[U/C] North-South Motorway

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3976 Post by d3v310per » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:58 am

SBD wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:48 am
That shows that quite a bit of effort went into planning the MATS plan - it was not just a "big hands, small map" thought bubble before an election.

I wonder if anyone has done or is doing that level of planning for the North-South Motorway, GlobeLink hills bypass or links from the South Eastern Freeway to the North-South Motorway (either east and north of the city or south of it).
In this day and age, planning appears to be restricted to election cycles... and given SA's slow population growth there hasn't been any urgency to provide capacity for the future

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3977 Post by bits » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:18 pm

Are we suggesting the MATS plan is a poster child of how to run a city?
This has all come up because of the big picture large interchange designed in the MATS plan; it was never built.
Someone got paid big money to draw up a dream that was never built.
Is that the goal? Spend big dollars for big plans that never eventuate?

The original Adelaide CBD design got lucky that it works well in the car era. Who knows how well it works in the future. Maybe straight rows turns out bad for travel via gravity bending. Maybe travel isn't even the concern in 2070, maybe the problem is how to pump fresh air in.
There is a limit to how far out you plan. By the time you reach then, things have likely already changed and your plan is redundant.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3978 Post by muzzamo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:33 pm

(dupe)
Last edited by muzzamo on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3979 Post by muzzamo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:35 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:48 am
That shows that quite a bit of effort went into planning the MATS plan - it was not just a "big hands, small map" thought bubble before an election.

I wonder if anyone has done or is doing that level of planning for the North-South Motorway, GlobeLink hills bypass or links from the South Eastern Freeway to the North-South Motorway (either east and north of the city or south of it).
From memory they spent $6 Million on the plan for the North-South Motorway which basically broke it up into sections and attempted to prioritise the order of those sections (which has subsequently been ignored). I think this was specifically scoped not to include tunnels.

I think I read somewhere that they have funding of $60 million or thereabouts to do a plan to finish the entire corridor. It seems a lot but on a $5-$8Billion project its only 1% that is going into planning. I think a part of this is the current planning exercise is now re-scoping the tunnelling and looking at the whole thing in more detail.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3980 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm

Planning (for) the future of a city is a very difficult thing. The consensus is that, absolutely, we must plan. This is accurate.

At the same time, the opposite is also accurate: cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly. For example, the 30-Year Plan for Greater Adelaide. No planner in Adelaide was able to take it seriously.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3981 Post by SRW » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:03 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm
Planning (for) the future of a city is a very difficult thing. The consensus is that, absolutely, we must plan. This is accurate.

At the same time, the opposite is also accurate: cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly. For example, the 30-Year Plan for Greater Adelaide. No planner in Adelaide was able to take it seriously.
That's why such plans are reviewed every 5 years or so. The 30-year plan (last updated 2017) and ITULP (currently under review) are really best viewed as strategies -- something that guides and must be considered (as statutory elements of our new planning system) in all subsequent planning and development. At least everyone has an idea of where we're we should be headed (even if the path is not always followed) and why. And to better avoid past mistakes like ripping up tram lines.
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3982 Post by rhino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm

muzzamo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:35 pm
From memory they spent $6 Million on the plan for the North-South Motorway which basically broke it up into sections and attempted to prioritise the order of those sections (which has subsequently been ignored).
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm
cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if once a section of the motorway is completed, the order of priority for the next section changes as traffic changes due to the completion of that section.
cheers,
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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3983 Post by Goodsy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:59 pm

rhino wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm
muzzamo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:35 pm
From memory they spent $6 Million on the plan for the North-South Motorway which basically broke it up into sections and attempted to prioritise the order of those sections (which has subsequently been ignored).
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm
cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if once a section of the motorway is completed, the order of priority for the next section changes as traffic changes due to the completion of that section.
It's not hard for them to factor in those changes ahead of time. They obviously did when they decided to build the NExy and Superway before the Northern Connector

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3984 Post by rhino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:59 pm
rhino wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm
muzzamo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:35 pm
From memory they spent $6 Million on the plan for the North-South Motorway which basically broke it up into sections and attempted to prioritise the order of those sections (which has subsequently been ignored).
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm
cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if once a section of the motorway is completed, the order of priority for the next section changes as traffic changes due to the completion of that section.
It's not hard for them to factor in those changes ahead of time. They obviously did when they decided to build the NExy and Superway before the Northern Connector
Nexy was built to bypass the bottleneck through Elizabeth and Salibury.

The Superway was not going to be the next section built, but the Federal Government threw money at it because it would be the best thing for freight, at that time.

The Northern Connector then suddenly made more sense, and I think we were able to get more cash from the Federal Government, because it was also aimed at easing the interstate freight task.

The stages of the North-South Motorway through the suburbs is quite seperate to this, even though it will end up being one freeway in the end.
cheers,
Rhino

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3985 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:45 pm

SRW wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:03 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:04 pm
Planning (for) the future of a city is a very difficult thing. The consensus is that, absolutely, we must plan. This is accurate.

At the same time, the opposite is also accurate: cities are in a constant state of change and thus we cannot plan accordingly. For example, the 30-Year Plan for Greater Adelaide. No planner in Adelaide was able to take it seriously.
That's why such plans are reviewed every 5 years or so. The 30-year plan (last updated 2017) and ITULP (currently under review) are really best viewed as strategies -- something that guides and must be considered (as statutory elements of our new planning system) in all subsequent planning and development. At least everyone has an idea of where we're we should be headed (even if the path is not always followed) and why. And to better avoid past mistakes like ripping up tram lines.
Agree 100%.

Such strategies can guide investment and decision-making. The big weakness is that they are prone to politicisation. Maybe we as a collective simply need to be better at planning and executing necessary projects within political timeframes.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3986 Post by PD2/20 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:59 pm

kymbosa wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:34 pm
Just hearing that another wall has broken on the Darlington Road works this afternoon.
Having been through the trench since then, there doesn't seem to be any obvious signs of a recent collapse. However there is extensive remedial work going on between Flinders Dr and Sturt Rd on the eastern wall where complete sections of shotcrete have been removed and anchor bolts are being installed. Also similar work is also now occurring on one eastern wall section between Mimosa and Sturt.

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3987 Post by how good is he » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:26 pm

Just curious if anyone saw (or have pics) of anchors in the previous sections that collapsed? I didn’t, so I am wondering if that could have been the problem/oversight in the first place?

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3988 Post by andynguyen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:35 pm

Here's the map that I've drawn about a possible route for a freeway connection (in green) between North-South Motorway and South East Freeway, along with a possible rail alignment (in blue) through the Adelaide Hills. The underground sections are represented by broken lines.
Attachments
East west link Adelaide.png

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3989 Post by SBD » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 pm

andynguyen wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:35 pm
Here's the map that I've drawn about a possible route for a freeway connection (in green) between North-South Motorway and South East Freeway, along with a possible rail alignment (in blue) through the Adelaide Hills. The underground sections are represented by broken lines.
Your railway looks much shorter and straighter than the current alignment. How does its gradient compare?

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[U/C] Re: North-South Motorway

#3990 Post by Goodsy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm

SBD wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 pm
andynguyen wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:35 pm
Here's the map that I've drawn about a possible route for a freeway connection (in green) between North-South Motorway and South East Freeway, along with a possible rail alignment (in blue) through the Adelaide Hills. The underground sections are represented by broken lines.
Your railway looks much shorter and straighter than the current alignment. How does its gradient compare?
a casual 62% grade coming down in his underground section between Torrens Park Station and Sheoak Road

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