[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1651 Post by Nathan » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:47 pm

I'm glad to see it at least mentioned again, but yes, it needs to be the whole hog — realign the roads, the grand arbours, all of the planting. Whilst some work is better than none, Adelaide needs to stop fucking around with half arseing things. Better to do a few things properly than doing too many half baked projects. The other levels of government should be in on this too (as they should for all the parklands really).

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1652 Post by SRW » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:17 pm

Nathan wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:47 pm
The other levels of government should be in on this too (as they should for all the parklands really).
I think this is key, really. The parklands shouldn't be treated as the city council's sole responsibility as though they were some mere suburban park. They're the largest open space in metropolitan Adelaide and in many ways more akin to a national park for the enjoyment of all South Australians. Not only that, but given the state muscled in on their governance through the Parklands Act they ought at least provide an annual stipend. I recently read in the city council's asset management report that they predict a funding shortfall over the next 10 years of around $2.5 million each year. That's just to maintain and renew assets not build more. I don't know whatever happened to that $20 million parklands fund the previous government set aside 2 or so years ago, but it's again mentioned in the article with no clarity. Failing that being put to good use, maybe it's time to revive the old idea of adjacent properties in surrounding councils contributing for their parklands access via rate sharing (for parklands generally, not Vic Square).
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1653 Post by Joelmark » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:23 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:54 pm
SRW wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:29 pm
Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall Abiad as one of the councillors who were less than supportive of the project at the time. Either way, glad it's back on the agenda, even if still years away and likely to cost much more to fully achieve the masterplan than is being mooted below:
Abiad calls for fix to Victoria Square’s “ugly cousin”
Stephanie Richards, 16 September 2019, InDaily

Deputy Lord Mayor Houssam Abiad will push the city council to commit what he says will be about $15 million towards completing the half-finished Victoria Square redevelopment by 2026.

Abiad told InDaily he would meet with the council’s administration tomorrow to discuss a motion calling for funding to be secured by 2022 to redevelop the southern end of Victoria Square/Tarndanyangga.

If the motion garners support from the chamber, Abiad said it would be possible for construction to begin during the next council term, which ends in 2026.

The council revealed its masterplan for the square – initially touted as a $100 million project – in 2012, with then Lord Mayor Stephen Yarwood forecasting a $20 million spend on stage one of the redevelopment.

Read full article at InDaily...
It's actually a quarter finished square, spending $15m will mean that it is a half finished square... The State government really need to get their shit together and make this happen. $100m is a small price to pay for a civic space that won't require major works (at-least not funded by the state government) for another 50-100 years once the square is complete...
It's time for that five-yearly Adelaide thing - Victoria Square:
Adelaide City Council: "we need to fix Victoria Square; it's time for the State Government to step in".
State Government: "Victoria Square is a city council issue. We've already given them xxx for xxx".

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1654 Post by Eurostar » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:29 am

A handful of changes I'd like to see for Victoria Square area include:

1) Access to central roadway for buses only. Existing bus lane in central part returned to green space.

2) Move 222-229 bus terminus to F1 Wakefield Street or on south side of Wakefield Street. Replace south east roadway with green space.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1655 Post by SBD » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:19 pm

A "problem" for traffic management around Victoria Square is that Grote, Wakefield and King William Streets are wider (road reserve) than any other streets in the CBD, so it makes sense to funnel the traffic onto those streets rather than the nearby parallel ones. Grote and Wakefield Streets also have good connections across the parklands at the ends.

To avoid the political backlash of closing off the east-west connection, alternatives need to be provided. I'm surprised that Google Maps right now (middle of Tuesday) has travel via Greenhill Road only a minute or so longer than Victoria Square (between endpoints at the Britannia Roundabout and just past James Congdon Drive). 5pm departure makes the difference bigger.

I think I count 13 traffic lights across the middle and about 16 round the edge (counting pedestrian-activated sets). Upgrades at a few key intersections on the City Ring Route could make it the preferred choice to travel across the city. The problem with that would be that the intersections lost likely to need expanding are probably the ones with "landmark status" businesses on the corners that would require substantial compensation to be moved.

The balance might move a little if the City Council implements a 40km/h speed limit, too.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1656 Post by Eurostar » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:02 pm

I prefer the central roadway in its former setup as it meant pedestrians could cross within the square at 3 points, also buses actually stopping in the actual central roadway meant people could transfer from bus to tram or get off in the actual square rather than set down on the edge of it.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1657 Post by SRW » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:27 pm

Focus moves to Victoria Square’s southern space
26 September 2019, The Advertiser

AN upgrade of Victoria Square’s southern half will be revisited, in the hope the entire area does not look incomplete from outer space in the future.

It comes as some Adelaide City councillors questioned whether it should have a major upgrade at all.

The council on Tuesday night voted to have a workshop about the next stage of the project – part of a wider $100 million masterplan for the area – following a push from Deputy Lord Mayor Houssam Abiad.

Cr Abiad said the southern half should be looked at in conjunction with the upcoming Central Market Arcade so they could be interconnected.

He wanted detailed designs by the end of the council term in 2022 and hoped the square would not look incomplete from outer space in the future.

“With all the space stuff happening at the moment, people are going to be living on Mars and the moon, looking down on Adelaide and seeing … this little square that is incomplete,” Cr Abiad said.

An overhaul of the square’s northern section, which included an event space and water playground, started in March 2013 and finished in January the following year.

In 2013, the southern half was supposed to have a Kaurna cultural centre, cafe and bicycle hub created. Cr Jesse Khera called the northern side a “disaster” and preferred to retain the southern square as green open space.“I see (this workshop) as a precursor to an inexorable push to build more structures on what remains an unmolested part of Victoria Square,” Cr Khera said.
A few points:
  • glad there's movement on this
  • sad we have moronic councillors
  • the next stage should still be 'squaring the square', meaning cooperation with the state gov re: tram line
  • I'm open to revisiting the southern garden layout and Kaurna hub (which may be redundant with Marshall's gallery plan), but the arbour must be retained. That's the icon on which the masterplan hangs. If we don't finish this design, I think it'll be the third abandoned before completion since the 80s.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1658 Post by claybro » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 pm

SRW wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:27 pm
Focus moves to Victoria Square’s southern space
26 September 2019, The Advertiser

AN upgrade of Victoria Square’s southern half will be revisited, in the hope the entire area does not look incomplete from outer space in the future.

It comes as some Adelaide City councillors questioned whether it should have a major upgrade at all.

The council on Tuesday night voted to have a workshop about the next stage of the project – part of a wider $100 million masterplan for the area – following a push from Deputy Lord Mayor Houssam Abiad.

Cr Abiad said the southern half should be looked at in conjunction with the upcoming Central Market Arcade so they could be interconnected.

He wanted detailed designs by the end of the council term in 2022 and hoped the square would not look incomplete from outer space in the future.

“With all the space stuff happening at the moment, people are going to be living on Mars and the moon, looking down on Adelaide and seeing … this little square that is incomplete,” Cr Abiad said.

An overhaul of the square’s northern section, which included an event space and water playground, started in March 2013 and finished in January the following year.

In 2013, the southern half was supposed to have a Kaurna cultural centre, cafe and bicycle hub created. Cr Jesse Khera called the northern side a “disaster” and preferred to retain the southern square as green open space.“I see (this workshop) as a precursor to an inexorable push to build more structures on what remains an unmolested part of Victoria Square,” Cr Khera said.
A few points:
  • glad there's movement on this
  • sad we have moronic councillors
  • the next stage should still be 'squaring the square', meaning cooperation with the state gov re: tram line
  • I'm open to revisiting the southern garden layout and Kaurna hub (which may be redundant with Marshall's gallery plan), but the arbour must be retained. That's the icon on which the masterplan hangs. If we don't finish this design, I think it'll be the third abandoned before completion since the 80s.
Added to those points...What is Cr Abiad smoking?
Have to kind agree with Cr Khera though, the Northern end is a bit "overdeveloped"IMO,-(does that terraced benching ever get used?) and more green open space is desirable.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1659 Post by Mpol03 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:37 pm

Okay fine but finish the dam thing. Don’t leave it as it is it’s shocking.

Also see people using them all the time. I really like the design of the north side. Let’s finish it.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1660 Post by rev » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:03 am

They should close the road that cuts through the middle of the square, making it one large continuous public space.
That's one less set of traffic lights that motorists have to wait for.
On top of finishing the southern half of the square, they should also via government perhaps, do something about the surrounding buildings which are abysmal.
Other cities around the world seem to manage to improve public spaces and their surrounds, why can't we.
The Hilton, it's ugly sibling across the road, that monstrosity green building next to that, the Flinders Uni building and the treasury building next to that, Wakefield house, the disgusting addition behind the town hall, the Polites building and the small building next to it, the Commonwealth bank building, Telstra and that grey six sided building just across the road from Telstra.
How in the hell is Hilton happy with that building? Casinos that make billions annually in Vegas have been closed by their owners, demolished, and rebuilt.

And the corner sections of the "square" REALLY need to be looked at as well. Everyone focuses on the diamond section, but forgets there's four corner sections that haven't been touched yet.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1661 Post by SRW » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:15 am

rev wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:03 am
And the corner sections of the "square" REALLY need to be looked at as well. Everyone focuses on the diamond section, but forgets there's four corner sections that haven't been touched yet.
That's what the 'squaring the square' stage of the masterplan was meant to do -- move the roadways to the perimeter and reincorporate those little corner triangles into the diamond to create a larger, more usable square.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1662 Post by Patrick_27 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:57 am

Agreed with all of the points raised. I think squaring the square should be the next focus... It's the best way to get the State government involved and committed to finishing off the entire masterplan within a suitable timeframe and if the ACC were to only work on the southern half, it's only going to require more work to be done when they do eventually square it up because more land will then be added from those little pockets.

Also agree with Rev about removing the road in the middle, people can argue that it's an inconvenience to motorists but it's such a minor disruption that people will soon forget and the longterm benefits outweigh the travel time saved for motorists.

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