News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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ralmin
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4321 Post by ralmin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:47 am

Is is true that any station at which the tram-train needed to stop would have needed to be modified to have a platform at a lower height to suit boarding the tram-train?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4322 Post by PD2/20 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:16 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:32 am
PD2/20 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:04 am
I would suggest two factors in the abandonment. One of the drivers for the tram/train was to service Football Park at West Lakes. This was removed by the Adelaide Oval redevelopment initiated in 2010. The second factor was the need for gauge conversion. As this would have involved the entire AdMet network including the depot and stabling facilities and conversion of all rolling stock, it would have entailed extended system closures and logistical compexity.
Yes I understood gauge was part of the issue, but that is also covered in Eurooe by dual gauge tracks. Even without AAMI stadium now, the Wrst Lakes area is becoming quite high density and should be served by rail. Surely the combination of heavy rail serving the longer OH line and light rail using the same corridors but multiple branches was the ideal outcome for the North West. I don't get why it is so hard, when the technology already exists, as does the corridor.
How many of the European tram/train systems are in fact dual guage? Dual gauge track can be challenging with regard to platform clearances and pointwork construction. The comparitively small difference between stand and broad gauge also imposes limitations on the type and weight of rail and fasteners used.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4323 Post by PD2/20 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:20 pm

ralmin wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:47 am
Is is true that any station at which the tram-train needed to stop would have needed to be modified to have a platform at a lower height to suit boarding the tram-train?
Generally yes.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4324 Post by claybro » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:42 pm

All of the "issues" we seem to find insurmountable are all covered in numerous examples elsewhere. You want a tram running in an underground metro?.. yep. It's just a tram in a tunnel. You want it to share a road?.. that's what they do. You want a tram to share a heavy rail track?..done.. multiple power sources ?.. yep. Hilly terrain?... check. Coupleing for more capacity.?..no probs.hell you want it to carry freight ?..yep. All running efficiently, suiting the exact need of a given area/demographic/ topography/cost. Meanwhile in Oz.. maybe with the exception of Melbourne, we find the most expensive, least efficient, average solution to any given need...then give up and decide buses are easier. Noisy polluting traffic clogging limited capacity buses. When our "experts" are dragged kicking and screaming to lay 500m of extra track.. it takes forever, costs even more.. and is then closed down for repairs and alterations.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4325 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 pm

One of the great things about the Outer Harbor route, in particular, is that it's straight from Nairne Junction to Port Adelaide. This means the wheel profile is not a concern, you could run trams or trains of any type. Dual gauge is difficult because of the closeness of broad and standard gauge, but bear in mind the inner rail only needs to support trams, so it could be thinner than the other rails.

Gauge conversion is not as difficult as it's made out to be. The rolling stock is easy to gauge convert. It only took two weeks to convert the Adelaide-Melbourne railway. Adelaide Metro has one fifth the track, plus the sleepers are ready to go. I reckon the Adelaide Metro network could be converted in a weekend.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4326 Post by Spotto » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:01 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 pm
Gauge conversion is not as difficult as it's made out to be. The rolling stock is easy to gauge convert. It only took two weeks to convert the Adelaide-Melbourne railway. Adelaide Metro has one fifth the track, plus the sleepers are ready to go. I reckon the Adelaide Metro network could be converted in a weekend.
C'mon, this is Adelaide we're talking about... :lol:

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4327 Post by Goodsy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:25 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 pm
Gauge conversion is not as difficult as it's made out to be. The rolling stock is easy to gauge convert. It only took two weeks to convert the Adelaide-Melbourne railway. Adelaide Metro has one fifth the track, plus the sleepers are ready to go. I reckon the Adelaide Metro network could be converted in a weekend.
After the American Civil War the entire American South brought their gauge into line with the rest of the USA.

They converted 11,500 miles of track in 36 hours

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4328 Post by EBG » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:55 pm

The metropolitan network was supposed to be convert to standard gauge in 2013!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4329 Post by [Shuz] » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:02 am


After the American Civil War the entire American South brought their gauge into line with the rest of the USA.

They converted 11,500 miles of track in 36 hours
Yeah, using black slavery... bit of an important omission there.
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4330 Post by SRW » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:06 am

[Shuz] wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:02 am

After the American Civil War the entire American South brought their gauge into line with the rest of the USA.

They converted 11,500 miles of track in 36 hours
Yeah, using black slavery... bit of an important omission there.
You might want to reread the timeline there -- after the Civil War and thereby also after emancipation and the 13th Amendment. You probably still have a valid point to make regarding labour rights and standards during the Reconstruction era versus nowadays that would roadblock replicating such a feat.
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4331 Post by Goodsy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:26 pm

[Shuz] wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:02 am

Yeah, using black slavery... bit of an important omission there.
no..

https://youtu.be/4v81Gwu6BTE?t=274s

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4332 Post by OlympusAnt » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:23 pm

Spotto wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:01 pm
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 pm
Gauge conversion is not as difficult as it's made out to be. The rolling stock is easy to gauge convert. It only took two weeks to convert the Adelaide-Melbourne railway. Adelaide Metro has one fifth the track, plus the sleepers are ready to go. I reckon the Adelaide Metro network could be converted in a weekend.
C'mon, this is Adelaide we're talking about... :lol:
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4333 Post by Listy » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:41 am

A 26 tonne load limit to be imposed on the King William Rd bridge, with significant repairs needed within the next decade. I guess this makes a tramline into North Adelaide contingent on the bridge being repaired first.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-04/ ... d/11476978

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4334 Post by rubberman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:15 pm

Listy wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:41 am
A 26 tonne load limit to be imposed on the King William Rd bridge, with significant repairs needed within the next decade. I guess this makes a tramline into North Adelaide contingent on the bridge being repaired first.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-04/ ... d/11476978
This was fine up to the point where it said that the new trams are heavier than the old trams. Not so. A coupled set of H trams has almost exactly the same axle load as the Flexities and the Citadis.

When this was discussed here previously, I pointed out that either the bridge upgrade was unnecessary because tram axle loads were no greater now than in the 1950s OR if the bridge had degraded to the point where it couldn't take trams, then what about other users such as trucks or buses?

It seems as if the whole bridge needs an upgrade.

The good news is that in that case, the cost can be shared between trams and other road users. It's far cheaper to do the bridge in one project, rather than do just tram lines, then the road lanes. Plus, less traffic disruption by doing it once.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4335 Post by claybro » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:29 pm

IA Australia have previously indicated a willingness to provide federal funds for light rail. If the state government were smart, they coukd make a business case using urban consolidation at the northern end of Prospect Road as a business case, and they could roll the bridge upgrade into a tram extension to ProspectRoad as stage 1, partially funded by the Feds. Will this happen? ... no.

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