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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:41 pm
by The Scooter Guy
PeFe wrote:If this proposal comes to fruition, then the current Port Adelaide station should be renamed Commercial Road (as it used to be called) and the new station should be called "Port Adelaide"
Just for clarity (and make it easier for tourists and commuters)
More like "Port Adelaide Central" if you ask me.

This means that the rolling stock right next to Jacketts (next to Barlow St) would have to be temporarily sorted (including the truck with 515's broad gauge bogies and loco 517)
Is there still a posibility that the Red Hen train or the 2000 class train or Bluebird Kestrel could run from here to the ARS & back?

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:52 pm
by PeFe
Kasey771 wrote:
PeFe wrote:Hopefully this new station is such a hit ( and coming at a time when the Port appears to be taking off) that the light rail idea will be abandonned.

Also thinking about operating practicalities....how about this this
1)Turn the Grange line into a spur only line, commuters would always change at Woodville. This has been done in the past as a temporary measure and seemed to work quite well.
2) City - Port Adelaide all stops train
3) City - Woodville express then all stops to Outer Harbor

Electrify the Port Adelaide/Outer Harbor line, leaving diesel trains to service Grange, before making a final decision on the status of the Grange line (I favour light rail including a new line to West Lakes, transferring to heavy rail at Woodville)
Is there room at Woodville to make it a proper train station with a mix of small retailers, a park n ride etc? Where all lines heading North west pass and passengers fan out to their individual spur lines from there. All trains City to Woodville... Get out and change for Grange, Outer Harbor and Port Adelaide.
Grange doesn't deserve anything better than a shuttle given its current patronage levels.
Woodville Station certainly is a good spot for a tod....the station needs to be grade separated and maybe rebuilt as a trench (with the potential of light rail above it)
Park and ride.....no thanks....can you imagine what the streets around the station would be like with 600 cars looking for a carpark at 8-20 to get the 8-30 train into the city!!!..and then at 5-30 all those cars leaving at once.
No Adelaide people should get used to using public transport all the way into the city....creating traffic chaos around park and rides just pushes congestion into the suburbs.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 pm
by Kasey771
PeFe wrote:
Kasey771 wrote:
PeFe wrote:Hopefully this new station is such a hit ( and coming at a time when the Port appears to be taking off) that the light rail idea will be abandonned.

Also thinking about operating practicalities....how about this this
1)Turn the Grange line into a spur only line, commuters would always change at Woodville. This has been done in the past as a temporary measure and seemed to work quite well.
2) City - Port Adelaide all stops train
3) City - Woodville express then all stops to Outer Harbor

Electrify the Port Adelaide/Outer Harbor line, leaving diesel trains to service Grange, before making a final decision on the status of the Grange line (I favour light rail including a new line to West Lakes, transferring to heavy rail at Woodville)
Is there room at Woodville to make it a proper train station with a mix of small retailers, a park n ride etc? Where all lines heading North west pass and passengers fan out to their individual spur lines from there. All trains City to Woodville... Get out and change for Grange, Outer Harbor and Port Adelaide.
Grange doesn't deserve anything better than a shuttle given its current patronage levels.
Woodville Station certainly is a good spot for a tod....the station needs to be grade separated and maybe rebuilt as a trench (with the potential of light rail above it)
Park and ride.....no thanks....can you imagine what the streets around the station would be like with 600 cars looking for a carpark at 8-20 to get the 8-30 train into the city!!!..and then at 5-30 all those cars leavingg at once.
No Adelaide people should get used to using public transport all the way into the city....creating traffic chaos around park and rides just pushes congestion into the suburbs.
I hear what you're saying, your Woodville Station sounds great, but heck we can't even get DPTI to build stations better than bus stop standard..we've got a tough job ahead to really upgrade our train network even after electrification is finished! There's stations that need closing to speed up the network. The stations that are left need upgrading to modern train station standard. Lots to do!

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:56 pm
by adelaide transport
Most of our rail stations are disgusting-makes us look like a 3rd world country! Not the way to go about enticing people to use Public Transport-in fact the opposite.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:51 pm
by Llessur2002
But removing stations will drive people from the areas in which stations are closed back into their cars. Wouldn't it be better to keep all stations but configure the network and timetable to run more express services?

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:07 pm
by PeFe
Llessur2002 wrote:But removing stations will drive people from the areas in which stations are closed back into their cars. Wouldn't it be better to keep all stations but configure the network and timetable to run more express services?
No there are too many stations spaced closely together.......who gets the express services and who doesn't?
Yes 90% of stations need an upgrade....but there needs to be some sort of master plan regarding the train lines.
For example half the stations north of Glanville could be removed on the Outer Harbor line, the remainder upgraded with the possibility of transit orientated development around them.
Commuters are always willing to walk a little further or catch a bus if there is a pay off in the end, like a very quick train service into the city. Nothing can beat heavy rail over long distances to move large numbers of people quickly and smoothly.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:36 pm
by SRW
Great idea! Woodville is a perfect candidate for a TOD-based interchange, with a big employment centre nearby in the soon-to-be-expanded QEH and associated institutes. Woodville Road could be rezoned to encourage higher density and 'main street' uses to link the station and medical precinct.

Like others, I hope the Port Dock spur line is the nail in the coffin for the Outer Harbor light rail fantasy. Developing Woodville would then make more reasonable the idea of a separate light rail network of Grange, West Lakes and Semaphore. This would interchange at Woodville for heavy rail connection to the city. An underground loop in the city would make the transfer even more reasonable from a passenger perspective (and basically the system I happily commuted through when living on the Nockebybanan in Stockholm).

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:57 am
by ChillyPhilly
SRW wrote:Great idea! Woodville is a perfect candidate for a TOD-based interchange, with a big employment centre nearby in the soon-to-be-expanded QEH and associated institutes. Woodville Road could be rezoned to encourage higher density and 'main street' uses to link the station and medical precinct.

Like others, I hope the Port Dock spur line is the nail in the coffin for the Outer Harbor light rail fantasy. Developing Woodville would then make more reasonable the idea of a separate light rail network of Grange, West Lakes and Semaphore. This would interchange at Woodville for heavy rail connection to the city. An underground loop in the city would make the transfer even more reasonable from a passenger perspective (and basically the system I happily commuted through when living on the Nockebybanan in Stockholm).
A TOD is proposed for Woodville, but has drawn significant contention from community members since it was first mooted. It seems it will still go ahead, however. The location is great but there are many issues that affect any proposed TOD there.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:32 am
by Norman
To be honest, a lot of the basic suburban train (train, not metro) stations around Europe are not much better than ours. Sure, we have a few shockers, but the more recent ones such as Marion, Ascot Park, Parafield, Hallet Cove are all not very far from those in comparatively sized European cities.

Are some of our stations rubbish? Sure. Are they third world? Not really. Are some spaced too close together? Yes, especially on the Seaford Line.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:29 am
by Kasey771
adelaide transport wrote:Most of our rail stations are disgusting-makes us look like a 3rd world country! Not the way to go about enticing people to use Public Transport-in fact the opposite.
That's unfair on third world countries. I caught a train in Mali once. Many of their stations were better than the Bus shelter on a raised platform rubbish we have here in too many spots.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:52 am
by Hooligan
Why Woodville Park is still open is beyond me.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:43 pm
by OlympusAnt
adelaide transport wrote:Most of our rail stations are disgusting-makes us look like a 3rd world country! Not the way to go about enticing people to use Public Transport-in fact the opposite.
Don't get me started on Torrens Park!!

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:57 pm
by Honey of a City
The restoration of the rail to near its original station in the heart of the Port is an admirable and long overdue initiative. The lack of imagination in the renders though is very disappointing. If tourism is a factor in this decision then no consideration has been given to the arrival or departure experience of visitors. The station needs to be extended to St Vincent St, even if it means modifying the court buildings, or an impressive plaza should be built around the station. And some kind of tribute to the magnificent fa├žade of the original station demolished years ago would go a long way towards repairing the bureaucratic vandalism of the past. Please don't continue with the contemporary tendency half do things (including expressways and Victoria Squares). That said, bring it on.

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:43 pm
by how good is he
I agree. Considering St Vincent St is 200m away the station should be there. Does the forum think this line will be electrified or replaced by light rail one day (and then continue down St Vincent Rd & Semaphore Rd to the beach)?

[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:24 pm
by PeFe
how good is he wrote: Does the forum think this line will be electrified or replaced by light rail one day (and then continue down St Vincent Rd & Semaphore Rd to the beach)?
I think electrification is definitely on the agenda......I suppose the only real stumbling block is money.......but on refelection light rail may be still a possibility. If the heavy rail line is not electrified the cost of turning the corridor into light rail becomes part of electrification......
It's as clear as.....mud