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Bob wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:18 am

I got the information third hand from a source who was present when Steven Marshall made the comment along the lines of ‘its makes sense to extend the tram to Adelaide Oval’. I am just the messenger. As I did not hear it directly myself, I treat this as a 'rumour'.

I interpreted this as being in association with a successful CW games bid, but on reflection maybe this is to support the AO hotel? Crazy thought I know, but anything is possible in regards to the questionable dealings in regards to the AO hotel.

There is a lot of speculation floating around recently in regards to the tram extension north, either to AO or to NA, I would not be surprised if we see some sort of infrastructure position statement by the end of 2019 on what the long term plan is regarding this route. We will have to wait and see. Originally I did think we would have to wait until the last year of the Liberal Party term to get an announcement, but I think something may be coming sooner now, however that is just my gut feel.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if information is being trickled out to test the waters, as the tram extension is one of the Top 10 infrastructure projects being reviewed this year by the new Infrastructure SA team. Who knows how far that process is advanced? Anyone's guess, but the CW games bid would have added urgency into the review I would have thought. If you want Federal funding under the CW games proviso, best to have your infrastructure required plans up to speed when you put your final bid forward, I would have thought.

Lets see what happens.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:43 am

Bob wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:18 am

I got the information third hand from a source who was present when Steven Marshall made the comment along the lines of ‘its makes sense to extend the tram to Adelaide Oval’. I am just the messenger. As I did not hear it directly myself, I treat this as a 'rumour'.

I interpreted this as being in association with a successful CW games bid, but on reflection maybe this is to support the AO hotel? Crazy thought I know, but anything is possible in regards to the questionable dealings in regards to the AO hotel.

There is a lot of speculation floating around recently in regards to the tram extension north, either to AO or to NA, I would not be surprised if we see some sort of infrastructure position statement by the end of 2019 on what the long term plan is regarding this route. We will have to wait and see. Originally I did think we would have to wait until the last year of the Liberal Party term to get an announcement, but I think something may be coming sooner now, however that is just my gut feel.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if information is being trickled out to test the waters, as the tram extension is one of the Top 10 infrastructure projects being reviewed this year by the new Infrastructure SA team. Who knows how far that process is advanced? Anyone's guess, but the CW games bid would have added urgency into the review I would have thought. If you want Federal funding under the CW games proviso, best to have your infrastructure required plans up to speed when you put your final bid forward, I would have thought.

Lets see what happens.

The tram project in the Infrastructure SA list is at number 4, and is: "An extension of tram services in the CBD".

That implies Citylink rather than the line to North Adelaide.

Not that this means much, rather that the extension past the Adelaide Oval is probably a separate project, possibly linked to the Commonwealth Games as suggested previously. Plus, of course when governments are developing projects, many options are floated as thought bubbles and most are discarded. This may be one such thought bubble. Oh, and the Infrastructure list refers to a 20 year timeframe. So even if it's supported, it might be 2039 before it happens.

Like for all rumours, I agree with bob...wait and see.

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:56 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

The issue with the bridge boils down to this: the economics of tram extensions is often hard to justify. Unless the extension to North Adelaide is economic, the Liberal Government has every right to can it, and most voters would applaud. So, adding $20-30million to the cost may well kill the extension.

Personally, if the extension is uneconomic, then the Government is doing the right thing if it shelves the project. Do we really want to give the government a ready made reason for abandoning this? If the upgrade is really necessary, we should face the possibility that there will be no tram extension to North Adelaide.

It would be really sad if the tram to North Adelaide never went ahead because it would have involved an unnecessary bridge upgrade.

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:31 pm

rubberman wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:56 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

The issue with the bridge boils down to this: the economics of tram extensions is often hard to justify. Unless the extension to North Adelaide is economic, the Liberal Government has every right to can it, and most voters would applaud. So, adding $20-30million to the cost may well kill the extension.

Personally, if the extension is uneconomic, then the Government is doing the right thing if it shelves the project. Do we really want to give the government a ready made reason for abandoning this? If the upgrade is really necessary, we should face the possibility that there will be no tram extension to North Adelaide.

It would be really sad if the tram to North Adelaide never went ahead because it would have involved an unnecessary bridge upgrade.

Even if it does need upgrading, how do we know the cost is realistic and not an inflated figure? $30 million is a lot for unknown upgrades.

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

normh wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

I think the perfect place for the new tram depot is on Port Road in the Coke a Cola site which closed/closing, lots of space, and right on the line.

normh wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The next tram service extension needs to be big enough to absorb the costs associated with a new/expanded depot and more vehicles to operate it. Those costs are too much to be absorbed in a plan to just provide a daily/peak hour service to the existing Elder Park stop. If the King William Road bridge needs to be strengthened (I am not buying into whether either engineering standards or trams have changed since the 1950s), that is another "hidden cost" that has to be amortised as part of a larger project.

Overall, look for an appropriate site for a new tram depot, then the next project has to be big enough to provide a new depot, tracks to/past it, and enough trams to operate peak hour services on that new line.

I think the perfect place for the new tram depot is on Port Road in the Coke a Cola site which closed/closing, lots of space, and right on the line.

SBD wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 pm

I'm not sure what is still being used at Islington Works, nor who owns it.

A possibility might be to build the tram all the way up O'COnnell Street and Prospect Road to Regency Road, then down to an interchange at a revamped Islington Station, then follow the unused access track under the bridge and behind Bunnings to a tram depot in part of the former railway workshops.