News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

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SBD
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#601 Post by SBD » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:35 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 pm
Council pipedreams......where are some numbers from the council? At least a guestimate of the number of people to use the new service?

The DPTI would have the true numbers of people commuting from the inner north to the inner east via Metrocard/Metroticket validations.
I doubt this justifies a new bus route (especially at a time when Knoll is looking to cut the number of under-performing bus routes).

Adelaide is a CBD centric/radial city.....good service into the CBD and out again is the most practical solution to cross-suburban travel via public transport.
DPTI can't use ticket validation to identify journey endpoints as we don't swipe to get off the bus/train.

Unfortunately, the success or otherwise of a route like this could take years to be visible. Present demand will be met by a few people doing the long-way-round bus trip, some using private cars and some cycling. The potential demand requires people to move house, change jobs or shopping habits, or leave the car home.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#602 Post by Llessur2002 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:23 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:35 pm
DPTI can't use ticket validation to identify journey endpoints as we don't swipe to get off the bus/train.
No, but wouldn't the transfer from an east-west service onto a northbound service once the CBD has been reached be a fairly good indicator? Especially for east-west services arriving in Grenfell Street, from which most commuters would not transfer onto a northbound service for anything other than a trip back out of the CBD (or into North Adelaide).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#603 Post by SBD » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:30 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:23 pm
SBD wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:35 pm
DPTI can't use ticket validation to identify journey endpoints as we don't swipe to get off the bus/train.
No, but wouldn't the transfer from an east-west service onto a northbound service once the CBD has been reached be a fairly good indicator? Especially for east-west services arriving in Grenfell Street, from which most commuters would not transfer onto a northbound service for anything other than a trip back out of the CBD (or into North Adelaide).
True, but you can't tell if they went to North Adelaide, Walkerville or Ingle Farm, which makes a difference for cross-suburb services from Norwood.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#604 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:08 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:05 pm
Norwood, Payneham & St Peters Council proposing new bus route to link inner north with east
Ben Cameron, Eastern Courier Messenger
26 minutes ago
Subscriber only

Adelaide’s tram network expansion backed by Federal Labor
Segways, Uber-style buses could become part of transport system

A new congestion-busting bus service connecting the inner northern suburbs with the east side of town will be proposed to the State Government.

Norwood, Payneham & St Peters Council will write to the Transport Minister Stephan Knoll seeking a feasibility study into the potential introduction of the new route

It could run, the council says, off North East Rd and Nottage Tce, Medindie Gardens, to Kensington Rd, along Stephen Tce, Nelson St and Osmond Tce.

Spearheading the push, Mayor Robert Bria said almost all bus routes in NP&SP ran in an east-west direction, and in and out of the Adelaide CBD.

“To go from North East Rd to Currie St to The Parade can take up to 40 minutes,” Mr Bria said.

“Cutting it to about 12 to 15 minutes would be ideal.”

With the former Caroma site on Magill Rd poised to make way for a seven-storey development and up to 200 residential apartments, traffic would increase on Magill Rd, Nelson St and Osmond Tce.

The new bus route had the potential to create more economic opportunities for businesses along Magill Rd and The Parade.

Mr Bria said a new bus route would also allow residents living in the inner north and working in the east to avoid taking a bus into the CBD and then another out again.

“The State Government is currently conducting a review on bus services so it makes sense to make this approach now, whilst consideration is being given to what a future public bus service will look like,” Mr Bria said.

Cr Sue Whitington agreed, saying it was an “excellent opportunity for consideration”, while Cr Christel Mex said a new bus route was “really needed” with “all the infill we’re having”.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 2ebff8b809
This is not a good proposal. Let's start with the current routes. To get from North East Rd to The Parade doesn't require going to Currie St, you can change at Grenfell St. It can easily take 40 minutes, when you add in the waiting times.

Image

Mr Bria's “12 to 15 minutes would be ideal,” proposal is not including the waiting time. People who don't take public transport have a difficult time understanding this. There is no analogy when driving a car, you just get in and drive, you don't have to wait for the car to arrive.

A direct bus from the north to the east would have much lower patronage than buses from the north to the city or the east to the city. So the bus from the north to the east would be infrequent. Let's be optimistic and say the route will be every half an hour (I don't think it even justifies that.) If you wait half an hour for this bus, add in “12 to 15 minutes" on the bus, you're up to over 40 minutes.

Improving the Existing Routes

The fact of the matter is we can't have buses going from anywhere to everywhere. The patronage on each individual route would be low, so the buses would be infrequent. The fact of the matter is that some people will need to change routes to get where they want to go. This is likely the case for passengers travelling between suburban locations.

Making the existing routes faster and more frequent will improve travel times for both those heading to the city and those on Mr Bria's route.

I think buses on The Parade are too infrequent. Google Maps says "every 15 minutes", but looking at the timetables, that's at the best times of day. Bring the frequency up to every 5 minutes and it improves the trip between the city to The Parade and Mr Bria's proposal.

Another idea is for buses from North East Rd to use the new O-Bahn tunnel, rather than driving through North Adelaide.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#605 Post by PeFe » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:17 pm

Another idea is for buses from North East Rd to use the new O-Bahn tunnel, rather than driving through North Adelaide.
Melbourne Street needs to be serviced by public transport (ie buses).....it is meant to a "destination street", mainly for food...or it was....

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#606 Post by rev » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 pm

PeFe wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:17 pm
Another idea is for buses from North East Rd to use the new O-Bahn tunnel, rather than driving through North Adelaide.
Melbourne Street needs to be serviced by public transport (ie buses).....it is meant to a "destination street", mainly for food...or it was....
Tram.


On the buses...if I wanted to go from Flinders Park to Brompton, it would take 55 minutes according to the metro trip planner. As opposed to 10 minutes by car.
Brompton to Henley Beach...63-74 minutes by bus. 19 minutes by car.

There's too many buses with nobody on them or under half a dozen people onboard. What a massive waste of money and resources. Scrap them as they are doing.
But they should be introducing bus ring routes. That would see less buses going into the City for people travelling outside of the city/cbd, which will ease congestion as well.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#607 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:14 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 pm

On the buses...if I wanted to go from Flinders Park to Brompton, it would take 55 minutes according to the metro trip planner. As opposed to 10 minutes by car.
Brompton to Henley Beach...63-74 minutes by bus. 19 minutes by car.

There's too many buses with nobody on them or under half a dozen people onboard. What a massive waste of money and resources. Scrap them as they are doing.
But they should be introducing bus ring routes. That would see less buses going into the City for people travelling outside of the city/cbd, which will ease congestion as well.
What do you expect for two random suburbs? You can't expect anywhere to have direct routes to everywhere.

I agree that there are too many buses going through the CBD. More should be connecting with train stations. There already is a ring route (https://adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/300), although I'd like to see it transformed into a grid.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#608 Post by rev » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:17 pm

Image

Oh, wow...

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#609 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:17 pm
Oh, wow...
Where did he take the bus to?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#610 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:17 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:14 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 pm

On the buses...if I wanted to go from Flinders Park to Brompton, it would take 55 minutes according to the metro trip planner. As opposed to 10 minutes by car.
Brompton to Henley Beach...63-74 minutes by bus. 19 minutes by car.

There's too many buses with nobody on them or under half a dozen people onboard. What a massive waste of money and resources. Scrap them as they are doing.
But they should be introducing bus ring routes. That would see less buses going into the City for people travelling outside of the city/cbd, which will ease congestion as well.
What do you expect for two random suburbs? You can't expect anywhere to have direct routes to everywhere.

I agree that there are too many buses going through the CBD. More should be connecting with train stations. There already is a ring route (https://adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/300), although I'd like to see it transformed into a grid.
Route 100 also does the west and south sides of a loop using Cross, Marion, Holbrooks Roads. If I read the timetables properly, the buses change to/from route 144 and go to/come from Grant Avenue along Portrush Road. I haven't tried to work out if the two routes connect meaningfully at Malvern for people wanting to switch between the western parts of the inner 100 and outer 300 loops.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#611 Post by SBD » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:43 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:17 pm
Oh, wow...
Where did he take the bus to?
Looking at his Twitter feed, he does claim he was catching that bus to Morphett Vale, Woodcroft, Flinders Medical which are not served by the train.

However, the twitter feed also shows him lamenting cuts to route 150 from Osborne by catching it with his Cheltenham colleague from Woodville railway station, and using the route 228 to Enfield to meet a candidate there. Google suggests that he would arrive at his destination with 2 minutes to spare after his 5-minute walk. If he had caught the 225 he would have had an extra 7 minutes to catch his breath. He also doesn't mention the plan to introduce additional 222 services to "maintain the go zone" in that area when the 228s are shortened to feed to Mawson Lakes instead of King William Street.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#612 Post by Eurostar » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:47 pm

Many years ago we had a good mix of city based routes and cross suburban routes nowadays its mainly city based, thats ok during peak hours but at other times people mainly just want to go from suburb to suburb.

361, good route but too infrequent
for a busy road, deviating this route via Dry Creek Station will allow connections with train services allowing people to travel via public transport rather than driving and it will help reduce congestion between Port Adelaide and Salisbury.

300 is a good route but at nights and weekends its too infrequent

100 is a good route but at nights and weekends its non existent or too infrequent

No route between Port Adelaide and Brighton via Tapleys Hill Road, a half hourly service will help reduce congestion along this corridor

J7/J8, good route but too infrequent for people wanting to get to the airport by bus, non existent on weekends

101, good route but too infrequent, no service on weekends

190 between Glenelg and Mitcham is too infrequent on weekends

320, good route but its duplicating with the G20 and G21 between Flinders Hospital and Aberfoyle Hub

Most of the northern and southern routes are hourly on weekends which doesn't make sense as many hospitality venues are busy on weekends

In the hills towns like Birdwood, Gumeracha, Lobethal and Woodside are popular on weekends and summer nights when events like the Lobethal Christmas Lights or Oakbank Races but there is no bus services

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#613 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:37 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:47 pm
No route between Port Adelaide and Brighton via Tapleys Hill Road, a half hourly service will help reduce congestion along this corridor
Adelaide's street network is a grid, yet the bus network doesn't function at all like a grid. Sure, the city is the most popular destination, but some of those routes are redundant. We need routes like the one you suggest.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#614 Post by TorrensSA » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:11 pm

Try going from Glenelg to Brighton after about 645pm - it takes between 40 and 70 mins it's 5km and there's no direct bus service at night the 265 terminates in Somerton Park after 645pm. It's quicker to walk then take half the options Google gives you, it would take about an hour to walk.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#615 Post by muzzamo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:40 am

TorrensSA wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:11 pm
Try going from Glenelg to Brighton after about 645pm - it takes between 40 and 70 mins it's 5km and there's no direct bus service at night the 265 terminates in Somerton Park after 645pm. It's quicker to walk then take half the options Google gives you, it would take about an hour to walk.
This is where services like uber, and the inevitable self-driving on-demand service that it will become, come in.

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