News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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PeFe
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1636 Post by PeFe » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:57 pm

So the Liberals transport policy says they will not proceed with the AdeLINK tram extensions into the suburbs, but instead "A Marshall Liberal Government will investigate the use of high capacity electric buses. This would
be an innovation to demonstrate that clean, quiet public transport is more suitable than the much higher cost of constructing tramways and operating trams. It would also avoid the negative impacts on the street amenity, on-street parking, traffic movements, the rest of the bus network and local businesses" (quoted directly from the Liberal website).
Brand new electric buses would be a welcome site.....however buses stuck in Adelaide traffic does not really advance the cause of transport "efficiency".

The Liberals public transport policy seems to accent "keeping buses away from cars, keeping as much car parking as possible, never giving any rapid transport options preference over cars...."
Looks like a pretty reasonable solution to me, with capital costs a small fraction of a tram option. Must, however, be coupled with high quality bus stops (which resemble the tram stops) and have real-time arrival information. Also would need to run on bus lanes during morning and afternoon peak times.
.......Yes its called BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) and the O-bahn is one example (although not a typical one, usually BRT works on dedicated road lanes)
And BRT is usually more successful where the "just like a train line " approach is used.....frequent services on a never-changing route....bus stops that feel like train stations (This type of approach is also used on US light rail systems in Los Angeles and Portland)

Lots of discussion on other transport forums re the BRT v LRT approach, costs and benefits etc...

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1637 Post by monotonehell » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am

ml69 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:34 pm
So the Liberals transport policy says they will not proceed with the AdeLINK tram extensions into the suburbs, but instead "A Marshall Liberal Government will investigate the use of high capacity electric buses. This would
be an innovation to demonstrate that clean, quiet public transport is more suitable than the much higher cost of constructing tramways and operating trams. It would also avoid the negative impacts on the street amenity, on-street parking, traffic movements, the rest of the bus network and local businesses" (quoted directly from the Liberal website).

I wonder whether they are alluding to something similar to this proposed Brisbane Metro bus system?
'Twin-bend' electric buses that will drive Brisbane's metro

Electric-powered buses almost 30 metres long could move Brisbane commuters in the new "metro" service announced by Brisbane City Council on Saturday.
While the council calls it a "metro" service, it is new-generation buses that would shift the people.
Full story: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... urzpm.html

Looks like a pretty reasonable solution to me, with capital costs a small fraction of a tram option. Must, however, be coupled with high quality bus stops (which resemble the tram stops) and have real-time arrival information. Also would need to run on bus lanes during morning and afternoon peak times.
High capacity as in power or passengers?

Doesn't matter if it's bus or tram, electric or horse drawn; if the transport doesn't have its own corridor then it will just be stuck in traffic. On street trams are hopelessly slow when they are in shared lanes, as are busses.

If this innovation is just busses on roads, then no one is advantaged.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1638 Post by claybro » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:48 pm

So we already have a bus trying to be a train in the Obahn, now they want buses trying to be light rail with electric long trolley buses. Buses do not reduce congestion on roads, because generally once the decision to go with a BRT instead of light rail is made, it ends up running on the road anyway. Done properly, a rapid bus will not be any less intrusive along the parade than a tram, and will not be as attractive to developers or commuters.?

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1639 Post by monotonehell » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:03 am

claybro wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:48 pm
So we already have a bus trying to be a train in the Obahn,
You mean a bus successfully being superior to a trian.;)
claybro wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:48 pm
now they want buses trying to be light rail with electric long trolley buses. Buses do not reduce congestion on roads, because generally once the decision to go with a BRT instead of light rail is made, it ends up running on the road anyway. Done properly, a rapid bus will not be any less intrusive along the parade than a tram, and will not be as attractive to developers or commuters.?
Yes the lessening of congestion caused if they manage to attract more people onto buses running along the parade would be minimal considering that there's a good service of multiple, regular busses already running there. Magil, Kensington Roads and The Parade already have Go Zone status. There's not much more that can be done without creating a reservation or bus only lanes.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1640 Post by SBD » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:41 pm

I regularly pass a couple of short bus-only lanes leading in to potentially-congested intersections. They seem to work well as the bus gets priority at the intersection then a free run in front of any other traffic. The buses reach them by using the left-turn-any-time slip lane but then get a priority for straight or turning right.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1641 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Upgrades are needed to bus lanes and bus priority on major roads if this scheme is to be successful.
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New Train Timetables 22-4-2019

#1642 Post by adelaide transport » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:30 am

The Transport Minister Stephen Knoll has this morning announced improved frequencies on rail services from Sunday 22nd April.
30 minute frequencies at nights and weekends will be introduced as well as some express services on weekday peaks on Outer Harbor services.
Some peak services on Seaford lines will be semi-express to speed up services.

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Re: New Train Timetables 22-4-2019

#1643 Post by OlympusAnt » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:31 am

They should bring back Oaklands-Brighton-All Stops to Seaford during the day and return Brighton trains
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Re: New Train Timetables 22-4-2019

#1644 Post by PeFe » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:16 pm

OlympusAnt wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:31 am
They should bring back Oaklands-Brighton-All Stops to Seaford during the day and return Brighton trains
When the Tonsley line is extended to Flinders MC/University, this presents a great opportunity to "separate" the Seaford and Tonsley lines, enabling Seaford to be express to Woodlands Park..permanently.

Not trying to be picky but this topic really should be in this forum
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1327

otherwise this forum will turn into Railpage...where you have 20 different threads on the same subject matter...

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#1645 Post by Joelmark » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:27 am

Quite a good article about the new train timetables in yesterday's - 11 April - InDaily. Like most on here I suppprted the continuation of the Weatherill Government but new transport minister Stephan Knoll does seem to at least be open minded about trying new things- he even states that the new government will seriously look at the extension of the tram line to O'Connell Street.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1646 Post by Haso » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Advertiser – 7/6/2018
Adelaide motorists are refusing to use public transport and jamming roads with too many cars
ADELAIDE commuters are refusing to ditch their cars in favour of public transport, bucking a nationwide trend seen in other major Australian cities.Only 10 per cent of Adelaide commuters use only the city’s public transport for their daily commute, a figure almost unchanged in 12 years. It is the worst of any mainland capital city.And the trend is having a clogging effect on the city’s roads, adding 26 minutes to the daily two-way commute for workers during peak hour.
The 2018 Public Transport Barometer, released today in Adelaide by the peak industry group the Tourism and Transport Forum, finds traffic chaos on key city routes was costing the Australian economy $16.5 billion. Barometer author Simon Barrett said the paper sent a clear message to the SA and Federal Governments to spend more on congestion-busting projects.“Without (this) the cost of congestion and the negative impact on people’s day-to-day lives will continue to skyrocket,” he said.
“Increasing congestion levels in Australia are estimated to cost $16.5 billion to metropolitan cities — $6 billion in private time costs, $8 billion in business time costs, $1.5 billion in extra vehicle operating costs and $1 billion in additional air pollution costs.’’
Adelaide recorded 80,000 less public transport trips in 2017 than 2016, with a total of 14 million rail trips, 51 million bus trips and more than nine million light rail trips. People for Public Transport spokeswoman Josephine Bucchorn urged the State Government to do more to make public transport enticing. “There needs to be safe, cheap and abundant parking at public transport hubs in the suburbs,” Ms Bucchorn said. “The cost of parking at those sites should be taken off the price of the metro ticket.” Ms Bucchorn said free public travel should be expanded throughout the CBD and surrounding suburbs especially during events.
In other capitals, commuters have decreased their reliance on cars in the past eight years. In Sydney, between 2006 and 2017, public transport use increased from 22 per cent to 25 per cent. Melbourne had a similar increase 15 per cent to 17 per cent and Perth grew from 10 per cent to 11 per cent.
Adelaide last year also lost its crown as the most commuter-friendly car city in peak hour. A one-hour round-trip in non-peak-hour Adelaide traffic increases by 26 minutes in peak hour. In Perth, this figure is 25 minutes. Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Local Government Stephan Knoll said the government had plans to ease traffic congestion. This included changes which began on June 1 to fine road works companies up to $50,000 for causing undue delays by their works, including by leaving signs erected when there were no workers present. “The upgrades to the North-South Corridor and our GlobeLink plan will help divert freight trucks and trains off other metropolitan roads and rail lines, easing traffic congestion,” he said.
RAA spokesman Charles Mountain said infrastructure upgrades were the key to improving travel times. “Our 2017 survey showed that the slowest routes were Main North Rd, Greenhill Rd, Grange Rd, Unley Rd, Prospect Rd and Marion Rd,’’ he said. “Trams crossing on Marion Rd near Cross Rd contributed to congestion on this route due to regular activation and the Transport Department is looking at options for this route.
“The planned grade separation on Diagonal Rd near Morphett Rd will also reduce congestion on this route caused by regular level crossing activations.
“The need for the north-south corridor to be completed is highlighted as this will reduce pressure on Marion Rd and Goodwood Rd both of which have seen travel times slow.”
Source
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 319273dc79
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1647 Post by claybro » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Interestingly, 9million light rail trips using 1 line, compared to 14million train trips on 5 lines. Goes to show how popular light rail can be, or how badly run the train network is. Also wonder if the light rail numbers include the free trips within the CBD and how they might calculate this with no ticketing data.
Haso wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm

and this...
“There needs to be safe, cheap and abundant parking at public transport hubs in the suburbs,” Ms Bucchorn said.
How about there needs to be transport hubs in the suburbs....there are precious few true transport hubs in Adelaide at present, which could be part of the overall problem.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1648 Post by [Shuz] » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:46 pm

9 million trips for one tram route in a city of our site is pretty impressive. Surely this helps the argument for more tram routes / extensions. It's not the white elephant the Advertiser makes it out to be.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1649 Post by Eurostar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:05 pm

Only problem with park n ride in suburbs is that they create congestion in the area around the park n ride, it also means routes like 557 get barely used because everyone just drives to paradise or modbury.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Service & Policy

#1650 Post by claybro » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:13 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:05 pm
Only problem with park n ride in suburbs is that they create congestion in the area around the park n ride, it also means routes like 557 get barely used because everyone just drives to paradise or modbury.
Transport hubs do not necessarily mean park n ride...they can be bus/train interchanges, including shops and associated infrastructure, but yes they are often associated with park n ride.

Also back to the 9 million trips per year on Adelaide light rail (Glenelg Tram)...it kind of compares favourably with the Obahn, whose fanbois on here claim to be the best and most popular form of transport ever devised.

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