How did Victoria grow?

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claybro
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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#31 Post by claybro » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:20 pm

Melbournes momentum and growth of the last decade is a self fuelling phenomenon. But it wasn't always so, and there was a time in the 80's when Adelaide outstripped Melbourne in almost every area. Economy, population growth, tourism. By the mid 80's Adelaide was on the rise, while Melbourne stagnated. The damage done by the State Bank collapse really affected Adelaide, and not just financially. It never really got the old momentum back. Victoria at the time had its Pyramid Bank collapse which decimated their finanaces, but the vision of Geoff Kennet, to focus any and all developement into Melbourne, the Docklands and sporting precincts really turned things around. SA on the other hand got a nervous nelly Olson government, who put up the shutters and the rot set in. I don't think Adelaide ever really recovered from the nay sayers.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#32 Post by mshagg » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:08 am

Economic strength is largely a function of population growth. Victoria's strength in recent years has been a function of their burgeoning population, primarily driven by overseas arrivals and compounded by interstate movements.

Back of the envelope - 66k migrants arrive in NSW every year, 55k into Victoria and 10k into SA. 10k people from NSW and SA bugger off to Melbourne every year, which sees it have the fastest growing population in the country. Their population is increasing by 65k pa versus 6k here in SA. That is, to me, extraordinary, but also means the apparent boom down there is completely unsurprising.

Its not a case of build it and they'll come... its get them here and then we have to build it.

Source:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf ... enDocument

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#33 Post by wll6568 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:56 am

mshagg wrote:Economic strength is largely a function of population growth. Victoria's strength in recent years has been a function of their burgeoning population, primarily driven by overseas arrivals and compounded by interstate movements.

Back of the envelope - 66k migrants arrive in NSW every year, 55k into Victoria and 10k into SA. 10k people from NSW and SA bugger off to Melbourne every year, which sees it have the fastest growing population in the country. Their population is increasing by 65k pa versus 6k here in SA. That is, to me, extraordinary, but also means the apparent boom down there is completely unsurprising.

Its not a case of build it and they'll come... its get them here and then we have to build it.

Source:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf ... enDocument
So what makes it such a drawcard for people to go? I think it's the growth that they been building throughout the decades that made it such a drawcard. Whoever decided to build their underground city loop railway, their revitalised southbank boulevard, the docklands, richmond, brunswick high street, south yarra district, box hill centre, etc. You can't deny ADL has been sleeping over the past 30 years, especially from 1990 - 2010. Only from 2010 you started hearing some slogans but mostly just talk. How many years have we heard about the new riverbank development, casino development, laneway revitalisation, chinatown market redevelopment? But...so little actions....

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#34 Post by monotonehell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:02 am

wll6568 wrote:...You can't deny ADL has been sleeping over the past 30 years, especially from 1990 - 2010. Only from 2010 you started hearing some slogans but mostly just talk. How many years have we heard about the new riverbank development, casino development, laneway revitalisation, chinatown market redevelopment? But...so little actions....
All of those things you list are happening now. We're finally seeing some momentum. Need to keep that going.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#35 Post by HiTouch » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:38 pm

monotonehell wrote:
wll6568 wrote:...You can't deny ADL has been sleeping over the past 30 years, especially from 1990 - 2010. Only from 2010 you started hearing some slogans but mostly just talk. How many years have we heard about the new riverbank development, casino development, laneway revitalisation, chinatown market redevelopment? But...so little actions....
All of those things you list are happening now. We're finally seeing some momentum. Need to keep that going.
The issue for South Australia is that Private investment without government intrusion has been lacking. As soon as Business confidence in Adelaide grows, only then will things happen and it's growing which is good. People would rather listen to a Private Run Tourism Industry rather than a government run tourism agency.

mainly because these days nobody really likes the Labor Party Commies and Slack Liberals apart from Smelly Inner-city Normies and Eastern Suburb n00bs. Those drongos have been running us to the ground. Clive Palmer for Prime Minister!!! he has some good economic policy and a dog on the grog

Give it time though, we'll grow. :)
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:55 am
If the parklands are so important why dont they put it to a vote state wide? Or are they afraid the majority will back this hotel..

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#36 Post by [Shuz] » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:31 am

HiTouch... how many red mitsubishi pills have you taken lately?
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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#37 Post by crawf » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:47 am

HiTouch wrote: mainly because these days nobody really likes the Labor Party Commies and Slack Liberals apart from Smelly Inner-city Normies and Eastern Suburb n00bs. Those drongos have been running us to the ground. Clive Palmer for Prime Minister!!! he has some good economic policy and a dog on the grog

Give it time though, we'll grow. :)
Wut

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#38 Post by wll6568 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:04 am

Melbourne raced at breakneck speed in 1870 towards becoming the second biggest city in the British Empire, and few things better underline the manner in which money and people force change than the old railway maps.

The railway network of nearly 150 years ago showcased just three regional lines: one heading from Melbourne to the Echuca wharf on the Murray River; another to Geelong; and a third, northwestern line, towards the pockmarked gold country around Ballarat that ­funded the late-19th century boom in the southern capital.

Fast forward to 1930 and the rail landscape is transformed across thousands of stops, scores of new lines and a map clogged with destinations and economic opportunity.

That rail later would diminish in influence under the weight of cars and trucks only adds to the Victorian population story, which today is undergoing its most dramatic changes.

Between 1880 and 1890, Vic­toria’s population surged from 280,000 to 490,000; today the state is adding more than 100,000 people a year as Melbourne is again poised to become Australia’s population capital.

The latest Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show Victoria’s population surging 2.1 per cent annually, up 123,000 on the previous year to a shade over six million; NSW is up 105,000 to 7.7 million.

Greater Melbourne boasted a ­reported population of 4.6 million and Sydney 4.95 million but, on present projections, Melbourne will be the dominant population centre in less than 20 years.

This surge is on the back of deep, pragmatic interest in Melbourne, where areas of flat land in the outer suburbs have been opened up to create (relative to Sydney) cheaper housing, providing a meaningful destination for immigrants locked out of the Sydney market by a landscape that limits growth and a pricing paradigm that can be prohibitive.

But the challenge in Victoria is real, with both sides of politics promising an infrastructure pipeline that is optimistic but will ­surely fall well short of what is needed without a significant injection of federal cash.

Plan Melbourne is the Victorian government’s blueprint to 2050, which warns that by that date a further 1.5 million jobs will need to be created, 1.6 million extra homes will need to be built and the city’s transport network will need to cater for about 10 million more trips a day — all of this within the broad ­expectation that lifestyle and prosperity will not change.

On present settings, this seems unachievable. But Victorian Planning Minister Richard Wynne ­believes strategic thinking, coupled with a push to populate the ­regions, will alleviate some of the pressure on Melbourne, where commuting times and overall livability are under threat.

Wynne says the regional centres of Bendigo, Geelong, Ballarat and, to a lesser extent, the ­Latrobe Valley make for logical destinations, as more people now travel to Bendigo each day than leave for Melbourne or elsewhere.

“It’s quite an extraordinary shift,’’ he tells The Weekend Australian. “It’s jobs and housing.”

Under Plan Melbourne, 70 per cent of growth will be accommodated in established suburbs, with 30 per cent in growth corridors in the southeast, northern, Dandenong and western corridors.

This year a further 100,000 blocks of land are due to emerge, underscoring the vastness of the challenge across 17 new suburbs.

Hundreds of new schools, hospitals and roads will be needed, with a heavy emphasis on deve­loper contributions in growth areas as well as general infrastructure charges.

In short, tens of billions of dollars will need to flood into the southern capital at the same time that the commonwealth is offering, according to Wynne, just 7 per cent of infrastructure funding for a state that makes up a quarter of the national population. “It’s a shocking imbalance,’’ he says.

At the same time, the Labor government is promising to pour north of $20 billion into rail and road ­infrastructure, including a ­capacity-building underground rail network in inner Melbourne.

Planning is the sledgehammer state governments can unleash to deal with housing challenges but the reality is the market is still boiling in Melbourne.

The Australian Population ­Research Institute has warned that neither Victoria nor NSW has implemented adequate policies to address the core issues with the housing markets. Its president, Bob Birrell, says research he ­released last year pointed to official failures at a state level to deal with the “social catastrophe” flowing from record house prices in Melbourne and Sydney: “We ­argued that both governments were missing the boat,” he says.

The report into housing affordability found federal factors were also at play, including negative gearing and capital gains concessions, with Canberra also providing built-in price rises through its strong immigration program.

“Our projections show that … new migrants will add about 64 per cent to the need for extra dwellings in Sydney over the decade 2012 to 2022 and 54 per cent in Melbourne,” his co-authored report found. “For its part, the Reserve Bank, which has likewise fretted over the downturn in resource ­investment, sharply lowered interest rates.”

Birrell accuses state planners of getting it totally wrong by assum­ing that infill developments will deal with demand for small households; he says a key need is for more housing stock to cater for families.

All of this is in the context of growing work pressures, job ­insecurity and rampant materialism, which is piling pressure on the millions of aspirational people in the major city growth corridors.

They are working harder than ever but looking on as the growing pains of city-centric eastern seaboard life become distressing.

Astonishingly, not even the federal government has a population policy. Victorian Labor also went to the last poll without one.

Enter the Victorian opposition.

Having set up a population taskforce led by Liberal MP Tim Smith, it is roaring around Victoria capitalising on the regional and city angst about house prices, infrastructure and livability.

The understanding is that only two things can fix or even begin to address the challenges facing a booming state: lots of money and plenty of planning. This is what the state’s founding fathers did in the late 1800s when they super­sized the Victorian rail ­network.

One hundred and fifty years ago there were two core advan­tages for planners and government: gold and a blank canvas. These luxuries are absent in 2017 as increasingly nervous voters struggle with pressures unimaginable in the 19th century, regardless of the more prosperous conditions they now enjoy.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/in ... f2850e2293

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#39 Post by Vee » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:06 pm

City v Sprawl: a tale of two cities (Melbourne)

Re-visit on a popular theme.
As the population booms in the capital city ...
Melbourne is growing — upwards in the middle, and outwards at the edges. How does family life in the booming centre compare to the sprawling fringes?
ABC News:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-28/m ... wl/8352962

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#40 Post by fishinajar » Wed May 17, 2017 8:14 pm

Let Sydney and Melbourne grow. Their infra. requirements backlog will continue to build. Commuting distances and rents will continue to skyrocket. Congestion, vehicular and pedestrian will worsen. Public open space, the city, universities will all become increasingly crowded.

But only an hour and a half away there will be "Little" Adelaide. Becoming increasingly well connected, affordable and pleasant, our quality of life will exceed that of the big cities. Big business may base their HQs in the big cities, but they would do well financially to locate some of their departments here in Adelaide. We have good universities and the new biomedical and technology innovation precincts. Lower rents and high internet speeds will benefit small and startup businesses. A northern irrigation scheme will boost our world famous food and beverage production capacity.
We don't need to grow at a crazy speed to be successful. Adelaide will build its own brand of success I believe.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#41 Post by rev » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:44 am

fishinajar wrote:Let Sydney and Melbourne grow. Their infra. requirements backlog will continue to build. Commuting distances and rents will continue to skyrocket. Congestion, vehicular and pedestrian will worsen. Public open space, the city, universities will all become increasingly crowded.

But only an hour and a half away there will be "Little" Adelaide. Becoming increasingly well connected, affordable and pleasant, our quality of life will exceed that of the big cities. Big business may base their HQs in the big cities, but they would do well financially to locate some of their departments here in Adelaide. We have good universities and the new biomedical and technology innovation precincts. Lower rents and high internet speeds will benefit small and startup businesses. A northern irrigation scheme will boost our world famous food and beverage production capacity.
We don't need to grow at a crazy speed to be successful. Adelaide will build its own brand of success I believe.
So I assume there's a magical plan that's going to create tens of thousands of well paying jobs in South Australia?

Their back log? Even with a back log in infrastructure, they still have better infrastructure then Adelaide. Using your logic you would assume since Adelaide is smaller, and growing a snails pace, we'd be on top of infrastructure.
If you weren't aware, the back log for infrastructure works in this state is horrendous. I don't know if you drive a vehicle or catch a train and walk the rest of the way, but there's roads in every single direction you travel in that are in desperate need of maintenance, repair and improvements. Many, many, many roads.

Why would big business "do well financially" to move some of their departments to Adelaide? We have a reputation now of being unable to keep the power going(not that we are the only ones who suffer black outs, but the state wide black out didn't help). Presumably they'd move into modern offices, fitted out with NBN(fibre optics), which requires a power supply to operate. The unreliable power supply means companies have had to fork out tens of thousands, if not millions, to fit out back up generators. So there goes the "do well financially" theory.
It's wishful thinking. If they were going to do well financially to move departments here, they'd already have done it. Big business isn't like a government that runs inefficiently and over budget. Heads will roll a lot more frequently then they would in government.

There's no business case for big corporations to move anything to Adelaide. Especially since a majority of their clientele aren't in Adelaide.

So what do we have that's advantageous over the eastern cities? Our average commute times on the roads is shorter?
That's great, that really is. But there's no damn jobs here. The economy is in bad shape.
A minor boom in hotels and apartments doesn't mean we have a strong economy and a jobs bonanza.

Rent might continue to go up in Melbourne, as it does here in Adelaide, but at least over there, it's a lot easier to find your self employment so you can pay your rent, and meet the cost of living.
I know lots of people over there who are doing much better then most people here. I know quite a few people who in the last 7 months have found work in Melbourne and moved there and are doing much better then they ever were here in Adelaide.

There's another problem that most people aren't aware of or wouldn't even think of when it comes to population growth for this state.
We are getting migrants coming from India for example. They have friends or family who are going to Melbourne, or Sydney when they migrate to Australia. Or have moved there after living in Adelaide for a short while. It's not very hard to convince a new arrival who has no real connection or roots or 'feeling' for a place, to leave and join you in another place that has more employment and economic opportunities.
I'm sure you noticed the news this past week or two that South Australia has lost a federal seat. That's because of our slow or lack of population growth.

The problems this state has a deep. They are fixable though. We just don't have any political leader in any party at the moment who is capable of fixing things sooner rather then later. Labor is keeping things moving, all be it slowly. The Liberals have no idea.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#42 Post by Waewick » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:06 am

Rev seriously your love of Labor clearly knows no bounds.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#43 Post by rev » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Waewick wrote:Rev seriously your love of Labor clearly knows no bounds.
I think Labor stink, are corrupt(as corrupt as the Liberals), federally I'd never even entertain the idea of voting for them not even for the lolz so long as a sleazy grub like Shorten is leader.
However, in this state, there's no real alternative that will do any better. The alternative we do have, will potentially be much, much worse.

Will the state Liberals fund public transport expansion and improvement? Not that I'm a PT user, or have any intention of hoping on a train or tram any time soon, but PT is a vital component for a thriving and moving city. Even I can recognize that much. The old tram network should never have been ripped up(I'm sure many of us here agree on that).
Let's be honest, they wouldn't have extended the tram line to the EC, they wouldn't be planning on extending it east up north tce, or north towards the oval. They wouldn't have electrified any section of any line on the train network.

Would we have the superway? Would work be underway on the north south corridor?(which I think the whole damn thing should be underway, and it should go all the way to Victor, but that's just my opinion)
Would the Southern Expressway have been duplicated?
Would the Northern Expressway have been built?
Would the PREXY been built?

How about Techport? Would they have campaigned and pushed as hard as Labor did for the destroyer contract, how about the frigate and submarine contracts?

Would they have tried to save Holden? Or would they have rolled over because their federal counterparts weren't interested? (although one can argue that GM wasn't interested)

What sort of a dogs breakfast would the old RAH look like and be right now, if the Liberals were in power and implemented their redevelopment of it as opposed to Labor's new RAH?

Would their plan for a new stadium on the old railyards site have been delivered on time, and on budget?

These are just off the top of my head..
But really, show us, like I aske in the other thread, why the Liberals would have been better. OR why they would be better next time around.

If they were so much better, if they had a clear positive vision for the state, they would have won by a landslide. The only reason they came close, is because Labor's been in power so long.

I really wish the Liberals did have a positive, clear vision for our state. A vision that we can all get behind.
Because while Labor is moving things along, all be it very slowly much to my frustration as I've expressed before on this site, it seems at times that it's not based on a broader vision but knee jerk reactions almost, and then at other times it does seem there is some sort of grander plan they are working to.

This state needs a revival in it's politics. If the Liberal party can provide that, then great.
But they haven't provided that, and they are letting the state down.
But what do they care? They are getting six figure salaries at our expense, and a huge superannuation and pension to boot. Keep that gravy train rolling.

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#44 Post by Splashmo » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:32 pm

Looks like a few Melburnians are in a flap over the size of the place - worth a read on the price of excessive growth.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/world ... x8hk2.html

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Re: How did Victoria grow?

#45 Post by [Shuz] » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:08 pm

Maybe time for an advertising campaign directly targeted at Melbournians to move to Adelaide?
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