News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Spotto
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4276 Post by Spotto » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:27 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:59 pm
Good tram related article from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... SApp_Other
“London has resolved its traffic problem by replacing trams with buses, and Sydney should do the same.” (1963)

Difference is, back then and now, take away London’s trams and you still had a rail network and also a convenient metro system that has walkable access to most of the city. Take away Sydney’s trams you’re left only with the train network. Not really a fair comparison.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4277 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:19 pm

As much as I like rail for sentimental value, the fact is that buses are more flexible and solve any complaints of congestion. The best solution in Adelaide is Bus Rapid Transit. I don't understand why it's rarely suggested. All the main roads should have BRT in the middle of the road, at least for the last few km into the city.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4278 Post by rubberman » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:44 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:19 pm
As much as I like rail for sentimental value, the fact is that buses are more flexible and solve any complaints of congestion. The best solution in Adelaide is Bus Rapid Transit. I don't understand why it's rarely suggested. All the main roads should have BRT in the middle of the road, at least for the last few km into the city.
And yet when trams replaced the beeline bus, what happened?

Next, take a look at Grenfell/Currie at peak hour. Those buses weaving in and out cause more congestion than they solve. Done well, trams can bust congestion.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4279 Post by Nort » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:53 am

It's a shame that Sydney had such a poor experience with it that it's political poison, because a monorail would actually be a great solution for a city loop.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4280 Post by Llessur2002 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:51 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:19 pm
As much as I like rail for sentimental value, the fact is that buses are more flexible and solve any complaints of congestion. The best solution in Adelaide is Bus Rapid Transit. I don't understand why it's rarely suggested. All the main roads should have BRT in the middle of the road, at least for the last few km into the city.
But, anything short of a full (i.e. not just the end part) BRT system will never be as appealing or as popular as a tram or train. If you're going to end up driving the same route to work, getting stopped at the same intersections, sitting in the same traffic queues as well as making frequent stops to pick up and drop off passengers then I can see why people would choose their own car instead.

Put in a full BRT system with dedicated corridors on every major road, priority at intersections and proper tram-style stops then I'm with you. Preferably using electric buses so that the noise and vibration aren't overbearing at higher speeds. Otherwise it will always be the second-class public transport solution.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4281 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 pm

Blast from the past, just for a laugh.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4282 Post by Westside » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:31 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:19 pm
As much as I like rail for sentimental value, the fact is that buses are more flexible and solve any complaints of congestion. The best solution in Adelaide is Bus Rapid Transit. I don't understand why it's rarely suggested. All the main roads should have BRT in the middle of the road, at least for the last few km into the city.
It's not the surface under a vehicle (ie rail vs concrete/bitumen) that makes a difference. Any rapid transit system is doomed to fail without 1 simple thing: separation from vehicle traffic. Do that and it won't matter if you're riding a tram or a bus. The downfalls (over-simplification here) to rail are the vehicles are constrained to the line and cannot deviate at either end, but they generally give a much smoother ride. The downfalls for buses are this usually leads to shortcuts where governments think a bit of red paint will suffice as a right of way and where space gets tight and a right-of-way is too expensive, they just dump the buses back into traffic. Then there are the economic factors and all that, but that's beside the point I'm trying to make. Regardless of the mode, there needs to be a serious infrastructure investment either way to unclog some of these corridors.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4283 Post by PeFe » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:35 pm

Dedicated right-of-way rail (whether it be light or heavy rail) with an unimpeded pathway (ie a clear track) will always be a winner over buses.
Any form of transport that has to "share a space with cars" is behind the eight ball from the start...

BRT has its uses....obviously cheaper than rail but less appealing (definitely in the first world)

The O-Bahn concept has NOT taken off around the world because light rail can do the same thing....but only better, with much larger passenger capacity in trams than buses...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... dapest.JPG

Budapest tram......capacity 250 people.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4284 Post by Westside » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:37 pm

And getting thrown around in the back of an articulated bus doing 80km/hr around a bend...

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4285 Post by baytram366 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:00 am

The new City South platforms are finally finished as of this morning

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4286 Post by Patrick_27 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:13 pm

baytram366 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:00 am
The new City South platforms are finally finished as of this morning
Not in Adelaide at the moment, would anyone be about to do a run-by photo grab of the upgraded track and stations? :D

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4287 Post by Ser Noit of Loit » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:55 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:13 pm
baytram366 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:00 am
The new City South platforms are finally finished as of this morning
Not in Adelaide at the moment, would anyone be about to do a run-by photo grab of the upgraded track and stations? :D
Consider it done. This is from Tuesday, but they're still basically completed.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4288 Post by rhino » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:26 am

Are trams running today, on the southern end of KWS?
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4289 Post by Spotto » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:57 am

rhino wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:26 am
Are trams running today, on the southern end of KWS?
Trams resumed running in town on Wednesday 24 July, yesterday is when City South reopened.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4290 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:38 pm

There isn't anything trams can do that BRT can't do. BRT has the advantage of flexibility, especially when it comes to extending bus routes beyond the BRT network.
Nort wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:53 am
It's a shame that Sydney had such a poor experience with it that it's political poison, because a monorail would actually be a great solution for a city loop.
It was a one way loop. What if you want to go the other way? It's an obvious question that doomed if to failure.

Of course, that says nothing of monorail as a technology.
Llessur2002 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:51 am

But, anything short of a full (i.e. not just the end part) BRT system will never be as appealing or as popular as a tram or train. If you're going to end up driving the same route to work, getting stopped at the same intersections, sitting in the same traffic queues as well as making frequent stops to pick up and drop off passengers then I can see why people would choose their own car instead.

Put in a full BRT system with dedicated corridors on every major road, priority at intersections and proper tram-style stops then I'm with you. Preferably using electric buses so that the noise and vibration aren't overbearing at higher speeds. Otherwise it will always be the second-class public transport solution.
BRT isn't necessary in the outer suburbs because there is little congestion out there. BRT is only needed for the last few kilometres into the city where it can blast past the cars stuck in congestion. Those last few kilometres are crucial and it shouldn't be a half baked BRT for those last few kilometres (eg curbside bus lanes.)

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