtaking lanes and shoulder sealing on the Tod and Flinders Highways must now obtain serious investment," he said.

"Both federal and state governments must work with local government leadership to ensure the best outcomes for this highly productive part of the state, which delivers a significant percentage to its economy."

Mr Telfer said all levels of government should also work together to ensure a future export port on Eyre Peninsula came to fruition.

Port Lincoln mayor Brad Flaherty said following the decision the council would look to work with the government to ensure engineering solutions were in place for the increased road usage and to transition the people involved to ensure they remain in the region and their welfare was cared for.

"It's sad it's occurring but we've got to accept the fact our rail corridor won't be used and move to work with the government to move forward," he said.

Lower Eyre Peninsula District Council is also looking at a future without an active rail network, particularly with the impact it would have on Cummins.

Chief executive officer Rod Pearson said the council would ask for upgrades of the Tod Highway, in particular widening and the provision of passing lanes.

"It is also noted that there will be an impact on the township of Cummins by increased numbers of trucks passing through the main street as grain that has been rail freighted from north of the town is now carted on the Tod Highway," he said.

"There is always a touch of sadness when things change...however if the decision has now been made it is important that the state of the arterial roads becomes the priority."

In the state House of Representatives on Tuesday, Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Local Government Stephan Knoll said a number of options had been explored with the Commonwealth government.

"To date, we have had very productive discussions with the Commonwealth government and we are confident that we are close to delivering a solution," he said.

"We also look forward to engaging with Port Lincoln Council as we refine options going forward."

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#570 Post by rhino » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:23 am

Wow! I remember back in the 1980s when the Eyre Peninsula Network paid for the rest of the state's network. Basically, it seems that it's been allowed to run down to the point where it's no longer viable. Could it possibly be in the Government's (in the publics') interest to upgrade the system to keep grain on rail? Probably, but unlikely that they will. :(
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