News & Discussion: Trams

[ChillyPhilly]

Further to photos added so far.

[Haso]

.
It will be interesting to find out what’s going on with this one (TRANSPORTATION OF THREE CITADIS 302 LIGHT RAIL VEHICLES FROM MADRID, SPAIN TO SOUTH AUSTRALIA)… http://www.tendersonline.com.au/TenderD ... uid=471501

[rubberman]

Well, it looks like they're going to buy the Citadis. Frankly, this is a test for the Opposition.

The government has set the bar so low here, that if the Opposition is even half competent, it should be able to rip the Government a new one.

From my perspective, given the next election being early next year, a competent Opposition will be all over this. If the Opposition can't land a punch on issue an issue like this, Jay is set for another term. And while I would hope the Opposition can come up with a critique and something better which would indicate it is ready for government, if it doesn't it shows that it hasn't got what it takes. So, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[Llessur2002]

Well, it looks like they're going to buy the Citadis. Frankly, this is a test for the Opposition.

The government has set the bar so low here, that if the Opposition is even half competent, it should be able to rip the Government a new one.

From my perspective, given the next election being early next year, a competent Opposition will be all over this. If the Opposition can't land a punch on issue an issue like this, Jay is set for another term. And while I would hope the Opposition can come up with a critique and something better which would indicate it is ready for government, if it doesn't it shows that it hasn't got what it takes. So, it will be interesting to see what happens.

I really don't think the Opposition has any interest in the tram network whatsoever and I can't therefore see them allocating resources to formulate an alternative proposal as my understanding is their preference would be no new trams and no new tram lines. Suggesting an alternative would mean they would need to show some genuine interest in expanding the system which, other than trashing the proposed Unley and Prospect Road extensions, they have rarely ever mentioned.

Plus, has the purchase price actually been revealed yet?

[fishinajar]

.
It will be interesting to find out what’s going on with this one (TRANSPORTATION OF THREE CITADIS 302 LIGHT RAIL VEHICLES FROM MADRID, SPAIN TO SOUTH AUSTRALIA)… http://www.tendersonline.com.au/TenderD ... uid=471501

This may be just to determine the total purchase and transport costs. Others tenders for supply may be inclusive of delivery.

[citywatcher]

I've heard that the opposition will explore tram extensions only where new wok in the box franchises can be built at regular stops along them

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[rubberman]

Well, it looks like they're going to buy the Citadis. Frankly, this is a test for the Opposition.

The government has set the bar so low here, that if the Opposition is even half competent, it should be able to rip the Government a new one.

From my perspective, given the next election being early next year, a competent Opposition will be all over this. If the Opposition can't land a punch on issue an issue like this, Jay is set for another term. And while I would hope the Opposition can come up with a critique and something better which would indicate it is ready for government, if it doesn't it shows that it hasn't got what it takes. So, it will be interesting to see what happens.

I really don't think the Opposition has any interest in the tram network whatsoever and I can't therefore see them allocating resources to formulate an alternative proposal as my understanding is their preference would be no new trams and no new tram lines. Suggesting an alternative would mean they would need to show some genuine interest in expanding the system which, other than trashing the proposed Unley and Prospect Road extensions, they have rarely ever mentioned.

Plus, has the purchase price actually been revealed yet?

You are probably right. However, if they want to become the next SA Government, they need to convince people that the present government isn't all that good, AND that they can do better. Over the next year, swinging voters are going to start tyre kicking to see if maybe Steve and his team would stack up against Jay and his team.

That means they have to take advantage of every opportunity. If this was the year after an election, maybe it could slide. However, in the lead up to the next election, they've got to hit the government AND come up with something better. Otherwise, they will lose. And so they should if they can't be bothered to make an effort.

In the case of trams, the ALP has set a low bar. The works at Jetty Road could have used Whyalla steel, same for works in South Terrace and North Terrace. How hard would it be for the Opposition to fly the SA Whyalla flag and point that out? Or point out that if the ALP really intended to build Adelink, then they would have planned for the Nth Tce extension and bought Flexities, or put out a tender for three trams now and options for a further 50 in X years. How hard would it be for the Opposition to point out that either the government didn't plan for the extra trams for North Terrace, or that it really isn't planning on doing Adelink anytime soon. Or, heaven forbid, actually doing some work of their own and developing an alternative. It worked for David Tonkin with the O-bahn vs trams for NEAPTR. But, like I said, an opposition has to do the work.

But it's early times yet.

[citywatcher]

Must remember the o-bahn is a failure.
No one else in the world adopted it. They all went for trams instead. This is another danger in the current climate. Adopting something else just to appear to be providing a better alternative to the incumbents.

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[Norman]

Must remember the o-bahn is a failure.
No one else in the world adopted it. They all went for trams instead. This is another danger in the current climate. Adopting something else just to appear to be providing a better alternative to the incumbents.

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Why would you judge the success of a piece of infrastructure on how it is adopted around the world? It should be measured on how successful it has been in serving the targeted area.

Has the O-Bahn served the north-east well? Yes it has. Can it be improved? Yes, of course, with better co-ordination with suburban services, more dense development around the interchanges and better parking management. Could it have just as been successful if it was a train or tram? Possibly, but the O-Bahn is one of the most (if not the most) used transport routes in Adelaide. I would deem that a success in its own right.

[citywatcher]

Must remember the o-bahn is a failure.
No one else in the world adopted it. They all went for trams instead. This is another danger in the current climate. Adopting something else just to appear to be providing a better alternative to the incumbents.

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Why would you judge the success of a piece of infrastructure on how it is adopted around the world? It should be measured on how successful it has been in serving the targeted area.

Has the O-Bahn served the north-east well? Yes it has. Can it be improved? Yes, of course, with better co-ordination with suburban services, more dense development around the interchanges and better parking management. Could it have just as been successful if it was a train or tram? Possibly, but the O-Bahn is one of the most (if not the most) used transport routes in Adelaide. I would deem that a success in its own right.

So all over the world the obahn was rejected and trams used instead but you can't see the significance of this ?

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[Nathan]

No one else in the world adopted it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bu ... ed_busways

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... nt_systems

[citywatcher]

No one else adopted the O-BAHN system. This is fact. A handful of similar technology exists but it pales against the universal use of trams.

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[rubberman]

It depends on the context. It got Dr Tonkin elected as Premier. It is well regarded by those who use it. It was much cheaper than a tramway. It has worked reliably for thirty plus years. It has certainly been a success in SA, based on cost, effectiveness and public acceptance.

From our perspective, it has been a success. Maybe it wouldn't work anywhere else in the world, who knows? But the fact remains that by all measures of success, it has worked well here.

The point is that just because something works elsewhere, doesn't mean it will work here, and conversely, if it fails elsewhere, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will fail here.

Horses for courses.

[Nathan]

No one else adopted the O-BAHN system. This is fact. A handful of similar technology exists but it pales against the universal use of trams.

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You're splitting hairs. Does it matter if there is or is not the exact same implementation? It's a guided busway, and there are other guided busways. I'm not saying it's better than a tram, but the "no one else has one" argument isn't a very strong one.

[citywatcher]

Listen. There is no other obahn busway in the world. No one else bought it. Only us forty years ago. Similarly there are other guided busways in the world tried with similar results. It was a novelty that failed hence there are not many examples of them and they have been all but put out of business by trams. Can you split those hairs or is critical thinking not possible for you.

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