SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East End

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Waewick
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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#121 Post by Waewick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:28 pm

citywatcher wrote:
rubberman wrote:
Haso wrote:I am not defending anyone here but we do not have local Liberal party committed to the public transport. If we had, everything might be different, no rushing, no last opportunity to do something like that before the election, just competition who will deliver better for less money… Building this new tram line becomes now an election ping pong issue and less a step in the future…
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That's what I'd like to see.

A couple of random thoughts, politically speaking. The fact that a government cannot seem to plan well does not say much about its competence. However, going back to 1979, David Tonkin, then Leader of the Opposition, went to Germany, came back with the O-Bahn idea, won the election, and the O-Bahn was a success.

Is Stephen Marshall able to get on a plane like David Tonkin did, go overseas, say to the Czech Republic where they really know how to make trams, visit Škoda at Pilsen and Pragoimex at Ostrava, and come back with something a whole lot better than overpriced, outdated Citadis? If he can't, I guess it says something about the competence of the opposition.

So, are we going to see Stephen Marshall replicate David Tonkin's 1979 victorious efforts? Or is it going to be a mediocre government effort trumping (pun intended) an even more mediocre opposition?
I think the question of Marshall's competence is already answered. Hence the government's desire to build the tram line now.
Seriously what a ridiculous post. Quite frankly if Wetherill and the kout think Marshall is incompetent I think that would be a positive.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#122 Post by Waewick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:39 pm

It would have been useful 10 years ago, when the though bubble became a reality, to do some planning and actually set down a strategy to grow the Tram network.

The problem we have is that Labor wait every 3 and 1/2 years to announce something to maximise votes.

We can lambast the Libs lack of public transport nouse all we want, but that isn't going to help for the next 18 months.

I do hope that the Liberals have learnt something for the last unloseable election.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#123 Post by rubberman » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:45 pm

Haso wrote:On the other hand… with such small network as in Adelaide, imagine having another three trams of some different type/manufacture and servicing costs that will carry with that. From what I can remember reading some European transport sites, Madrid has surplus of trams which are not used but stored and maintained.
We might pay a bit more but we will have some type of trams and that means everyone are familiar how to maintain and run these trams… and spare parts are already here.
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Haso, I'd agree 100% if there were no plans to extend the system.

However, if we intend to have a system running to the suburbs needing 50 or more trams, then the argument goes against the Citadis. We would then have 50 new trams, plus the Flexitys, and only 9 Citadis of an obsolete design. All the problems you describe would then apply to the Citadis. So, why buy 3 trams of a type that will be a minority in the future fleet and facing all the problems you pointed out? Politics? Ignorance?

Just because Madrid bought old tech trams and have them in a back lot somewhere, should South Australian taxpayers bail them out?

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#124 Post by Haso » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:30 pm

rubberman wrote:
Haso wrote:On the other hand… with such small network as in Adelaide, imagine having another three trams of some different type/manufacture and servicing costs that will carry with that. From what I can remember reading some European transport sites, Madrid has surplus of trams which are not used but stored and maintained.
We might pay a bit more but we will have some type of trams and that means everyone are familiar how to maintain and run these trams… and spare parts are already here.
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Haso, I'd agree 100% if there were no plans to extend the system.

However, if we intend to have a system running to the suburbs needing 50 or more trams, then the argument goes against the Citadis. We would then have 50 new trams, plus the Flexitys, and only 9 Citadis of an obsolete design. All the problems you describe would then apply to the Citadis. So, why buy 3 trams of a type that will be a minority in the future fleet and facing all the problems you pointed out? Politics? Ignorance?

Just because Madrid bought old tech trams and have them in a back lot somewhere, should South Australian taxpayers bail them out?
Don’t know how to quote only your part… and not making this looking too big…maybe I will learn with more practice.

I am not so sure about what will happen in the future and along that line - will we have a new tram lines. I am afraid that for a long time we will have what we will have at end of this year as Labor leading SA for last 15 years and that is a very long period. Yes I am aware that Liberals (Liberal and Country League) in the past hold the power for a far longer but then was different time and different electorates boundaries. Sorry for being a pessimist.

Yes, I will agree with you if we have now some firm plan with everything/dates for sure and willingness to put some future money for that, but we do not have and the opposition is not willing to commit for the network. I am not that long here in Australia but I learned some things about local public opinion regarding public transport. I am hoping with that short stretch (but lovely) along NT and KW they (Labor) will create fait accompli and force opposition to continue with the network… if that happen I will quote myself and write – I was wrong.
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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#125 Post by Norman » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:56 pm

Haso wrote:On the other hand… with such small network as in Adelaide, imagine having another three trams of some different type/manufacture and servicing costs that will carry with that. From what I can remember reading some European transport sites, Madrid has surplus of trams which are not used but stored and maintained.
We might pay a bit more but we will have some type of trams and that means everyone are familiar how to maintain and run these trams… and spare parts are already here.
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Exactly, it's the same with airlines, they keep their fleet to a minimum number of models, to reduce maintenance cost. A higher up-front cost might be cheaper in the long run.

On the other hand, why not just run the H-Class :D

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#126 Post by rubberman » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:23 pm

Norman wrote: Exactly, it's the same with airlines, they keep their fleet to a minimum number of models, to reduce maintenance cost. A higher up-front cost might be cheaper in the long run.

On the other hand, why not just run the H-Class :D
Actually, that's brilliant! :cheers:

We save $15m (I vote you 10% commission) by running "historic" trams on shuttle duty, as per the line in Melbourne until the final number of trams for the expanded system is determined. Then we buy however many trams are required at the lower price we'd get for a bulk order.

Save lots of money, run historic trams for tourists and commuters, get a much more standardised fleet in the longer term. Then, sell the Citadis to Sydney for the price we originally paid after they find their APT trams won't run in heavy rain...they'll buy anything. :banana:

While I might seem to have been critical of local authorities here, SA transport people are gold plated geniuses compared to Transport for NSW. TfNSW couldn't do the North Terrace extension for $200m...and the new George St line might not even work in heavy downpours. So, SA is not bad in comparison.
Last edited by rubberman on Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#127 Post by citywatcher » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:27 pm

Waewick wrote:
citywatcher wrote:
rubberman wrote: That's what I'd like to see.

A couple of random thoughts, politically speaking. The fact that a government cannot seem to plan well does not say much about its competence. However, going back to 1979, David Tonkin, then Leader of the Opposition, went to Germany, came back with the O-Bahn idea, won the election, and the O-Bahn was a success.

Is Stephen Marshall able to get on a plane like David Tonkin did, go overseas, say to the Czech Republic where they really know how to make trams, visit Škoda at Pilsen and Pragoimex at Ostrava, and come back with something a whole lot better than overpriced, outdated Citadis? If he can't, I guess it says something about the competence of the opposition.

So, are we going to see Stephen Marshall replicate David Tonkin's 1979 victorious efforts? Or is it going to be a mediocre government effort trumping (pun intended) an even more mediocre opposition?
I think the question of Marshall's competence is already answered. Hence the government's desire to build the tram line now.
Seriously what a ridiculous post. Quite frankly if Wetherill and the kout think Marshall is incompetent I think that would be a positive.
Seriously its the truth
If the liberal party was in we would be a ghost town . Bad luck boomer. Truth hurts.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#128 Post by rubberman » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:34 pm

citywatcher wrote: Seriously its the truth
If the liberal party was in we would be a ghost town . Bad luck boomer. Truth hurts.
I guess we'll see. If Mr Marshall can step over the rather low bar being set, and come up with something better, and they can do that with a few other issues, they'll win. If they can't improve on the ALPs offering, they'll lose. So, rather than predict, let's see what they come up with. :2cents:

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#129 Post by citywatcher » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Well this is a development site. From that point of view they have criticized most developments over the years as unnecessary and a waste of money

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#130 Post by Spurdo » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:45 pm

citywatcher wrote: Bad luck boomer. Truth hurts.
haha, callling him an old person, nice meme friend :^) /s

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#131 Post by Waewick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:46 pm

citywatcher wrote:
Waewick wrote:
citywatcher wrote: I think the question of Marshall's competence is already answered. Hence the government's desire to build the tram line now.
Seriously what a ridiculous post. Quite frankly if Wetherill and the kout think Marshall is incompetent I think that would be a positive.
Seriously its the truth
If the liberal party was in we would be a ghost town . Bad luck boomer. Truth hurts.
What the hell is a boomer.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#132 Post by Goodsy » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:56 pm

A baby boomer

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#133 Post by Waewick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:02 pm

GoodSmackUp wrote:A baby boomer
Was just checking. Assumed as much but I like to conform these things. Fortunately not a baby boomer yet.

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#134 Post by Llessur2002 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:19 am

From the ABC (sorry if it's already been posted):
"The trams offered for sale have not been used in service and are in new condition, despite being built in 2010," Mr Malinauskas said.

"They have been stored in Madrid and have been maintained to a high standard by the manufacturer and are in as-new condition.

"As well as being a high-quality product and a great deal for taxpayers, if our bid is successful, expanding our fleet with the same type of trams will also mean cheaper operating and maintenance costs than if a different type of vehicle was purchased."
Full article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-19/o ... s_adelaide

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Re: SA Budget 2016: Adelaide tramline to be extended to East

#135 Post by [Shuz] » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:35 am

Wow, this thread and the amount of bickering reads like an AdelaideNow comments section.

Good move by Govt. to purchase Citadis trams. Familiar stock, no driver training, reduced maintenance costs, operational from Day 1. Best outcome really.
Any views and opinions expressed are of my own, and do not reflect the views or opinions of any organisation of which I have an affiliation with.

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