News & Discussion: Regional Transport

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Norman
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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#616 Post by Norman » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:07 am

There are 3 stops in SA... Adelaide, Murray Bridge and Bordertown.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#617 Post by Eurostar » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:48 am

Norman wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:07 am
There are 3 stops in SA... Adelaide, Murray Bridge and Bordertown.
The current route and service bypasses our tourist towns I.e Hahndorf and one branch line that could work well during December and that is Lobethal.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#618 Post by SBD » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:54 am

Eurostar wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:48 am
Norman wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:07 am
There are 3 stops in SA... Adelaide, Murray Bridge and Bordertown.
The current route and service bypasses our tourist towns I.e Hahndorf and one branch line that could work well during December and that is Lobethal.
Sorry, I thought they had cancelled the Murray Bridge and Bordertown stops too. Can they be used to travel to Adelaide or only to Melbourne?

Balhannah station would be reasonably located for Melbourne tourists to the hills area. It wouldn’t make sense to promote The Overland for travel from Adelaide to Balhannah (or Ambleside for Hahndorf) then tow the emptied carriages to Melbourne. That should become part of a new SA service.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#619 Post by Eurostar » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:51 pm

SBD wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:54 am
Eurostar wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:48 am
Norman wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:07 am
There are 3 stops in SA... Adelaide, Murray Bridge and Bordertown.
The current route and service bypasses our tourist towns I.e Hahndorf and one branch line that could work well during December and that is Lobethal.
Sorry, I thought they had cancelled the Murray Bridge and Bordertown stops too. Can they be used to travel to Adelaide or only to Melbourne?

Balhannah station would be reasonably located for Melbourne tourists to the hills area. It wouldn’t make sense to promote The Overland for travel from Adelaide to Balhannah (or Ambleside for Hahndorf) then tow the emptied carriages to Melbourne. That should become part of a new SA service.
I meant a station close to Hahndorf to attract the Victorians so you'd have the Melbourne to Adelaide service set down at Hahndorf or as close as possible and the Adelaide to Melbourne service pick up at Hahndorf or as close as possible.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#620 Post by PeFe » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:05 am

OMG !.......flogging a dead horse......when will the economic reality of the Overland service sink in with some people....

It will eventually die........and the few remaining will passengers will use buses in South Australia, and in Victoria buses to the nearest V-Line train station.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#621 Post by Eurostar » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:51 am

PeFe wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:05 am
OMG !.......flogging a dead horse......when will the economic reality of the Overland service sink in with some people....

It will eventually die........and the few remaining will passengers will use buses in South Australia, and in Victoria buses to the nearest V-Line train station.
On a train like The Overland you can walk around on board, purchase food and eat on board, purchase drink on board, sleep on board (way better seats). Also the train doesn't have to dawdle through towns and stop for traffic lights. Would it be cheaper for the State Government company to run it rather than a private company, change platform 9 at Adelaide Railway Station to dual gauge, also buy and run Velocity trains.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#622 Post by rubberman » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:29 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:51 am
PeFe wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:05 am
OMG !.......flogging a dead horse......when will the economic reality of the Overland service sink in with some people....

It will eventually die........and the few remaining will passengers will use buses in South Australia, and in Victoria buses to the nearest V-Line train station.
On a train like The Overland you can walk around on board, purchase food and eat on board, purchase drink on board, sleep on board (way better seats). Also the train doesn't have to dawdle through towns and stop for traffic lights. Would it be cheaper for the State Government company to run it rather than a private company, change platform 9 at Adelaide Railway Station to dual gauge, also buy and run Velocity trains.
I think the opportunity to do that was lost with the hospital redevelopment.

It would have made sense to locate the hospital, IMVS and med school at Keswick and locate the interstate train terminal at the CBD.

Too late.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#623 Post by SBD » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:32 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:51 am
PeFe wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:05 am
OMG !.......flogging a dead horse......when will the economic reality of the Overland service sink in with some people....

It will eventually die........and the few remaining will passengers will use buses in South Australia, and in Victoria buses to the nearest V-Line train station.
On a train like The Overland you can walk around on board, purchase food and eat on board, purchase drink on board, sleep on board (way better seats). Also the train doesn't have to dawdle through towns and stop for traffic lights. Would it be cheaper for the State Government company to run it rather than a private company, change platform 9 at Adelaide Railway Station to dual gauge, also buy and run Velocity trains.
Yes, trains are nicer than buses. So why aren’t people using The Overland?

I have never used The Overland, but I’ve been to Melbourne many times. If I’m travelling for work, or going to Melbourne, I fly. If I’m going to several places including Melbourne, I drive. I have used the Ghan to Alice Springs, the Trans-Australian to Perth and the Indian Pacific to Sydney. I don’t think I’ve ever done an interstate bus trip.

So most people don’t use The Overland - Either it is too slow (compare air, and perhaps bus), too expensive or there is something we haven’t thought of. If it’s mostly used to take South Australians to Victoria and back, let the Victorians pay for us to visit them.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#624 Post by TorrensSA » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:51 pm

I would say it's mainly price, but I found tickets on the Overland for $69 (weirdly the concession price is more at $84 lol), the V/Line bus (and train) to Melbourne is $67.20. But most people using the bus service would have a pension card which makes the bus only $33.60 (you can use any states pension card), so the bus is way cheaper, Victorian pensioners with a travel voucher can do the Overland for $50. The $69 fare seems to be a special, which would account for it being less than the concession price. The bus goes to Bendigo where you need to change to a train.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#625 Post by SBD » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:15 am

TorrensSA wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:51 pm
I would say it's mainly price, but I found tickets on the Overland for $69 (weirdly the concession price is more at $84 lol), the V/Line bus (and train) to Melbourne is $67.20. But most people using the bus service would have a pension card which makes the bus only $33.60 (you can use any states pension card), so the bus is way cheaper, Victorian pensioners with a travel voucher can do the Overland for $50. The $69 fare seems to be a special, which would account for it being less than the concession price. The bus goes to Bendigo where you need to change to a train.
So if the train is to justify 50% - 100% premium over the bus, it needs to be marketed as providing something better. People above have pointed out that it keeps moving while you eat and drink, and you can get up and walk around when you feel like it. People pay for "premium economy" on planes and ferries. They will pay for a premium service on land if they can see the benefit for the extra money.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#626 Post by how good is he » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:01 am

Have they ever produced the numbers of people using it (or lack thereof) over the past say 5 years? That would be the best indicator of the situation. My guess it’s a big decline every year and the future is grim if it continues at the same rate.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#627 Post by Bob » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:40 am

A medium-term option has been considered to remove The Overland as a standalone service and extend The Ghan as a full service to a Melbourne-Darwin route.

Long term, if an Adelaide rail bypass is ever built, is an option to run The Ghan on the bypass around Adelaide & no longer into it), & move the railway operations HQ to either Parkes (special logistic economic zone) or to Port Augusta (original Commonwealth Railway depot location). I am sure I have mentioned this before in the past somewhere, on this SA forum. Also, The Indian Pacific route long term consideration may not include Adelaide, if the railway operations HQ relocates.

I don’t think people have come to grips with what / who the current owners and investors in GSR are – and what they expect ($$$), suffice to say it is the opposite of what the original South Australian Railways were, when government owned to provide a service to the public.

If this occurs, it would unfold over many years in stages – not going to happen tomorrow.

In an ideal world, a proper service for the public from the Adelaide Railway Station not only to Melbourne but also other key regional areas such as Upper Spencer Gulf, Barossa Valley & Mt Gambier would be great, but unfortunately there is not the $$$ to upgrade regional rail that is not on the ARTC mainlines, nor the population to support it, nor the significant freight volumes available and no political will towards rail from the current State Government, makes the gap bigger and bigger as time goes by.

I still have an issue with no daily train to the premier wine region of Australia - from a tourism point of view it is really hard to accept. We cant even get that together, which is embarrassing. Unless the government steps in, a private operator alone cannot make it work, the same goes for any regional lines.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#628 Post by SBD » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:49 am

The Indian Pacific ran for many years without coming in to Adelaide. That has only been possible since the standard gauge line got extended to Adelaide. Some decades ago when I was a kid, we changed trains in Port Pirie to use the train to get to Perth.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#629 Post by EBG » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:44 pm

I returned from Melbourne on the June long weekend by the overland while it was still possible. It was much cheaper than flying. At least 3 couples got off at Murray Bridge, including one couple who got on at North Geelong. The food was excellent. one way to speed up the service would be to use the Victorian velocity units instead of rather than diesel hauled carriages that are limited to 100 kph. Once, in desperation, I bussed to the gold Coast -never again.

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Re: News & Discussion: Regional Transport

#630 Post by Aidan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:41 pm

EBG, since when have the diesel hauled carriages been limited to 100km/h? They used to do 120.

In Melbourne a few weeks ago I found hotels there charge double on Saturday night. Could The Overland be scheduled for Saturday night running to take advantage of that?.
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