Toll Roads in Adelaide

[jimmy_2486]

sorry in the first statement, i meant that it was not adequate, since there are not many services to the south

The south has way more rail services than the north does.

We also have more go zones im pretty sure as well.

[bmw boy]

all it needs is a rail linkage to Flinders... this would also have a significant impact on those who currently use buses to get to and from there

[Düsseldorfer]

If i think of a typical South Australian, then no one will use a toll road in Adelaide, they will all use the back streets. But if we were going to have a toll road the toll should only be for vehicles over a certain weight eg. Busses, Trucks, Semi-trailers. Just like the German Autobahn system, the roads are free for all passenger cars, there are no toll gates only e-tag scanners every 2km to scan all the trucks, And in a lot of parts there's no speed limit for the passenger cars, trucks and heavy stuff can not exceed 100kph or 120kph or the cops pull them over, but Australian drivers have terrible driving skills so its probably best if they keep the speed restrictions. I think that system is the most logical as the heavy vehicles are the ones that damage the roads over time thus they should pay extra to use it. But heres another thing, don't Australian taxes cover infrastructure like roads any more? If you do end up paying a toll then you are just paying a toll on top of a tax, wtf...

[Paulns]

From my experiences of living in Sydney, the only good thing about toll roads is that motorways get built fast.

Thats why Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane have so many of them. For example the M7 motorway in Western Sydney cost Aus$1 Billion dollars to build..
How else do you think they built this road? It certaintly wasn't all the NSW and Fed Government.
Voters want better roads now, Gov. needs money to fund them and big business (such as Macquarie Bank) wants to make money.. It should be noted that this entire motorway runs though absolute Labor heartland, both Federal and State. Sydney's population is also more than 4 times the size of Adelaide.

This system can work, but you have to remember that the tolls are usually not fixed. I think they rise with the CPI??
When I first got to Sydney 6 years ago the M2 motorway was around $3.40 now I believe its $4.80 and thats just one way for a standard vehicle without a trailer and definently not a truck, which is more.

Do we really need toll roads in Adelaide?
Although the question we should ask ourselves is, How urgently do we want transport infrustructure to be built/fixed in Adelaide?? It all comes at cost.

Also just a note, the M7 motorway is a Sanctional motorway which is fully autimated (no toll boths) with E-tag electronic monitors as you enter and exit the motorway where you do, only pay for what you drive on and not the entire motorway....

[AtD]

If i think of a typical South Australian, then no one will use a toll road in Adelaide, they will all use the back streets. But if we were going to have a toll road the toll should only be for vehicles over a certain weight eg. Busses, Trucks, Semi-trailers. Just like the German Autobahn system, the roads are free for all passenger cars, there are no toll gates only e-tag scanners every 2km to scan all the trucks, And in a lot of parts there's no speed limit for the passenger cars, trucks and heavy stuff can not exceed 100kph or 120kph or the cops pull them over, but Australian drivers have terrible driving skills so its probably best if they keep the speed restrictions. I think that system is the most logical as the heavy vehicles are the ones that damage the roads over time thus they should pay extra to use it. But heres another thing, don't Australian taxes cover infrastructure like roads any more? If you do end up paying a toll then you are just paying a toll on top of a tax, wtf...

I disagree with that sort of thinking. Commercial vehicles shouldn't be discouraged while private vehicles rewarded. Freight powers the economy and generally has less alternative transport options. Private vehicles should be encouraged to take more efficient and sustainable public transport where available. Otherwise we're just subsidising people's choice to live in sprawling suburbs with no environmental sustainability, and punishing commerce at the same time.

[Ho Really]

If i think of a typical South Australian, then no one will use a toll road in Adelaide, they will all use the back streets. But if we were going to have a toll road the toll should only be for vehicles over a certain weight eg. Busses, Trucks, Semi-trailers. Just like the German Autobahn system, the roads are free for all passenger cars, there are no toll gates only e-tag scanners every 2km to scan all the trucks, And in a lot of parts there's no speed limit for the passenger cars, trucks and heavy stuff can not exceed 100kph or 120kph or the cops pull them over, but Australian drivers have terrible driving skills so its probably best if they keep the speed restrictions. I think that system is the most logical as the heavy vehicles are the ones that damage the roads over time thus they should pay extra to use it. But heres another thing, don't Australian taxes cover infrastructure like roads any more? If you do end up paying a toll then you are just paying a toll on top of a tax, wtf...

I disagree with that sort of thinking. Commercial vehicles shouldn't be discouraged while private vehicles rewarded. Freight powers the economy and generally has less alternative transport options. Private vehicles should be encouraged to take more efficient and sustainable public transport where available. Otherwise we're just subsidising people's choice to live in sprawling suburbs with no environmental sustainability, and punishing commerce at the same time.

I agree AtD. The charges imposed on commerce will be passed onto us eventually. Those driving cars are the ones who should be looking for alternative means of transport as said. Give us a better PT system and there won't be a need for tolls.

Cheers

[rhino]

Good points AtD & Ho, I agree too.

[Dave_The_Planner]

I'd gladly use toll roads if they were built.

We are already paying for the costs of freight to stores and to our homes, and some of these costs are probably high due to the latency during travel between destinations. If companies can save time during transit, at a small cost, it is unlikely we'll see the costs of our goods going up by much if at all.

Like the rest of the world, once people realise how much time they can save by using a direct and fast toll-road, they'll begin to use it and obviously pay for that time saving.

[ozisnowman]

People using toll roads in Adelaide would only work if the price
was respectable say $1-2 each way that way if you use that toll road
to get to work and back you would pay $2-4 a day that would equate
to $400-800 a year based on work days only.

Any higher than $2 dollars each way or having multiple pay points
would ensure that such a road would be avoided like the plague and
our already clogged arterial system would burst at the seems.

People in Adelaide hate paying for things they take for granted
so toll roads even though i think are good may not yet be economically
viable.

[jimmy_2486]

Well I personally think they should only toll cross city.

Say for example between anzac hwy and port road. Mostly freighters and couriers would use that and would be glad to pay the toll if it saves them heaps of time.

I personally like the RAA video of putting a tunnel between port and anzac that could serve as a cross city bypass for freight which could be tolled so that private firms spend the big bucks on it. I mean if you don't want to use it....u can go on the old south road.

[AG]

RAA calls for toll lanes to ease traffic congestion
MICHAEL OWEN, POLITICAL REPORTER
February 21, 2008 12:10am
THE state's peak motoring body has called for dedicated toll lanes to be considered for existing roads to ease traffic congestion.

The RAA yesterday joined the nation's leading infrastructure industry group and the freight industry in proposing options for a user-pays system of road charges to improve efficiency on the north-south corridor.
RAA public affairs general manager Sharon Hanlon singled out South Rd as having potential for a trial, which would reduce congestion on Goodwood and Marion roads.

Motorists should be given the choice of paying to use a toll lane or using an existing lane free, she said.

Ms Hanlon said there had been a lot of feedback from RAA members who were very supportive of the toll lane idea because of the amount of time it would cut off their journeys.

"We've always said we think motorists more than pay their way . . . however, there are always caveats on that," Ms Hanlon said.

"One of the things that concerns us greatly at this point in time is, for example, upgrading South Rd all the way from Wingfield through to the Southern Expressway.

"If that is going to take another 15 years before that comes to fruition, we think it (toll lanes) is something that should be tested out there among the consumers.

"If there's that freedom of choice about using toll lanes, we're sure that on occasions motorists may choose on four days a week to come down Marion or Goodwood Rd into the city still and put up with the congestion, but there may be that one day that they're running late and they've got to be at a certain meeting and will pay the $5 toll or whatever it is."

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia executive director Garry Bowditch yesterday said it was important to separate freight and passenger transport to "increase safety, reduce noise on suburban streets and reduce congestion".

"The Government could attract much-needed new investment in Adelaide's transport options through a mix of private finance and public finance," he said.

"A full cost-benefit analysis, however, would be required to determine if a freight-only toll road would be a viable option.

"Heavy vehicles would probably pay around $5 to $10 per trip to use the road, depending on the length of the trip, in return for a dramatic reduction in travel time."

The NSW Government is considering a proposal for a freight-only tunnel connecting to Port Botany, he said.

The calls follow a speech by state Transport Minister Patrick Conlon to a business luncheon on Tuesday, where he outlined conditions under which tolls could be charged on South Australian roads.

As reported by The Advertiser yesterday, Mr Conlon said "the only opportunity for toll roads would be a new road with high volumes (of traffic)".

He said 30 to 40 per cent of traffic on South Rd consisted of B-double trucks and with the volume of freight on Adelaide roads forecast to double in 10 years, the "most likely" toll road in the future would be for freight.

The Rann Cabinet has a no-toll policy, but that only applies for this term of government and would expire if Labor were to win the 2010 election.

SA Freight Council chairman Vincent Tremaine welcomed the calls and warned that "South Rd will be a disaster in the next 10 years" unless action was taken to improve freight and commuter traffic flow.

Mr Conlon last night declined to be interviewed.

He told ABC radio yesterday morning the Government had a 10-year program of roadworks that did not include plans for tolls.

"We're talking about massive economic growth coming in South Australia over the next decade or two and that will involve a growth in freight and there's going to be someone asked to build a freight (toll) road some day," he said on radio.

State Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith last night said the Liberals "do not see a need for toll roads".

Ms Hanlon said SA did not have enough traffic volume to "maximise returns" for a freight-only toll road.

The RAA instead suggested dedicated toll lanes on existing roads.

"You would have two or three lanes in each direction with a dedicated lane for freight – that would be far more workable," Ms Hanlon said yesterday.

"Then that lane ultimately becomes a toll lane.

"The intelligent transport system is smart enough these days that if you've got gantries going over the top of a road, it can pick up your registration number or register something fixed to your windscreen and charge a toll that way."

[Edgar]

It takes a lot in terms of road quality and purpose to implement toll system.

In Asian countries, the government sub-contract the development of these toll highways to private company, who then, build, run, and maintain these highways. In return, they are the ones who collect toll moneys from motorist who uses their highway system. Is it good? Yes, because private company are maintaining these highways to ensure it is in good condition and everything runs smoothly. After a period of time of break-even, it will closes its tolls and the highways are open to motorist for free.

It is a win-win situation, not sure about the toll highway system in Australia though.

[AG]

It takes a lot in terms of road quality and purpose to implement toll system.

In Asian countries, the government sub-contract the development of these toll highways to private company, who then, build, run, and maintain these highways. In return, they are the ones who collect toll moneys from motorist who uses their highway system. Is it good? Yes, because private company are maintaining these highways to ensure it is in good condition and everything runs smoothly. After a period of time of break-even, it will closes its tolls and the highways are open to motorist for free.

It is a win-win situation, not sure about the toll highway system in Australia though.

There are already tolled freeways that exist in Australia (M7 Westlink in Sydney and the soon to be opened Eastlink in Melbourne) which are operated in the same way as you describe above that work very well, being delivered under Public-Private Partnerships. The one big difference though is that the new piece of infrastructure is operated and maintained by the consortium for a fixed period of time (usually as least 30 years) before ownership is passed back to the government.

[monotonehell]

Adding a toll lane to an existing road without addressing congestion will not help anybody. The same volume of traffic (and an increasing volume as time goes on) will be simply split into those who don't wish to pay and those who do, going down the same corridor. A toll road needs to have a marked advantage over the existing road in order for it to be worth paying a toll.

I fail to see how a toll lane could function down South road with people turning left and right at all intersections.

[Brando]

<snip>
Motorists should be given the choice of paying to use a toll lane or using an existing lane free, she said.

The key sentence maybe. I would personally pay to use toll roads, galdly. Time these days is such a rarity. It has always been the argument that why should someone have to pay, well maybe this could be the answer. As monotonehell mentioned, many things will need to be taken into account and policed.