News & Discussion: Other Transport Projects

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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Goodsy
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#556 Post by Goodsy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:26 pm

Torrens_5022 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:22 pm
You need to remember if you get rid of some stations your just going to create gridlock with people trying to get to the next one.
that's the point, close the stations and build bus terminals at the other ones so trains can run faster

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#557 Post by Patrick_27 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 pm

I agree that there needs to be an audit however I think there needs to be consideration for the future when making the decision to open/close/upgrade stations. When travelling along the Belair Line the other day I noticed just how slow the train goes... There has been the debate on this forum as to whether an extended Belair Line to Mt. Barker or Murray Bridge would/could be viable, despite convincing counter arguments to this idea, I still believe it is. However, not without considerable changes to the current operating of the Belair Line. Electrify the line and trains can and will run faster. But primary is the number of stations: Torrens Park and Mitcham are literally a kilometre away from each other... Goodwood and Showgrounds are almost the same, Unley Park and Mitcham are also really close. Solution? Unless there are plans to have a tram/train interchange at Goodwood (unlikely), close Goodwood and leave the gap between Millswood and Showgrounds (offer a park and ride facility at Millswood whilst the Showgrounds can acts as the interchange between Seaford and Belair services), close Torrens Park and Lynton and reopen Clapham (again, offer a park and ride facilities at Clapham and interchangeable bus services on Springbank Road above, also upgrade Mitcham's park and ride facilities). These changes alone would make travel times on this line substantially quicker and would also keep the level crossings and Lynton and Cross Road open for longer without the snail pace train station arrival/departure.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#558 Post by rubberman » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 am

One of the determining features of whether a line should be a tram/light rail, or train is the stop spacing.

Close stops favour trams, longer spacing favours heavy rail.

Trams are definitely superior under around 900m spacing, and heavy rail above 2km. In between it's often dependent on other factors such as grades and economics.

If the stops are too close together, the train can't get up as much speed as a tram, so even if it has more passenger capacity per vehicle, it can't get them to their destination as fast as trams running more frequently with higher acceleration and braking between stops.

On the other hand, with longer stops, heavy rail can get up to higher speeds with more passengers.

It's why Port Melbourne and St Kilda rail lines were converted to trams, and the Glenelg line too for that matter. It's also why the Port line is often under scrutiny. The station spacing makes trams a viable alternative.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#559 Post by Torrens_5022 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm

The major problem with the Belair is it's single track, this can add 10mins to a standard 37min journey (look at the timetable) Also it's a hilly and windy line its always going to be slower then a flat line.
Even if you could get the 21.5km journey to Belair down to 30min, that would mean it would take 75mins to Mt Barker which is 55km via train, in comparison a semi express Gawler train takes 55min to travel 42km, averaging a speed of 46kmh. Why would you waste so much resources on a train to Mt Barker, when you could create a high frequency bus service that takes 45min, an entire 30min less then a train would take. The Belair line is an odd one, its quicker via bus to Pinera and Belair, plus it only has an hourly frequency on weekends, this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#560 Post by Goodsy » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:41 pm

Torrens_5022 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm
The major problem with the Belair is it's single track, this can add 10mins to a standard 37min journey (look at the timetable) Also it's a hilly and windy line its always going to be slower then a flat line.
Even if you could get the 21.5km journey to Belair down to 30min, that would mean it would take 75mins to Mt Barker which is 55km via train, in comparison a semi express Gawler train takes 55min to travel 42km, averaging a speed of 46kmh. Why would you waste so much resources on a train to Mt Barker, when you could create a high frequency bus service that takes 45min, an entire 30min less then a train would take. The Belair line is an odd one, its quicker via bus to Pinera and Belair, plus it only has an hourly frequency on weekends, this is an issue that needs to be resolved.
only in Adelaide would an express train average a whopping 46kmh. Gawler really should drop down to a 20 minute ride

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#561 Post by Norman » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:17 pm

Actually, an express train on the Gawler Line with 5 or 6 intermediate stops takes 44 minutes from Gawler to Adelaide, which is about 60km/h.

The current trains they are running are limited to 90km/h.

A 20 minute service would be impossible unless you add a third track or remove the trains that stop more frequently, as well as new rolling stock and a further track and signalling upgrade.

In Sydney, the express train from Central to Parramatta also travels at 60km/h, with 2 intermediate stops. So it's not an "Only in Adelaide" thing.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#562 Post by I Follow PAFC » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:35 pm

Torrens_5022 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm
The major problem with the Belair is it's single track, this can add 10mins to a standard 37min journey (look at the timetable) Also it's a hilly and windy line its always going to be slower then a flat line.
Even if you could get the 21.5km journey to Belair down to 30min, that would mean it would take 75mins to Mt Barker which is 55km via train, in comparison a semi express Gawler train takes 55min to travel 42km, averaging a speed of 46kmh. Why would you waste so much resources on a train to Mt Barker, when you could create a high frequency bus service that takes 45min, an entire 30min less then a train would take. The Belair line is an odd one, its quicker via bus to Pinera and Belair, plus it only has an hourly frequency on weekends, this is an issue that needs to be resolved.
The Belair line will be going to 30 mins frequency on weekends in the next timetable changes.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#563 Post by Torrens_5022 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:13 pm

Quickest ARS to Gawler Central express is 47min and 7 stops. Are people going to try and argue that we should be running non stop trains from Gawler to ARS. If you run a two tired system of all stops and high frequency stations only you would have a 55min and 45min service to Gawler Station (add 4mins to get to Gawler Central), you save 10mins. Gawler is just the end of the line it's not a giant population and work spot a 50min journey to Gawler isn't long.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#564 Post by adelaide transport » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:40 pm

I Follow PAFC wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:35 pm
Torrens_5022 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm
The major problem with the Belair is it's single track, this can add 10mins to a standard 37min journey (look at the timetable) Also it's a hilly and windy line its always going to be slower then a flat line.
Even if you could get the 21.5km journey to Belair down to 30min, that would mean it would take 75mins to Mt Barker which is 55km via train, in comparison a semi express Gawler train takes 55min to travel 42km, averaging a speed of 46kmh. Why would you waste so much resources on a train to Mt Barker, when you could create a high frequency bus service that takes 45min, an entire 30min less then a train would take. The Belair line is an odd one, its quicker via bus to Pinera and Belair, plus it only has an hourly frequency on weekends, this is an issue that needs to be resolved.
The Belair line will be going to 30 mins frequency on weekends in the next timetable changes.
All lines at night/weekends(excluding Tonsley) will go to a 30 minute service and some Feeder buses as well, with the major timetable changes occurring in late January(just prior to State Election-how convenient!)

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#565 Post by SBD » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:08 am

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm
Torrens_5022 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:56 pm
Once the city loop is built trains will run more frequently, the Flinders line will be finished the extension to Aldinga built, Gawler line electrified which would mean a high frequency service for the major stops and less for the in between stops. Some stations are too close but the expanding suburb of Eyre will need Womma station, removing it would be pointless. What stations would you close on the Gawler to Seaford line(s)?
Close these on the Gawler line

Tambelin
Kudla
Broadmeadows
Elizabeth South
Nurlutta
Chidda
Parafield Gardens
Greenfields
Was that list derived from watching passenger usage, or simply a map? For example:
  • Tambelin serves Trinity College
  • Elizabeth South serves DST (and possibly BAE?) (and housing trust on the east side)
  • Broadmeadows has high concentrations of low socio-economic housing trust on both sides
I don't know anything about the others.

Some of the "obvious" high-volume stations have as their main feature a car park. What makes a car park more important to service than housing or industry? Other people on this thread have pointed out that park-and-ride still requires the use of a car.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#566 Post by Norman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:37 am

adelaide transport wrote:
I Follow PAFC wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:35 pm
Torrens_5022 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm
The major problem with the Belair is it's single track, this can add 10mins to a standard 37min journey (look at the timetable) Also it's a hilly and windy line its always going to be slower then a flat line.
Even if you could get the 21.5km journey to Belair down to 30min, that would mean it would take 75mins to Mt Barker which is 55km via train, in comparison a semi express Gawler train takes 55min to travel 42km, averaging a speed of 46kmh. Why would you waste so much resources on a train to Mt Barker, when you could create a high frequency bus service that takes 45min, an entire 30min less then a train would take. The Belair line is an odd one, its quicker via bus to Pinera and Belair, plus it only has an hourly frequency on weekends, this is an issue that needs to be resolved.
The Belair line will be going to 30 mins frequency on weekends in the next timetable changes.
All lines at night/weekends(excluding Tonsley) will go to a 30 minute service and some Feeder buses as well, with the major timetable changes occurring in late January(just prior to State Election-how convenient!)
I believe the extra services start in December, as the government said they will be in place before the end of the year. Could still be in January though.

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#567 Post by PeFe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:24 pm

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm
Close these on the Gawler line

Tambelin
Kudla
Broadmeadows
Elizabeth South
Nurlutta
Chidda
Parafield Gardens
Greenfields
:applause: :applause: :applause:

Way to go !!!!

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#568 Post by Norman » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:05 pm

A few updates on a few projects.

Goodwood Road has had a major makeover, with new kerbing, footpaths and underground power lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ipwWbKPnM

The Springbank Road upgrade continues, with new footpaths, kerbing, indented bus stops and parking bays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bazoHGRr7Qc

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#569 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:18 am

In case anyone wants to participate:
Future of Transport survey
Researchers Raul Barreto, Anton van den Hengel and Jon Kellett (University of Adelaide - Schools of Economics, Computer Science and Architecture and the Built Environment) want to gauge perceptions of self-driving vehicles (SDVs) and the market’s preference to SDVs over traditional cars. The project team aims to contribute to Adelaide’s Smart Cities dialogue. Please complete the survey, which takes less than 5 minutes, and also pass it on to any interested networks.
Survey link: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/3988860/F ... ort-Survey

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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

#570 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:38 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:18 am
In case anyone wants to participate:
Future of Transport survey
Researchers Raul Barreto, Anton van den Hengel and Jon Kellett (University of Adelaide - Schools of Economics, Computer Science and Architecture and the Built Environment) want to gauge perceptions of self-driving vehicles (SDVs) and the market’s preference to SDVs over traditional cars. The project team aims to contribute to Adelaide’s Smart Cities dialogue. Please complete the survey, which takes less than 5 minutes, and also pass it on to any interested networks.
Survey link: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/3988860/F ... ort-Survey
Pointless survey:
1) It assumes I work in "the CBD"
2) It assumes I use either a car or public transport to get to work. It discounts the option of driving to a metropolitan transport interchange then using the bus/train the rest of the way
3) It disregards cycling or walking to work at all
4) There are invalid assumptions built into many more of the multiple choice questions where the obvious answer would be "none of the above as your assumption does not work"

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