Whyalla | Developments & News

Developments in Regional South Australia. Including Port Lincoln, Victor Harbor, Wallaroo, Gawler and Mount Barker.
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Raider
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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#61 Post by Raider » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:52 am

If the jobs are there for it, the population growth may not be fanciful. With this expansion though, let's hope a public transport system is also planned for. A tram system might be a good solution for a moderately sized city like that. Also, planning for a good rail connection to Adelaide should be undertaken.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#62 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:35 am

Fantastic news, although I would hope that level of population growth isn't all dependent on the steelworks (if it is then Whyalla could find itself in much the same situation 30 years from now if the plant closes/downscales).

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#63 Post by Bob » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm

All political parties really need to get an agreement and start moving quickly on ensuring national / regional rail network upgrades by building the new northern connector direct rail link from Dry Creek to Malalla, build the new rail bypass from Murray Bridge to Malalla, upgrade the existing rail link via Port Pirie & Port Augusta to Whyalla to allow higher speed running.

The need to move freight, passengers and lots of ore is going to increase dramatically if all the activity earmarked by Gupta and others comes to fruition. There is a new Iron Ore mine planned near the SA/NSW border, several new copper finds/mines around Prominent Hill, Olympic Dam and surrounds, a new Copper Smelter speculated, multiple renewable energy projects earmarked amongst other projects planned, and so it goes on.

Combined population of Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla could easily exceed 100,000 even on conservative estimates within the decade, those people will need a fast regional rail service to Adelaide like Victoria Regional Rail.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#64 Post by SBD » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:51 am

Bob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm
All political parties really need to get an agreement and start moving quickly on ensuring national / regional rail network upgrades by building the new northern connector direct rail link from Dry Creek to Malalla, build the new rail bypass from Murray Bridge to Malalla, upgrade the existing rail link via Port Pirie & Port Augusta to Whyalla to allow higher speed running.

The need to move freight, passengers and lots of ore is going to increase dramatically if all the activity earmarked by Gupta and others comes to fruition. There is a new Iron Ore mine planned near the SA/NSW border, several new copper finds/mines around Prominent Hill, Olympic Dam and surrounds, a new Copper Smelter speculated, multiple renewable energy projects earmarked amongst other projects planned, and so it goes on.

Combined population of Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla could easily exceed 100,000 even on conservative estimates within the decade, those people will need a fast regional rail service to Adelaide like Victoria Regional Rail.
Who's responsibility should it be to pay for a new railway line to transport ore from a new mine to an export or processing facility? I would think it should be mostly the responsibility of the mine owner, the same as the current iron ore railways supplying Whyalla and Port Hedland. Government should be doing regulation, but not building railways in advance of a possible mine development. If the railway has potential passenger use or other freight as well, then it could be government owned, but should still be primarily funded by the main beneficiary. Road upgrades for mining and industry are also primarily funded by the business that needs it (such as access roads to wind farms to deliver concrete and parts).

If increased rail traffic requires significant upgrades to the existing routes to increase capacity, then they might be appropriate to be funded by the Government (but probably Federal Government). Examples might be more passing loops north of Port Augusta or building the GlobeLink Murray Bridge to Mallala bypass.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#65 Post by HiTouch » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:47 pm

waiting on a comment from ghs. If I were a bird, he'd be a a heavy boulder around my neck.
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:55 am
If the parklands are so important why dont they put it to a vote state wide? Or are they afraid the majority will back this hotel..

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#66 Post by rhino » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:03 am

In Western Australia a few years ago (when the mining boom was in full swing), new iron ore deposits were being discovered in what they refer to as the Mid-West. Alanah McTiernen, their Transport Minister, made it clear that ore could not be moved to port using the road network, in effect forcing the mining companies to build a railway to the new Oakagee port if they wanted to export. Not sure how that unfolded, as the mining boom came to an inglorious and quick end.
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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#67 Post by new improved ghs » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:55 am

HiTouch wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:47 pm
waiting on a comment from ghs. If I were a bird, he'd be a a heavy boulder around my neck.
I actually really love Whyalla and can't wait to see these plans come to fruition - this will be so great for our fantastic State :D :D :D
Well done to our hard-working politicians from all sides :applause:

I really love you HiTouch. Merry Christmas to all, drinks are on me! :cheers:

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#68 Post by Bob » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:17 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:51 am
Bob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm
All political parties really need to get an agreement and start moving quickly on ensuring national / regional rail network upgrades by building the new northern connector direct rail link from Dry Creek to Malalla, build the new rail bypass from Murray Bridge to Malalla, upgrade the existing rail link via Port Pirie & Port Augusta to Whyalla to allow higher speed running.

The need to move freight, passengers and lots of ore is going to increase dramatically if all the activity earmarked by Gupta and others comes to fruition. There is a new Iron Ore mine planned near the SA/NSW border, several new copper finds/mines around Prominent Hill, Olympic Dam and surrounds, a new Copper Smelter speculated, multiple renewable energy projects earmarked amongst other projects planned, and so it goes on.

Combined population of Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla could easily exceed 100,000 even on conservative estimates within the decade, those people will need a fast regional rail service to Adelaide like Victoria Regional Rail.
Who's responsibility should it be to pay for a new railway line to transport ore from a new mine to an export or processing facility? I would think it should be mostly the responsibility of the mine owner, the same as the current iron ore railways supplying Whyalla and Port Hedland. Government should be doing regulation, but not building railways in advance of a possible mine development. If the railway has potential passenger use or other freight as well, then it could be government owned, but should still be primarily funded by the main beneficiary. Road upgrades for mining and industry are also primarily funded by the business that needs it (such as access roads to wind farms to deliver concrete and parts).

If increased rail traffic requires significant upgrades to the existing routes to increase capacity, then they might be appropriate to be funded by the Government (but probably Federal Government). Examples might be more passing loops north of Port Augusta or building the GlobeLink Murray Bridge to Mallala bypass.
Understand if a railway line is required only for moving ore from mine to port as in NW WA that should be funded by the mining company, however in SA the regional/national rail network does more, and that’s where my point is being aimed at.

For example the SA Govt funded the Port Pirie to NSW border railway in the late 19th century, Broken Hill ore has been transported by rail on a daily basis for over 125 years to Port Pirie for smelting and shipping. Without the Broken Hill ore traffic that railway line would not have been built past SA’s agricultural area at the time. Also Broken Hill required the line for importing materials for both the mines and its people, so it works both ways.

The intensive copper region in northern SA should have a rail line built to join the region to main EW rail line at Pimba. If the line is to be used for both general purposes and transporting copper ore, then a joint government-private partnership makes sense.

The Highway from Port Wakefield to Port Augusta is in worse condition today then the 1980’s due to intensive heavy road haulage stuffing the road, it makes sense to get as much of that freight onto rail wherever possible, and including the Melbourne-Perth road haulage, upgraded rail networks can do that. Otherwise Governments will never keep up with the funding required to fix broken main highways being ruined on a daily basis.

I could go into many more actual examples and funding comparison but I think you get the point I was trying to make.

If Upper Spencer Gulf freight requirements are to increase dramatically, upgrading the rail network MUST be part of the plan, otherwise having extensive heavy road haulage is going to be a very costly exercise in the long run.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#69 Post by SBD » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:49 pm

We have very little regional rail network left, and even less of it used to move freight IN to the regional areas. As far as I know, there is not regular (non-ore) freight in to Whyalla. Some of the parts for the Bungala Solar Farm were transported by rail, but we have no regional intermodal depots. Coles run a road train every night from the Edinburgh warehouse to Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla. That's significant road traffic, but even aggregating with the competing brands and other products, it still only looks like a small train and needs extra handling at each end.

The railway to Loxton has stopped operating (and it only carried bulk grain for a long time), but the roads have been upgraded and/or reclassified to permit road trains from the Loxton silos to Outer Harbor. Road trains are also now permitted between Mount Gambier and Bordertown to Murray Bridge, and Bordertown to Loxton.

Unfortunately, the drivers that created the rail network 100-150 years ago in an age without significant roads and motorised road vehicles are no longer significant since the roads have developed.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#70 Post by Aidan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:03 am

SBD wrote:We have very little regional rail network left, and even less of it used to move freight IN to the regional areas. As far as I know, there is not regular (non-ore) freight in to Whyalla. Some of the parts for the Bungala Solar Farm were transported by rail, but we have no regional intermodal depots. Coles run a road train every night from the Edinburgh warehouse to Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla. That's significant road traffic, but even aggregating with the competing brands and other products, it still only looks like a small train and needs extra handling at each end.

The railway to Loxton has stopped operating (and it only carried bulk grain for a long time),
AN made the mistake of cutting back lines in the Riverland, thinking an intermodal terminal at Loxton would be sufficient. But once the freight was on a truck, it was better for the customers just to truck it all the way to Adelaide.

Does anyone still operate RoadRailers in this state? Those would probably be the cheapest way to start getting freight onto rail.
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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#71 Post by SBD » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:54 am

Aidan wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:03 am
SBD wrote:We have very little regional rail network left, and even less of it used to move freight IN to the regional areas. As far as I know, there is not regular (non-ore) freight in to Whyalla. Some of the parts for the Bungala Solar Farm were transported by rail, but we have no regional intermodal depots. Coles run a road train every night from the Edinburgh warehouse to Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla. That's significant road traffic, but even aggregating with the competing brands and other products, it still only looks like a small train and needs extra handling at each end.

The railway to Loxton has stopped operating (and it only carried bulk grain for a long time),
AN made the mistake of cutting back lines in the Riverland, thinking an intermodal terminal at Loxton would be sufficient. But once the freight was on a truck, it was better for the customers just to truck it all the way to Adelaide.

Does anyone still operate RoadRailers in this state? Those would probably be the cheapest way to start getting freight onto rail.
Unfortunately, I think the horse may have bolted.

The rail infrastructure would be different today if the Morgan railway (1878) had been extended to meet the Barmera railway (1928), and the Morkalla railway (1931) had continued west to meet it at Taldra. Then we would have a link that is not as winding through the Adelaide Hills, and provides a link between Adelaide and Melbourne via Kapunda, the Riverland, Sunraysia, and either Ballarat or Bendigo. Incremental upgrades over the years would improve it without any of them needing huge expenditure at one time.

Road Railers are an interesting option to make a small train work, as the destinations in the Iron Triangle cities would be fairly close to the railyard I think. I don't think I've seen them for quite a while.

The problem with the Loxton route I imagine was that the track was not maintained or upgraded to provide faster trains in the Mallee, combined with the winding Hills route. A driver could have dropped off the load in Loxton, watched it loaded and depart, then drive to Adelaide with a lunch break on the way and still have to wait for the load to arrive.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#72 Post by rhino » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:06 am

SBD wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:54 am
Road Railers are an interesting option to make a small train work, as the destinations in the Iron Triangle cities would be fairly close to the railyard I think. I don't think I've seen them for quite a while.
I remember talking to a career railwayman who was a mate of mine, way back when roadrailers were more common. He explained that in order to be part of a train and cope with the stresses of the weight of the train behind it, roadrailers were waaay over-engineered (read too heavy) for the road, which caused road components of the truck and trailer to wear out quicker (engines, brakes, tyres, suspension, etc), and caused damage to roads. Perhaps this is why they didn't last.
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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#73 Post by SBD » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:25 am

rhino wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:06 am
SBD wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:54 am
Road Railers are an interesting option to make a small train work, as the destinations in the Iron Triangle cities would be fairly close to the railyard I think. I don't think I've seen them for quite a while.
I remember talking to a career railwayman who was a mate of mine, way back when roadrailers were more common. He explained that in order to be part of a train and cope with the stresses of the weight of the train behind it, roadrailers were waaay over-engineered (read too heavy) for the road, which caused road components of the truck and trailer to wear out quicker (engines, brakes, tyres, suspension, etc), and caused damage to roads. Perhaps this is why they didn't last.
That is probably true for general road use, but would it be as significant problem if the end trips were only short such as needed for groceries and furniture within the towns at Port Pirie, Port Augusta, Whyalla. The Adelaide end could be from warehouses and factories in the northern suburbs (Ingham and Coles at Edinburgh, Barossa Fine Foods and Drake from next year at Edinburgh North, Treasury Wine at Penfield) to the Penfield Intermodal terminal. Essentially it is being used as shipping containers with wheels, the same as semi trailers are now, and hopefully can be connected/disconnected far faster than loading and unloading containers. Back loads could include tomatoes from Sundrop Farms.

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Re: Whyalla | Developments & News

#74 Post by HiTouch » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:42 am

new improved ghs wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:55 am
HiTouch wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:47 pm
waiting on a comment from ghs. If I were a bird, he'd be a a heavy boulder around my neck.
I actually really love Whyalla and can't wait to see these plans come to fruition - this will be so great for our fantastic State :D :D :D
Well done to our hard-working politicians from all sides :applause:

I really love you HiTouch. Merry Christmas to all, drinks are on me! :cheers:
Oh what a pleasant surprise. I'm chuffed with this. :)
rev wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:55 am
If the parklands are so important why dont they put it to a vote state wide? Or are they afraid the majority will back this hotel..

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