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[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:50 pm
by SBD
What would be the scope to create a western concourse to the railway station, with the ability to walk west along the platforms and come out somewhere on or near the Montefiere Road bridge?

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:02 am
by [Shuz]
Zero.

They missed a real opportunity there when they did the Convention Centre expansion. The supports get in the way of the platforms and tracks. Only option is underground now.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 pm
by claybro
Also a missed opportunity as far as AO is concerned. if lines to the Riverland, SE and Whyalla etc could be re-introduced, would surely be a great way of getting thousands of country fans straight to their AFL games, instead of by the many buses that are currently used. Also country patients and family for the RAH would be surely more inclined to catch a train than drive or fly if services were relatively fast and comfortable.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:53 pm
by Patrick_27
claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 pm
Also a missed opportunity as far as AO is concerned. if lines to the Riverland, SE and Whyalla etc could be re-introduced, would surely be a great way of getting thousands of country fans straight to their AFL games, instead of by the many buses that are currently used. Also country patients and family for the RAH would be surely more inclined to catch a train than drive or fly if services were relatively fast and comfortable.
I suspect with the introduction of a city underground loop, there will be a staggered process of electrifying the Belair line so this can be included in underground rail and then putting all metropolitan lines unground (including below the Adelaide Railway Station and then we'll see the Adelaide Railway Station freed up for intrastate and interstate rail (again). This might sound like a pipe dream but consider the fact that Adelaide population will sure enough grow and the need for an underground metro loop will arise as will connecting region SA with Adelaide via rail.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:51 pm
by claybro
At the very least, there appears to be plenty of space on the river side of the existing tracks North of the hospital to construct at least 4 tracks and 2 platforms. This could have direct pedestrian access to Morphett Street Bridge for North terrace or over the river to the oval. The current site a Keswick (Parklands) is a waste of space. There would be the usual arguments about maintenance, and turnarounds...blah blah blah., but this is all able to be worked around. After all, there are other sites around the world, where many more trains, in longer configurations with many more people are serviced by much tighter stations, some even underground.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:18 pm
by Goodsy
claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:51 pm
At the very least, there appears to be plenty of space on the river side of the existing tracks North of the hospital to construct at least 4 tracks and 2 platforms. This could have direct pedestrian access to Morphett Street Bridge for North terrace or over the river to the oval. The current site a Keswick (Parklands) is a waste of space. There would be the usual arguments about maintenance, and turnarounds...blah blah blah., but this is all able to be worked around. After all, there are other sites around the world, where many more trains, in longer configurations with many more people are serviced by much tighter stations, some even underground.
for example, London Waterloo would fit in the area bounded by Montefiore Rd, the River, the nRAH and the Gaol

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:20 pm
by skyliner
Mt two cents worth on the matter of bringing in the interstate trains to Adelaide central - no - one has mentioned dual gauge. One track of the 9 current tracks could be extended as dual gauge. It will be able to be used by any metro trains. (only blocked off while an interstate is standing there).

Back in the steam days they had the problem of too many coaches in the Overland to fit at the longest platform. So instead of making a platform of massive length, they split the train in half. (the platform they usually used terminated at Morphett Bridge). The first, DIVISION ONE, would occupy the allocated platform and leave at say 7.00 PM. Then DIVISION TWO would be shunted in and leave at say 7.30PM (as a separate train, but still the overland). At one stage they had three divisions. This removed the need of a platform 70O - 800 metres long.) Do the same now with the interstates, dual gauge. If we really want the interstate passenger trains here expenses would involve more locos, drivers, and dual gauging of one track. No tunnels, new lines, signals, no massive infrastructure . If they could do it then (albeit with 13 tracks), we should be able now, especially as the station does not have to accommodate regional passenger trains anymore.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CBD SKYLINE

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:27 pm
by [Shuz]
Adelaide Railway Station would be ideal for interstate and regional trains (If we had a network like Victoria's). Southern Cross platforms 1-8 are not too dissimilar in length to the ARS platforms.

I'd like to see the metro services go underground, at new Platforms 10-13 (Seaford-Gawler through 10 & 11 and Belair-Outer Harbour through 12 & 13 and the interstate and regional network operating from at Platforms 1-9.

Platforms 1, 2 and 3 would be best suited to the interstate, and Platforms 4-9 for each of the destinations like Mount Gambier, Murray Bridge, Victor Harbor, Port Augusta, Copper Coast and Barossa services.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:24 am
by rev
Instead of trying to cram interstate trains into space that doesn't exist at the ARS, why not build a new railway station in the southern parklands on South Tce near the Morphett st intersection? That area isn't used for sports or anything of importance, just wasted space. Doesn't even get watered by the council.
A tunnel from the line that's under the Anzac Hwy/Greenhill road bridge into the parkland's parallel to Greenhill road, that turns north east towards the South Tce/Morphett St intersection would be straight enough to accommodate the length of the interstate trains.
The surface area of the station could feature retail/eateries, perhaps a hotel. Could even have part of the surface area grassed over with a park/amenities.
Through a tram line down that part of the city, the whole thing could spur some construction activity for resi/hotels for the south eastern corner of the city.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:04 am
by claybro
What you have described already exits at Keswick. Isolated area, far from existing hotels and transport connections. Dry and desolate.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 am
by rev
claybro wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:04 am
What you have described already exits at Keswick. Isolated area, far from existing hotels and transport connections. Dry and desolate.

What I have described is a purpose built train station with facilities on the edge of the CBD(just like the ARS is), and other PT connections to the rest of the CBD.
There's already an increase in development on that side anyway, this would potentially be a catalyst for more development that will really build up the south east corner of the CBD.

What exists at Keswick is far from what my idea describes, and is as embarrassing as the "cruise ship terminal" at Outer Harbor.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:41 am
by Bob
[Shuz] wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:27 pm
Adelaide Railway Station would be ideal for interstate and regional trains (If we had a network like Victoria's). Southern Cross platforms 1-8 are not too dissimilar in length to the ARS platforms.

I'd like to see the metro services go underground, at new Platforms 10-13 (Seaford-Gawler through 10 & 11 and Belair-Outer Harbour through 12 & 13 and the interstate and regional network operating from at Platforms 1-9.

Platforms 1, 2 and 3 would be best suited to the interstate, and Platforms 4-9 for each of the destinations like Mount Gambier, Murray Bridge, Victor Harbor, Port Augusta, Copper Coast and Barossa services.
If the Underground City Loop goes ahead there would only be a need for 6 new / reconfigured platforms (3 island platforms with track either side) to cater for Suburban trains best suited to the Southern half of Adelaide Station. The logistics could use the 3 island platforms as - an example - (Platforms 1&2 for Gawler to Seaford via loop, Platforms 3&4 for Belair to Outer Harbor via loop and Platforms 5&6 for Grange to Flinders via loop. As there would only be one dual track for the actual City Underground loop, this would allow for overtaking thru Adelaide station if required, even though all services would share the loop tracks.

This would free up space for Intrastate & Interstate services in Adelaide Station in the Northern half of Adelaide Station, not only for reconfigured platforms to suit those longer services, but also the additional space required for the logistics of handling those type of services.

Just a thought.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:31 pm
by Goodsy
rev wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 am
claybro wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:04 am
What you have described already exits at Keswick. Isolated area, far from existing hotels and transport connections. Dry and desolate.

What I have described is a purpose built train station with facilities on the edge of the CBD(just like the ARS is), and other PT connections to the rest of the CBD.
There's already an increase in development on that side anyway, this would potentially be a catalyst for more development that will really build up the south east corner of the CBD.

What exists at Keswick is far from what my idea describes, and is as embarrassing as the "cruise ship terminal" at Outer Harbor.
Maybe a larger station at the southern portal of the eventual city loop. But I think most interstate and regional trains should terminate as close to Adelaide Oval as possible

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:11 pm
by Brucetiki
skyliner wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:20 pm
Mt two cents worth on the matter of bringing in the interstate trains to Adelaide central - no - one has mentioned dual gauge. One track of the 9 current tracks could be extended as dual gauge. It will be able to be used by any metro trains. (only blocked off while an interstate is standing there).

Back in the steam days they had the problem of too many coaches in the Overland to fit at the longest platform. So instead of making a platform of massive length, they split the train in half. (the platform they usually used terminated at Morphett Bridge). The first, DIVISION ONE, would occupy the allocated platform and leave at say 7.00 PM. Then DIVISION TWO would be shunted in and leave at say 7.30PM (as a separate train, but still the overland). At one stage they had three divisions. This removed the need of a platform 70O - 800 metres long.) Do the same now with the interstates, dual gauge. If we really want the interstate passenger trains here expenses would involve more locos, drivers, and dual gauging of one track. No tunnels, new lines, signals, no massive infrastructure . If they could do it then (albeit with 13 tracks), we should be able now, especially as the station does not have to accommodate regional passenger trains anymore.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CBD SKYLINE
IP somewhat does this at Sydney Central too, albeit they just split the train across two platforms. Sydney Central also has 25 platforms (27 if you include the ghost platforms), so they have the capacity to do this though.

[VIS] Re: interstate passenger trains back to the Adel Railway Station

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:19 pm
by Westside
rev wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 am
claybro wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:04 am
What you have described already exits at Keswick. Isolated area, far from existing hotels and transport connections. Dry and desolate.

What I have described is a purpose built train station with facilities on the edge of the CBD(just like the ARS is), and other PT connections to the rest of the CBD.
There's already an increase in development on that side anyway, this would potentially be a catalyst for more development that will really build up the south east corner of the CBD.

What exists at Keswick is far from what my idea describes, and is as embarrassing as the "cruise ship terminal" at Outer Harbor.
Rev, I think you are mistaking the suburb of Adelaide from the actual CBD. Adelaide's actual Central Business District does not encompass everything between North, South, West and East terraces, but a much smaller almost L shape around King William St down no further than Vic Sq, and east at around Grenfell/Pirie to Pultney. (You can see this in the different planning areas from the Adelaide city council, but I can't be bothered referencing it now unless someone really wants me to find it). So Claybo is right that a new station on South Tce would be just as inconvenient as the current Keswick station apart from a few facilities upgrades.