[U/C] Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

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wilkiebarkid
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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#706 Post by wilkiebarkid » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:22 pm

This development, and that of the Adelaide Oval Hotel are not increasing the existing developed footprint. IF either of them carved into more greenspace, then surely that would be the time to have a justifiable whinge.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#707 Post by bits » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:53 pm

wilkiebarkid wrote:This development, and that of the Adelaide Oval Hotel are not increasing the existing developed footprint. IF either of them carved into more greenspace, then surely that would be the time to have a justifiable whinge.
The plaza was a public park even if concrete.
The public were welcome to enjoy the space for non commercially viable activities.

The space changing to generic private company space for generic business purposes that could be done on other land without issue is not the same as it was.

Same for the Adelaide Oval Hotel.
Adelaide Oval Hotel could be built on Pennington and/or Palmer. But that would cost too much no doubt.

The only reason there is land free for these is because previous generations successfully reserved it to not be used for this.
What generation will not have the luxury of just bleeding another chunk for a trendy idea because there is no more to bleed.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#708 Post by wilkiebarkid » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:11 pm

bits wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:53 pm
wilkiebarkid wrote:This development, and that of the Adelaide Oval Hotel are not increasing the existing developed footprint. IF either of them carved into more greenspace, then surely that would be the time to have a justifiable whinge.
The plaza was a public park even if concrete.
The public were welcome to enjoy the space for non commercially viable activities.

The space changing to generic private company space for generic business purposes that could be done on other land without issue is not the same as it was.

Same for the Adelaide Oval Hotel.
Adelaide Oval Hotel could be built on Pennington and/or Palmer. But that would cost too much no doubt.

The only reason there is land free for these is because previous generations successfully reserved it to not be used for this.
What generation will not have the luxury of just bleeding another chunk for a trendy idea because there is no more to bleed.
Maybe you haven't seen the designs for these developments yet, but the Festival Centre Plaza area is being upgraded into a more attractive, destination, activity space than the original 'NOTHING' before.

The opponents to the Hotel will be silent when it proves to be a commercial, tourist luring success, creating more than 100 jobs.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#709 Post by Waewick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:21 pm

wilkiebarkid wrote:
bits wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:53 pm
wilkiebarkid wrote:This development, and that of the Adelaide Oval Hotel are not increasing the existing developed footprint. IF either of them carved into more greenspace, then surely that would be the time to have a justifiable whinge.
The plaza was a public park even if concrete.
The public were welcome to enjoy the space for non commercially viable activities.

The space changing to generic private company space for generic business purposes that could be done on other land without issue is not the same as it was.

Same for the Adelaide Oval Hotel.
Adelaide Oval Hotel could be built on Pennington and/or Palmer. But that would cost too much no doubt.

The only reason there is land free for these is because previous generations successfully reserved it to not be used for this.
What generation will not have the luxury of just bleeding another chunk for a trendy idea because there is no more to bleed.
Maybe you haven't seen the designs for these developments yet, but the Festival Centre Plaza area is being upgraded into a more attractive, destination, activity space than the original 'NOTHING' before.

The opponents to the Hotel will be silent when it proves to be a commercial, tourist luring success, creating more than 100 jobs.
The profitability of the hotel isn't the issue they have.

It's the use a free land for commercial benefit. Let's face it the AO are getting a huge free kick. They should be forced to pay a commercial rent at a rate that reflects the unique spot.

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[U/C] [U/C] [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#710 Post by bits » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:36 pm


wilkiebarkid wrote: Maybe you haven't seen the designs for these developments yet, but the Festival Centre Plaza area is being upgraded into a more attractive, destination, activity space than the original 'NOTHING' before.

The opponents to the Hotel will be silent when it proves to be a commercial, tourist luring success, creating more than 100 jobs.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?stor ... 1769437836

Architecturally designed park is 'NOTHING'?

Adelaide is full of private businesses that are commercial and tourist success stories that employ plenty of people. OTR fits all those, should we build one on war memorial drive?


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[U/C] Re: [U/C] [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#711 Post by wilkiebarkid » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:23 pm

bits wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:36 pm
wilkiebarkid wrote: Maybe you haven't seen the designs for these developments yet, but the Festival Centre Plaza area is being upgraded into a more attractive, destination, activity space than the original 'NOTHING' before.

The opponents to the Hotel will be silent when it proves to be a commercial, tourist luring success, creating more than 100 jobs.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?stor ... 1769437836

Architecturally designed park is 'NOTHING'?

Adelaide is full of private businesses that are commercial and tourist success stories that employ plenty of people. OTR fits all those, should we build one on war memorial drive?
Bits, there was nothing there to attract locals or tourists, but the redevelopments, not raping any more of the park lands, aim to turn this space into something akin to Melbourne's Federation Square. No blade of grass will be lost FFS.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#712 Post by bits » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:51 pm


wilkiebarkid wrote: No blade of grass will be lost FFS.
I don't give a toss about grass.That land hasn't seen grass for a very long time. Before the festival plaza it was a public pool.
I do care about Adelaide having space for public use and for private business to compete fairly.

https://www.facebook.com/adelaiderememb ... 78/?type=3

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#713 Post by crawf » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:54 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:04 pm
crawf wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:05 pm
As much as they are unique asset, the parklands have been a hindrance to Adelaide's growth. Especially when it comes to this mob.
That's a bullshit excuse... There are plenty of places that could be developed in the CBD and inner city suburbs. That's like saying heritage is a hindrance on Adelaide's growth when as it has been mentioned on other threads, there are plenty of dilapidated and disused sites in the CBD that could be used for development. Based on your comment, you would have Adelaide become sterile by removing its most prized asset that sets it apart from everywhere else in the world.
What are you on about?. I'm not advocating development on the parklands.

I love the parklands, so much untapped potential. Though I've been on this forum for nearly 13 years and the one issue that constantly gets raised is the parklands. From the Victoria Park saga, the busway tunnel, Britannia Roundabout, hosting events to even the simple thing of upgrading a change room and lighting. Whinging after whinging, it's so fucking tiresome.

They are a unique asset and should most definitely be protected, though they shouldn't hold the city to ransom.

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[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#714 Post by rev » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:01 am

Let's remember what was there....
Image

And what's replacing it....
Image


Personally I don't think an office tower belongs there. I've mentioned what I'd like to have seen happen with the whole riverbank precinct numerous times before, wont mention it again.
I'm not a big fan of the new design of the plaza, but those are just renders and personal taste.. who knows, it might turn out alright.
But one things for sure, it is a massive improvement on what was there. It will become, imho, a much used location during the festival season. The onus will be on the operators of those businesses/venues that move in to the plaza to keep them pumping and afloat during the rest of the year.

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#715 Post by rev » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:05 am

crawf wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:54 pm
Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:04 pm
crawf wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:05 pm
As much as they are unique asset, the parklands have been a hindrance to Adelaide's growth. Especially when it comes to this mob.
That's a bullshit excuse... There are plenty of places that could be developed in the CBD and inner city suburbs. That's like saying heritage is a hindrance on Adelaide's growth when as it has been mentioned on other threads, there are plenty of dilapidated and disused sites in the CBD that could be used for development. Based on your comment, you would have Adelaide become sterile by removing its most prized asset that sets it apart from everywhere else in the world.
What are you on about?. I'm not advocating development on the parklands.

I love the parklands, so much untapped potential. Though I've been on this forum for nearly 13 years and the one issue that constantly gets raised is the parklands. From the Victoria Park saga, the busway tunnel, Britannia Roundabout, hosting events to even the simple thing of upgrading a change room and lighting. Whinging after whinging, it's so fucking tiresome.

They are a unique asset and should most definitely be protected, though they shouldn't hold the city to ransom.
Agreed mostly.
But on the contrary, fuck the parklands, if a patch of parkland isn't being utilized to it's fullest potential as parkland and nobody has any intention of doing so, then do something with it.
But who do you guys expect to upgrade and then maintain the parklands? The city council? Pfftt, good luck. The government? Labor will blow millions on nothing, and the Liberals will cut funding and impact maintenance services.

It's ironic that the Council opposes parkland developments, the APPA lunatics oppose developments, even the building of a permanent facility on a section of parkland that is already a giant concrete slab, but somehow both groups don't seem to have a problem with redeveloping the golf course by building a club house and function facilities.
Self interest groups is what they are.
Both should be abolished and run out of town.

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#716 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:38 am

rev wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:05 am
Agreed mostly.
But on the contrary, fuck the parklands, if a patch of parkland isn't being utilized to it's fullest potential as parkland and nobody has any intention of doing so, then do something with it.
If that had been the attitude for the last century then there would be no parklands apart from a few pockets like the Botanic Gardens.

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#717 Post by bits » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:37 pm

To park land or to not park land is the question.

Many seem to think we should just view it as vacant land to be used for whatever. 180 years of blocking generic commericial use all so the generation in 2018 has spare vacant CBD land to put generic business on.

The 2018 guys must feel so entitled that they were the chosen ones the land was reserved all this time for. So many generations through sickness, depressions and recessions just waiting for you to come along and have a free kick during good times.

Seems like such a stupid waste of 180 years of effort til now to just say it was all for nothing.

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#718 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:52 pm

I was a kid when the "old" festival plaza was new. As boring as it might have looked to some people, I was the age that climbing on the pedestals and jumping from one to the next was a fun part of a day in the city. It looks like I must have left my parents sitting in the sun watching, so clearly some improvements could have been made, but to say it was boring and sterile is unfair too.

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#719 Post by rhino » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:07 am

wilkiebarkid wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:11 pm
EVERYTHING on the northern side of North Terrace is in the Park Lands. I have a copy of Light's original plan and back then he didn't factor in the Railways, Museum, Library, University, Art Gallery etc. He drew a spot for Government House, a hospital in the east park lands, army barracks, storage facility and not much else.
Actually, the plan was not Light's (contrary to popular belief). It was George Strickland Kingston's plan, drawn up in England in 1835. The parklands were James Hurtle Fisher's idea and were included in the plan. Light was chief surveyor and laid out the City of Adelaide at the site chosen by Kingston and Fisher (Light's preference was Holdfast Bay), but lacked the ability to design the city, and never claimed to have done so.
cheers,
Rhino

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[U/C] Re: Festival Plaza Redevelopment | $800 million

#720 Post by rhino » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:11 am

bits wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:37 pm
To park land or to not park land is the question.

Many seem to think we should just view it as vacant land to be used for whatever. 180 years of blocking generic commericial use all so the generation in 2018 has spare vacant CBD land to put generic business on.

The 2018 guys must feel so entitled that they were the chosen ones the land was reserved all this time for. So many generations through sickness, depressions and recessions just waiting for you to come along and have a free kick during good times.

Seems like such a stupid waste of 180 years of effort til now to just say it was all for nothing.
This /\ /\.
The parklands can be utilized better as parklands, but just because they're not, right now, does not mean they should be given over to non-park for-profit development that will not be open to the public.
cheers,
Rhino

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