News & Discussion: Trams

[rev]

If people who have nothing better to do but run around taking photos and keeping track of trams and trains, not to mention take such a high interest in something they aren't involved in they can quote standards, types of metal used, and specific components that have no relevance in their life, have noticed, then I'm sure the people who are on site day and night, whose job it is, have noticed.

If people are so concerned, why doesn't someone email DPTI, ask them if they are aware of the potential problem, or if it even is a problem, instead of gossiping about it on Internet forums and arguing about who is right and wrong.

[rubberman]

If people who have nothing better to do but run around taking photos and keeping track of trams and trains, not to mention take such a high interest in something they aren't involved in they can quote standards, types of metal used, and specific components that have no relevance in their life, have noticed, then I'm sure the people who are on site day and night, whose job it is, have noticed.

If people are so concerned, why doesn't someone email DPTI, ask them if they are aware of the potential problem, or if it even is a problem, instead of gossiping about it on Internet forums and arguing about who is right and wrong.

Emailed DPTI about the bridge stuff, including a direct reference to their standard at the time mandating that tram axle design loads must be the same as railcars. Yes, in print, design for tram axle loads same as railcars. No response. Followed up. Got a standard, we have referred this to the correct people. Then crickets. That's why.

[rubberman]

Close up of ground out cracks.

20180516_123604_resized.jpg (492.39 KiB) Viewed 3309 times

[citywatcher]

Cos we know the govt is efficient and truthful and competent always

If people who have nothing better to do but run around taking photos and keeping track of trams and trains, not to mention take such a high interest in something they aren't involved in they can quote standards, types of metal used, and specific components that have no relevance in their life, have noticed, then I'm sure the people who are on site day and night, whose job it is, have noticed.

If people are so concerned, why doesn't someone email DPTI, ask them if they are aware of the potential problem, or if it even is a problem, instead of gossiping about it on Internet forums and arguing about who is right and wrong.

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

[Bob]

If people who have nothing better to do but run around taking photos and keeping track of trams and trains, not to mention take such a high interest in something they aren't involved in they can quote standards, types of metal used, and specific components that have no relevance in their life, have noticed, then I'm sure the people who are on site day and night, whose job it is, have noticed.

If people are so concerned, why doesn't someone email DPTI, ask them if they are aware of the potential problem, or if it even is a problem, instead of gossiping about it on Internet forums and arguing about who is right and wrong.

Actually I did email DPTI about the state of the poles asking specific questions to ascertain if this is the final arrangement, or if there are issues that need addressing.

I have not received a reply. Going on previous track record nor I do expect a reply, but it was worth asking for clarification in any case, an attempt was made to no avail, thus far.

[ChillyPhilly]

Some concrete cracks were being filled in then subsequently sanded down today.

[OlympusAnt]

The North Tce extension is a total unmitigated disaster in my book.

It takes a lane away from North Tce in each direction, where the existing lights were already poorly sequenced and turned it into a crawl at the best of times.

Its a 10 min walk from the Adelaide Uni to Parliament, which is about the same as the tram will be, especially with trams not having priority at lights.

There are no hotels along that section either, so people wanting to go to the airport won't need it.

Patronage will be low after the initial bandwagon period has worn off.

The money should have been better spent upgrading the rail network, with better station infrastructure, electrification and maybe even a grade separation at Hove.

[rubberman]

The North Tce extension is a total unmitigated disaster in my book.

It takes a lane away from North Tce in each direction, where the existing lights were already poorly sequenced and turned it into a crawl at the best of times.

Its a 10 min walk from the Adelaide Uni to Parliament, which is about the same as the tram will be, especially with trams not having priority at lights.

There are no hotels along that section either, so people wanting to go to the airport won't need it.

Patronage will be low after the initial bandwagon period has worn off.

The money should have been better spent upgrading the rail network, with better station infrastructure, electrification and maybe even a grade separation at Hove.

The problem is that the trains have already had $2.5bn spent on upgrades in the past ten years. Station renovations, grade separations, complete relaying of lines, electrification.

Yet despite this huge spend, and the likely cost of Gawler electrification, and the extension to The FMC, the the total patronage is woeful compared to the trams. There's about five times the patronage on the trains, but the costs are hugely more than five times. That's the ouch point.

Take a look at this: https://profile.id.com.au/adelaide/travel-to-work

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected] ... May%202009

If economics was the criterion, the rail system would be abandoned. It's likely to cost more to do all the electrifications and extensions and new railcars than a whole new tram system.

Now, I am not trying to start World War 3 here, but if economics are on the table, trains don't cut it. Just one look at the money that's been poured, and promised to be poured into a mode that compares poorly to trams in terms of numbers carried is not a winning formula. In fact, I wouldn't mind placing a bet that the Liberals' new infrastructure checking department won't be eying it off as a big target.

I'd also add that the existing extension was planned to be part of a bigger system, that is to Norwood and beyond, plus the city loop. So, the economics needs to take that into account.

[claybro]

Trains in Adelaide are poorly patronised because they are poorly run. Electric trains capable of 130 km/h are run at around half that speed on close stopping routes, with stations tucked away in suburban backstreets that service no interchanges or major shopping/ service districts. Express buses run virtually parallel with the trains on nearby main roads. Madness. Upgrading the lines without upgrading the whole urban environment surrounding the stations and creating bus feeder interchanges has been a bit of a waste, and typical of the dis jointed planning approach of the former government. It remains to be seen if the new government have any more of an idea than the previous lot.

[rubberman]

Trains in Adelaide are poorly patronised because they are poorly run. Electric trains capable of 130 km/h are run at around half that speed on close stopping routes, with stations tucked away in suburban backstreets that service no interchanges or major shopping/ service districts. Express buses run virtually parallel with the trains on nearby main roads. Madness. Upgrading the lines without upgrading the whole urban environment surrounding the stations and creating bus feeder interchanges has been a bit of a waste, and typical of the dis jointed planning approach of the former government. It remains to be seen if the new government have any more of an idea than the previous lot.

Yep. But similar can be said of tram operation in respect of its operations etc etc. It's almost as if they are trying to run the trains like a tramway (close stops), and the trams like a railway (lots of signalling and centre platforms and no buses on the tram tracks)...and getting the worst of both worlds.

The point is though that trains and trams are grossly uneconomic as presently run. Now, maybe the Liberals could improve that, or maybe they will use iit as an excuse to say it's uneconomic and shut stuff down, or at least stop future development "as sound and responsible economic managers". I'm betting on the last option, given past performance and the competence demonstrated in opposition.

However, slamming tram economics while advocating more train spending is a bit of pot and kettling that is unprofitable.

[claybro]

Yep. But similar can be said of tram operation in respect of its operations etc etc. It's almost as if they are trying to run the trains like a tramway (close stops), and the trams like a railway (lots of signalling and centre platforms and no buses on the tram tracks)...and getting the worst of both worlds.

The point is though that trains and trams are grossly uneconomic as presently run. Now, maybe the Liberals could improve that, or maybe they will use iit as an excuse to say it's uneconomic and shut stuff down, or at least stop future development "as sound and responsible economic managers". I'm betting on the last option, given past performance and the competence demonstrated in opposition.

However, slamming tram economics while advocating more train spending is a bit of pot and kettling that is unprofitable.

Absolutely agree with all of this rubberman. The trams, like the trains are having multi millions thrown at them, and with good reason, only to be let down by confused planning of extensions, implementation timelines, and potential use. The operation of both systems is really amateurish stuff. Both systems are slower than they need to be, and don't really achieve what they need to or are capable of. Suffice to say though...closure of any of the rail would be an absolute disaster as buses simply would not cope. Time to get the trains doing what they are designed for...large volumes of commuters over long distances quickly. Time to get the trams up to speed so the public/ developers/councils can see their potential and demand them for the intermediate locations. Time to get buses to stop trying to be trains and running express from the likes or Noarlunga, Gawler or wherever competing with the trains and clogging up the roads.

[Norman]

At least one of the tram stops (Gawler Place) has received some more interesting glass:



This was only on one side of the tram stop from memory.

[Nort]

The North Tce extension is a total unmitigated disaster in my book.

It takes a lane away from North Tce in each direction, where the existing lights were already poorly sequenced and turned it into a crawl at the best of times.

It doesn't take a lane away. Lanes are still there, cars just aren't being prioritised as much.

Its a 10 min walk from the Adelaide Uni to Parliament, which is about the same as the tram will be, especially with trams not having priority at lights.

That could apply for any tram route between two points in the city.

There are no hotels along that section either, so people wanting to go to the airport won't need it.

One is currently being built right near the Frome Road/North Terrace intersection. There's also the Majestic Rooftop near there, one large student accommodation almost finished and another 100m+ one planned right next to the tram line.

Patronage will be low after the initial bandwagon period has worn off.

*citation needed*

The money should have been better spent upgrading the rail network, with better station infrastructure, electrification and maybe even a grade separation at Hove.

Possibly.

[The Scooter Guy]

From today, seen from the Myer Centre Carpark!
North Tce Tramway Extensions (18/05/2018) by Ryan Smith, on Flickr
North Tce Tramway Extensions (18/05/2018) by Ryan Smith, on Flickr
North Tce Tramway Extensions (18/05/2018) by Ryan Smith, on Flickr
North Tce Tramway Extensions (18/05/2018) by Ryan Smith, on Flickr

[SRW]

I hope that Stephen's Place slip lane is gone for good