News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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ChillyPhilly
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4126 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:13 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:18 pm
SBD wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 pm
I'm not sure what is still being used at Islington Works, nor who owns it.

A possibility might be to build the tram all the way up O'COnnell Street and Prospect Road to Regency Road, then down to an interchange at a revamped Islington Station, then follow the unused access track under the bridge and behind Bunnings to a tram depot in part of the former railway workshops.
The broad gauge side is completely disused. I think Genesee & Wyoming owns it. It could easily be transformed into a new tram depot.
That siding is still used by ARTC.
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4127 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:48 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:13 am
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:18 pm
SBD wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 pm
I'm not sure what is still being used at Islington Works, nor who owns it.

A possibility might be to build the tram all the way up O'COnnell Street and Prospect Road to Regency Road, then down to an interchange at a revamped Islington Station, then follow the unused access track under the bridge and behind Bunnings to a tram depot in part of the former railway workshops.
The broad gauge side is completely disused. I think Genesee & Wyoming owns it. It could easily be transformed into a new tram depot.
That siding is still used by ARTC.
Given that we haven't had any broad gauge freight since 2015, what are they doing with it?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4128 Post by PeFe » Thu May 02, 2019 11:39 am

City south tram works timetable
City South Tram Line Replacement
When: From Tuesday 7 May 2019

Routes affected: GLNELG BTANIC FESTVL
City South tram line replacement
The City South tram line replacement project will replace the existing tracks along King William Street between Victoria Square (at the intersection of Gouger and Angas Street) and South Terrace. The City South tram stop at the intersection of Sturt/Halifax Street and King William Street will be replaced as part of the project.

Design works are underway with construction expected to commence in the second quarter of 2019 and be completed in the third quarter of 2019, weather permitting.

There will be a period of major construction when tram services will be impacted. Substitute buses will be in place during this period between South Terrace and the Entertainment Centre, and to the East End. Trams will operate between Glenelg and South Terrace.

Early investigation works
Investigation works in preparation for the upgrade of the tram tracks between Victoria Square and South Terrace are scheduled to commence on Tuesday 7 May and be completed by mid-May, weather permitting. These works will occur between the hours of 8pm to 6am.

Works will involve investigations of existing infrastructure, general underground services, drainage works and traffic signals.

These works are being undertaken at night in order to minimise the impact to road users and to complete as safely and efficiently as possible.

These works will commence at the intersection of King William Street and Carrington Street and progress towards South Terrace.

Speed and lane restrictions will be in place in the vicinity of the works, however the road will remain open to the traffic in both directions at all times. A minimum 25km/h speed limit will be in place while the workers are on site.

Public transport services will not be affected.

For real time roadwork information download the AddInsight app or visit the Traffic SA website.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... eplacement

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4129 Post by gnrc_louis » Thu May 02, 2019 1:46 pm

https://indaily.com.au/news/2019/05/02/ ... transport/

"In five year’s time, it’s quite likely that trams won’t be the best option – that there’s emerging technology in trackless, autonomous, electric, and every variation thereof."

Funny then that other States and Territories continue to invest heavily into light rail. I guess Knoll knows mores than everyone else.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4130 Post by Llessur2002 » Thu May 02, 2019 2:00 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:46 pm
https://indaily.com.au/news/2019/05/02/ ... transport/

"In five year’s time, it’s quite likely that trams won’t be the best option – that there’s emerging technology in trackless, autonomous, electric, and every variation thereof."

Funny then that other States and Territories continue to invest heavily into light rail. I guess Knoll knows mores than everyone else.
I was just reading this too. Based on that comment it doesn't sound too likely that we'll see any extensions at all to the tram network at least within this term of office :(

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4131 Post by PeFe » Thu May 02, 2019 4:06 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:46 pm
"In five year’s time, it’s quite likely that trams won’t be the best option – that there’s emerging technology in trackless, autonomous, electric, and every variation thereof."
I have heard kind of dribble before......its usually right-wing US politicians opposing any sort of public transport spending in their cities/states.

Autonomous, electric cars may be filling our streets to the brim in the future...just like today so instead of being stuck in a traffic jam with petrol cars, you will be stuck in a traffic jam with electric cars...

Trackless trams.....buses dressed up as trams.....proprietary technology.......you would have to be a brave (or incredibly stupid)
politician to go down that pathway at this point...

And Knoll should really stop saying "Adelaide public transport is the worst in the world!" He obviously has never been to the United States...

Lots of cities (that are bigger than Adelaide) have far worse public transport for example....Dallas-Fort Worth, 6 million, has NO public transport to some outer suburbs (Because the local government refuses to contribute any funds to the metropolitan transit authority) and so they receive no bus services (let alone anything as exotic as light or heavy rail) and the list goes on, same for Richmond Virginia, Tampa, Indianaoplis and I believe there are probably 20 more.

How does this come about...probably because these are wealthy areas where everyone (and I do mean everyone has a car) and local taxes would go up if you want public transport.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4132 Post by Nort » Thu May 02, 2019 4:32 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:46 pm
https://indaily.com.au/news/2019/05/02/ ... transport/

"In five year’s time, it’s quite likely that trams won’t be the best option – that there’s emerging technology in trackless, autonomous, electric, and every variation thereof."

Funny then that other States and Territories continue to invest heavily into light rail. I guess Knoll knows mores than everyone else.
Based on this we can assume he's going to oppose any road development in the rest of this term right? :lol:

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4133 Post by Brucetiki » Thu May 02, 2019 4:53 pm

PeFe wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:06 pm
gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:46 pm
"In five year’s time, it’s quite likely that trams won’t be the best option – that there’s emerging technology in trackless, autonomous, electric, and every variation thereof."
I have heard kind of dribble before......its usually right-wing US politicians opposing any sort of public transport spending in their cities/states.

Autonomous, electric cars may be filling our streets to the brim in the future...just like today so instead of being stuck in a traffic jam with petrol cars, you will be stuck in a traffic jam with electric cars...

Trackless trams.....buses dressed up as trams.....proprietary technology.......you would have to be a brave (or incredibly stupid)
politician to go down that pathway at this point...

And Knoll should really stop saying "Adelaide public transport is the worst in the world!" He obviously has never been to the United States...

Lots of cities (that are bigger than Adelaide) have far worse public transport for example....Dallas-Fort Worth, 6 million, has NO public transport to some outer suburbs (Because the local government refuses to contribute any funds to the metropolitan transit authority) and so they receive no bus services (let alone anything as exotic as light or heavy rail) and the list goes on, same for Richmond Virginia, Tampa, Indianaoplis and I believe there are probably 20 more.

How does this come about...probably because these are wealthy areas where everyone (and I do mean everyone has a car) and local taxes would go up if you want public transport.
The interview showed just how out of his depth Knoll is as minister. He really has no clue on how public transport works.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4134 Post by TorrensSA » Thu May 02, 2019 6:02 pm

Imagine when we have driverless electric cars, everyone will want to use one, so all the people using the train, bus, tram etc will be in one, there will be children heading places alone in them, there will be at least double the vehicles on the road. You probably wont own the vehicle just order one on an app, so Adelaide now has 1 million driverless cars on the road, it would be chaos. Trams move lots of people at once, like trains and are seperate from cars, Knoll doesn't see that a trackless tram or what not will just add to the chaos of everyone chocking the roads in electric driverless cars.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4135 Post by NTRabbit » Thu May 02, 2019 9:25 pm

Trackless trams and agile on-demand buses, Knoll does know the private car that took him to Christian Brothers College every morning wasn't public transport, right?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4136 Post by claybro » Fri May 03, 2019 8:58 am

TorrensSA wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:02 pm
Imagine when we have driverless electric cars, everyone will want to use one, so all the people using the train, bus, tram etc will be in one, there will be children heading places alone in them, there will be at least double the vehicles on the road. You probably wont own the vehicle just order one on an app, so Adelaide now has 1 million driverless cars on the road, it would be chaos. Trams move lots of people at once, like trains and are seperate from cars, Knoll doesn't see that a trackless tram or what not will just add to the chaos of everyone chocking the roads in electric driverless cars.
You're all talking like Knoll has come up with some haibrain scheme of flying cars. Most transport planners and academics are thinking along these lines. And as for kids buzzing around in driverless cars, and 1 million cars on the road? Most thinking (not just our Mr Knoll) is that these cars and small driverless buses will be for short trips, and the cost of such trips will mean that they will need to be planned sparingly. It will not be cheap, but the "green police" are going after transport once they have finished with electricity.. so in the name of climate change most will not afford private vehicles or endless trips in driverless cars. Public mass transport will be more in use than ever.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4137 Post by shiftaling » Fri May 03, 2019 9:21 am

Certainly no expert on this but if all vehicles are eventually driverless, won't they be far more efficient in the way that they move on the roads? Cars will be able to travel in automated convoys, merge seamlessly at high speeds etc. All cars might be akin to taxis and summoned as required, rather than individuals owning one large car or four wheel drive for all uses - so if a single passenger requires transport then the vehicle might be much smaller than we currently have.

Granted this will only work once all cars are driverless and it's an integrated system - I suppose either centrally controlled or as a distributed intelligent "swarm".

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4138 Post by SBD » Fri May 03, 2019 10:00 am

shiftaling wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:21 am
Certainly no expert on this but if all vehicles are eventually driverless, won't they be far more efficient in the way that they move on the roads? Cars will be able to travel in automated convoys, merge seamlessly at high speeds etc. All cars might be akin to taxis and summoned as required, rather than individuals owning one large car or four wheel drive for all uses - so if a single passenger requires transport then the vehicle might be much smaller than we currently have.

Granted this will only work once all cars are driverless and it's an integrated system - I suppose either centrally controlled or as a distributed intelligent "swarm".
The stream of nose-to-tail, energy efficient, autonomous cars whizzing past in the fast lane will help to encourage the drivers in other lanes to upgrade as soon as they can.

I'm pretty sure the critical mass would be well short of 100%, but it will need some law changes that have not been thought of (or at least publicly discussed) yet, and may not be popular. We keep hearing that autonomous vehicles will be "safe" because the driver doesn't get distracted etc. so will be able to cruise down our suburban streets without hitting the kid that is chasing a ball out from behind a tree. We as human drivers assume that there won't be pedestrians crossing our main roads, and if there are, we assume they know they are in a dangerous environment, so we as pedestrians are careful not to try to cross a main road with traffic on it.

Are we prepared to let the autonomous cars "assume" that a pedestrian near the edge of a main road is not going to step out in front, or will we require the car to slow down and veer away enough that the pedestrian cannot "accidentally" step into its path? Alternatively, are we prepared to make "playing chicken" illegal with high enough penalties to prevent pedestrians from doing that without very good reasons (remembering that they could be stepping in front of a convoy of hundreds of chained vehicles). Can the person who stepped into (or even near to) the path of the convoy be convicted of delaying a commute based on the evidence of the cameras and other sensors in the lead car?

The convoy of vehicles at 100km/h might require 100m to come to a complete stop. That means that any pedestrian who could be in front of the stream in 100m would require the stream to reduce speed in case the pedestrian will have moved into that space by the time it gets there, so any pedestrian within 20m of the edge of the lane needs to be compensated for. Sounds like a great game for bored teenagers during evening commutes.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4139 Post by shiftaling » Fri May 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Interesting points SBD - I imagine speed limits will still be varied for different types of road conditions based on those likelihoods but there are still a lot of efficiencies that intelligent traffic could make. So even though we won't have 100km/h traffic on every suburban street, we might have a situation for example where the middle lanes of a multi-lane road (currently signposted at 60km/h) are at a far higher speed than the outer lanes, perhaps even incorporating barriers and such. Without the need for the ability to merge at any point on the whim of a human driver, you might have separated inner lanes that have barriers with gaps that constitute merging points for cars entering from the slower outer lanes. Every main road could be a kind of combination of a freeway and an arterial.

Also, a smart convoy at 60km/h or even slower would still be much more efficient and safer than the current situation at those speeds.

Apologies for the off topic post - I won't post any more on that in this thread.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4140 Post by Pistol » Fri May 03, 2019 11:08 pm

I like driving and I like trams.
I must be a dinosaur :cry:
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken

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