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[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:34 pm
by Bob
With proper design, only one house (#1 Devonport Tce - marked yellow in attached), might have to go, to make way for the Torrens Rd overpass and associated ramping + earthworks. Overall that would be a good result, if practical to do so. Other changes, such as Ovingham Station, shouldn't impact on other private land.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:34 pm
by mawsonguy
From DPTI:
Come along to an info session for the Ovingham Level Crossing Removal Project Planning Study to meet the project team, ask questions and provide feedback about the project.
Members of the project team will be available to talk to interested people at the following locations during October and November:
• Ovingham Railway Station on Tuesday 29 October from 7am to 10am, and 3:30pm to 5:30pm,
• Churchill Centre on Thursday 31 October from 2pm to 7pm, and Friday 1 November from 10am to 2pm, and
• Charles Cane Reserve Club House on Saturday 9 November from 10am to 1pm.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:23 pm
by TrebleSketch
Here are some photos from Tuesday, just had these two handed out and had a quick chat with the three PTP employees that were there and they spent the afternoon walking around and door knocking residents.

Had some info from them, ish. They are looking at a few options for this crossing and are at the early design phase, with the plan hopefully out by "very early next year". They won't touch the Hawker Street crossing as it's not within the scope of the project, but as I caught the train into town I saw that traffic had backed all the way into War Memorial Drive :(

After seeing this and hearing that the Park Terrace Bridge is too low for the new electric trains to run under. That a sunken crossing removal would be the way forward, increasing the project scope to North Adelaide Station, but that's just an idea :P
Though they will need to figure this out while also keeping the ARTC line up and running too :banana:
photo_2019-11-01_14-50-12.png
photo_2019-11-01_14-50-18.png
photo_2019-11-01_14-50-20.png

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:57 am
by Spotto
Minor thing but shouldn’t we rename this thread to Ovingham Crossing (in line with Oaklands Crossing) or Ovingham Level Crossing Removal (in line with project name)?

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:05 am
by Spotto
TrebleSketch wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:23 pm
They won't touch the Hawker Street crossing as it's not within the scope of the project, but as I caught the train into town I saw that traffic had backed all the way into War Memorial Drive :(

After seeing this and hearing that the Park Terrace Bridge is too low for the new electric trains to run under. That a sunken crossing removal would be the way forward, increasing the project scope to North Adelaide Station, but that's just an idea :P
“Not within the scope of the project” AKA “Too-Hard Basket”

Why the heck not? With a level crossing so close to the city centre it should absolutely be included. And it will be much cheaper and logistically easier to kill two birds with one stone than potentially revisit Hawker Street years down the line.

Though if Park Terrace gets altered into a rail underpass then Hawker Street will have to be included im the cutting as well.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:18 am
by TrebleSketch
Spotto wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:57 am
Minor thing but shouldn’t we rename this thread to Ovingham Crossing (in line with Oaklands Crossing) or Ovingham Level Crossing Removal (in line with project name)?
I think the 2nd option would be best, since it's used officially.
Spotto wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:05 am
TrebleSketch wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:23 pm
They won't touch the Hawker Street crossing as it's not within the scope of the project, but as I caught the train into town I saw that traffic had backed all the way into War Memorial Drive :(

After seeing this and hearing that the Park Terrace Bridge is too low for the new electric trains to run under. That a sunken crossing removal would be the way forward, increasing the project scope to North Adelaide Station, but that's just an idea :P
“Not within the scope of the project” AKA “Too-Hard Basket”

Why the heck not? With a level crossing so close to the city centre it should absolutely be included. And it will be much cheaper and logistically easier to kill two birds with one stone than potentially revisit Hawker Street years down the line.

Though if Park Terrace gets altered into a rail underpass then Hawker Street will have to be included im the cutting as well.
They absolutely should, already also sent them a comment on the project website too. Would recommend that you do so as well, I would imagine they are in the rush before Christmas break to maybe finalise some designs atm as they've alluded to when I spoke with them at Ovingham.

After giving this some thought, they would have to acquire homes along the side of the track to be able to build this in stages/properly too.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:34 am
by [Shuz]
Submitted my comment in support of the project scope being expanded to include Hawker Street as well to PTP Alliance.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 am
by Nathan
“Not within the scope of the project” is pretty much DPTIs mission statement.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:31 am
by rev
Spotto wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:05 am
TrebleSketch wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:23 pm
They won't touch the Hawker Street crossing as it's not within the scope of the project, but as I caught the train into town I saw that traffic had backed all the way into War Memorial Drive :(

After seeing this and hearing that the Park Terrace Bridge is too low for the new electric trains to run under. That a sunken crossing removal would be the way forward, increasing the project scope to North Adelaide Station, but that's just an idea :P
“Not within the scope of the project” AKA “Too-Hard Basket”

Why the heck not? With a level crossing so close to the city centre it should absolutely be included. And it will be much cheaper and logistically easier to kill two birds with one stone than potentially revisit Hawker Street years down the line.

Though if Park Terrace gets altered into a rail underpass then Hawker Street will have to be included im the cutting as well.
Park Terrace as in the bridge over that same line?

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:26 pm
by TrebleSketch
Nathan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 am
“Not within the scope of the project” is pretty much DPTIs mission statement.
That is true, haha. I think they do worry if they make the project too big, it would affect too many people = less community support. Infrastructure projects are generally toned down unless either the government really wants it done and/or they think they can ensure community support.
rev wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:31 am
Spotto wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:05 am
TrebleSketch wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:23 pm
They won't touch the Hawker Street crossing as it's not within the scope of the project, but as I caught the train into town I saw that traffic had backed all the way into War Memorial Drive :(

After seeing this and hearing that the Park Terrace Bridge is too low for the new electric trains to run under. That a sunken crossing removal would be the way forward, increasing the project scope to North Adelaide Station, but that's just an idea :P
“Not within the scope of the project” AKA “Too-Hard Basket”

Why the heck not? With a level crossing so close to the city centre it should absolutely be included. And it will be much cheaper and logistically easier to kill two birds with one stone than potentially revisit Hawker Street years down the line.

Though if Park Terrace gets altered into a rail underpass then Hawker Street will have to be included im the cutting as well.
Park Terrace as in the bridge over that same line?
Yeah, it is the bridge just north of North Adelaide Station (NAS). If it's going to be an underpass, then the scope will need to reach all the way to NAS. Though I do wonder if the underpasses will allow for double-stack freight, so this does depend on GlobeLink in the end. Hawker St/Park Tce may also need to be raised slightly to allow for that if GlobeLink doesn't happen. Since iirc, freight only needs to go to Islington?

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:06 pm
by Nathan
TrebleSketch wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:26 pm
Nathan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 am
“Not within the scope of the project” is pretty much DPTIs mission statement.
That is true, haha. I think they do worry if they make the project too big, it would affect too many people = less community support. Infrastructure projects are generally toned down unless either the government really wants it done and/or they think they can ensure community support.
I think it's less that, and more wearing blinkers. If there's something that can be done alongside a project that's mutually beneficial to themselves and other parties and save work and money in the long term, they'll still shove fingers in their ears and sing "la la la out of scope". I'm thinking more along things like shared paths along projects, or how it interacts with a neighbouring development.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:09 pm
by ChillyPhilly
Freight goes to Islington, but also straight through to Penfield and beyond, branching off at Salisbury.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:29 pm
by TrebleSketch
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:09 pm
Freight goes to Islington, but also straight through to Penfield and beyond, branching off at Salisbury.
Mhm, gotcha! I hear that if the rail portion of GlobeLink does go ahead, then only trains that will be using the ARTC line would be the "Indian Pacific" (and maybe "Overland", depending on several factors). If either are still around by the time this project goes ahead and if the tracks further south are converted to Broad or the suburban transport is switched back to Standard Gauge.

Nathan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:06 pm
TrebleSketch wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:26 pm
Nathan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 am
“Not within the scope of the project” is pretty much DPTIs mission statement.
That is true, haha. I think they do worry if they make the project too big, it would affect too many people = less community support. Infrastructure projects are generally toned down unless either the government really wants it done and/or they think they can ensure community support.
I think it's less that, and more wearing blinkers. If there's something that can be done alongside a project that's mutually beneficial to themselves and other parties and save work and money in the long term, they'll still shove fingers in their ears and sing "la la la out of scope". I'm thinking more along things like shared paths along projects, or how it interacts with a neighbouring development.

Ahhh, yeah, that does make sense... I noticed that on the south-eastern portion of Hawker St there is a shared bike path and also a bus stop.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:51 pm
by ChillyPhilly
I'd love to see freight and even interstate passenger services relocated from the Belair and Gawler lines - they form a significant barrier for pedestrians and other movements in the case of long trains, plus the route through the Hills is slow and inefficient. However, at the same time I'd love to see interstate rail return to the CBD. It's a big conflict.

The best solution is for the GlobeLink rail route to happen, but for a new interstate line to the CBD - be it a tunnel or not. I'll do a map when I have a chance.

[PRO] Re: Torrens Road Grade Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:39 pm
by Eurostar
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:51 pm
I'd love to see freight and even interstate passenger services relocated from the Belair and Gawler lines - they form a significant barrier for pedestrians and other movements in the case of long trains, plus the route through the Hills is slow and inefficient. However, at the same time I'd love to see interstate rail return to the CBD. It's a big conflict.

The best solution is for the GlobeLink rail route to happen, but for a new interstate line to the CBD - be it a tunnel or not. I'll do a map when I have a chance.
As for passenger train between Adelaide and Melbourne I believe the only way it could compete with planes is be competitive on price and have a overnight train