New Adelaide public transport hub

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andynguyen
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New Adelaide public transport hub

#1 Post by andynguyen » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:15 pm

Currently we have suburban trains using Adelaide Railway Station, interstate trains using the Parklands Terminal, long distance buses using the bus station at Franklin Street and a lack of a dedicated suburban bus interchange for Adelaide city.

Somehow there must be a way to provide all those services under the one roof. It's what Melbourne does. It's what Sydney does. It's what Brisbane does. And it's what many other major cities in the world does. This is where a new public transport hub could come into play.

The new public transport hub would include a new train station at the triangular rail junction west of the Riverbank precinct. This concept is similar to a number of train stations in the UK. In Adelaide's case, you could have interstate trains at one end, northern and southern suburbs trains at another end (as part of a future underground rail link) and trains to the Adelaide Hills at a third end. A relocated interstate rail station would provide visitors with a more welcoming scenery of Adelaide and ease of access.

This new public transport hub could be completed in stages, with the vast majority of works part of Stage 1. The train station component would initially have 6 platforms, with provisions for expansion to 9 platforms with the introduction of regional rail in South Australia, then to 11 platforms with the introduction of high speed rail linking Adelaide with Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. The ultimate plan will see all regional and high speed interstate trains using one side of the train station, with the required check in, boarding and security facilities.

Also in the pipeline is a new bus terminal for long distance buses and a separate interchange for suburban buses, which has the advantage of taking all long distance buses and, with plans for city tram loop and underground rail, some suburban buses away from the centre of Adelaide. There would be a new tram station with links to many different areas in inner and parts of middle Adelaide, and the existing Royal Adelaide Hospital helipad could be expanded to cater for flying taxis and commercial use, increasing utilisation of the helipad site.

This new public transport hub would be in a prime location, being close to the Royal Adelaide Hospital and future Women's and Children's Hospital. A new 15000 seat indoor arena, as well as new retail stores, offices, hotels, cafes, restaurants, bars and clubs would also be developed nearby, as well as new open space allowing for views of the River Torrens.

Once this new public transport hub comes to fruition, the existing Adelaide Railway Station platforms and railway lines will become redundant, be removed and the site used for an expansion of the Adelaide Casino and Convention Centre as well as a new concert hall/theatre. The existing Adelaide Parklands Terminal will also be demolished and its site will be used to complete the inner Adelaide ring route as well as new offices and elite sports training grounds, and the existing bus station demolished for a high rise development.
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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#2 Post by rev » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:01 am

An integrated transport hub is a good idea. But we are so far behind on other transport needs by the time we get something like that, the other capitals will have evolved to flying cars.

High speed interstate rail. Not even a pipe dream for SA, even if they ever build one on the east coast.

Regional Rail. Should already be a thing, but this is SA.

Tram to the Port. Nah, keep the regular rail. But the Port and surrounding beach suburbs should have a tram system of their own.

Thebby Barracks. You'd need to find a new location for the Police horses and Police dog units because that's where they are based.

New taxi rank & tram station on the western side of the nRAH. The problem with those two ideas is that the western side is the main access for the emergency department/parking/ambulances.


Personally I think the existing interstate bus terminal would be a better location for such a hub.
If we ever go ahead with the underground rail component through the CBD/City.
Demolish the buildings west of the bus terminal that border Morphett Grote and Franklin streets and the two directly east of it. Expand the bus terminal to include metro and regional buses, bring in trams, underground rail for metro, interstate and regional. Yeh, it'll cost shit loads especially tunnelling, but such big projects should be city building projects that break boundaries and norms and take things to another level.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#3 Post by SRW » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:40 pm

Can't see why you'd want to relocate the current peripheral station even more peripherally. And besides that, interstate and regional rail are (and will foreseeably remain) minor or non concerns.

What's pressing is the need to through-run metropolitan trains underground through the city that will, as a positive consequence, free up Adelaide Railway Station for the return of long-distance rail (interstate and possibly Barossa -- or, if we're dreaming, Renmark, Mt Gambier, Whyalla etc...). As for integrating with bus services, perhaps an opportunity exists with a new underground station near Vic Square/Central Markets as rev suggests, but I wouldn't rate it a huge priority.
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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#4 Post by andynguyen » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:17 pm

rev wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:01 am
An integrated transport hub is a good idea. But we are so far behind on other transport needs by the time we get something like that, the other capitals will have evolved to flying cars.

High speed interstate rail. Not even a pipe dream for SA, even if they ever build one on the east coast.

Regional Rail. Should already be a thing, but this is SA.

Tram to the Port. Nah, keep the regular rail. But the Port and surrounding beach suburbs should have a tram system of their own.

Thebby Barracks. You'd need to find a new location for the Police horses and Police dog units because that's where they are based.

New taxi rank & tram station on the western side of the nRAH. The problem with those two ideas is that the western side is the main access for the emergency department/parking/ambulances.


Personally I think the existing interstate bus terminal would be a better location for such a hub.
If we ever go ahead with the underground rail component through the CBD/City.
Demolish the buildings west of the bus terminal that border Morphett Grote and Franklin streets and the two directly east of it. Expand the bus terminal to include metro and regional buses, bring in trams, underground rail for metro, interstate and regional. Yeh, it'll cost shit loads especially tunnelling, but such big projects should be city building projects that break boundaries and norms and take things to another level.
With regards to high speed interstate rail, it could become a reality one day. Once freight trains are removed from the suburbs through a dedicated Adelaide rail bypass, there is an opportunity to use the existing rail corridor from Mitcham to Islington for high speed interstate rail, with new tracks along the Northern Connector to the north connecting to existing tracks and a rail tunnel from Mitcham to Bridgewater to the east, then new tracks to Monarto, connecting to existing tracks. High speed rail will also use a new train fleet travelling at up to 350km/h, replace the existing Overland, Indian Pacific and possibly The Ghan train fleet once their useful life ends.

I agree with the need for regional rail, and the new transport hub will allow provisions to handle regional rail through dedicated platforms.

With regards to access to the Port, there are a number of options. Keeping regular rail is an option, but that could mean additional platforms are needed at the new transport hub, or less than desired frequency for the Gawler and Seaford lines which are higher patronage lines. And also we need to consider access from West Lakes, so keeping regular rail could result in West Lakes residents having to catch a bus or drive to Woodville to catch the train, or alternatively trams could be extended from the Entertainment Centre to West Lakes using Port Road.

Police horses/dog units located in Thebby could be relocated to the SA Police Academy.

Only the car parking will be affected in the hospital precinct to make way for a new tram station and possibly a taxi rank. Additional car parking would be provided at the southern edge of the Royal Adelaide Hospital to make up for the lost car parking spaces. Ambulance access will be maintained.

If the new transport hub is located at the existing interstate bus terminal, it could lead to more CBD congestion and it's also harder for buses to enter and leave the terminal. Assuming new regional trains are diesel trains, it may not be practical for regional trains to use the transport hub at the existing interstate bus terminal due to the fumes emitted, and for those trains, along with interstate trains, it creates issues with access.
Last edited by andynguyen on Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#5 Post by andynguyen » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:06 pm

SRW wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:40 pm
Can't see why you'd want to relocate the current peripheral station even more peripherally. And besides that, interstate and regional rail are (and will foreseeably remain) minor or non concerns.

What's pressing is the need to through-run metropolitan trains underground through the city that will, as a positive consequence, free up Adelaide Railway Station for the return of long-distance rail (interstate and possibly Barossa -- or, if we're dreaming, Renmark, Mt Gambier, Whyalla etc...). As for integrating with bus services, perhaps an opportunity exists with a new underground station near Vic Square/Central Markets as rev suggests, but I wouldn't rate it a huge priority.
I agree with the need for metropolitan trains to run underground. However, at the same time, we need to maximise development opportunities that will activate the Riverbank precinct, one of the most utilised precincts in Adelaide. For this reason, the train station platforms and associated railway tracks at Adelaide Railway Station should be removed and converted into an expansion of the casino and the convention centre, and there will still be an underground railway station at the existing site of the Adelaide Railway Station. It's also the reason why interstate and regional rail is best located at the new public transport hub at the triangular railway junction, at the western part of the Riverbank precinct, where there is more room.

As for regional rail, we could have trains to Barossa, Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor. Those travelling to Renmark would still catch buses given its small population and distance from Adelaide. Those travelling to Mt Gambier could catch Melbourne-bound high speed rail services and change at Bordertown for a connecting train or bus service, and those for Whyalla could catch Perth-bound high speed rail services and change at Port Augusta for a connecting train or bus service.

A bus station at Vic Square/Central Markets is not ideal as it would create congestion problems for the CBD and buses would find it hard to enter or exit the terminal. The new public transport hub is the best location for separate metropolitan and long distance bus stations.

We need a long term vision for public transport services in South Australia. Currently we have the worst level of public transport integration in this country. The new public transport hub will be the best in this country, with modern facilities to cater for public transport users, whether it would be suburban, regional or interstate.
Last edited by andynguyen on Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#6 Post by Goodsy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:59 pm

rev wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:01 am

Tram to the Port. Nah, keep the regular rail. But the Port and surrounding beach suburbs should have a tram system of their own.
The Port should be connected with a train service and a tram service, It doesn't have to be one or the either.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#7 Post by SBD » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:51 pm

andynguyen wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:06 pm
...

As for regional rail, we could have trains to Barossa, Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor. Those travelling to Renmark would still catch buses given its small population and distance from Adelaide. Those travelling to Mt Gambier could catch Melbourne-bound high speed rail services and change at Bordertown for a connecting train or bus service, and those for Whyalla could catch Perth-bound high speed rail services and change at Port Augusta for a connecting train or bus service.

...
Do your remarks about Renmark assume the historic route via Tailem Bend and Karoonda, or a new route?

A viable new route could be on the old Morgan route, then joining the old route from Barmera via Berri to Renmark, and linking to the revamped Victorian network at Mildura (possibly on the old Morkalla route).

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#8 Post by dingies1985 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:36 am

rev wrote:An integrated transport hub is a good idea. But we are so far behind on other transport needs by the time we get something like that, the other capitals will have evolved to flying cars.

High speed interstate rail. Not even a pipe dream for SA, even if they ever build one on the east coast.

Regional Rail. Should already be a thing, but this is SA.

Tram to the Port. Nah, keep the regular rail. But the Port and surrounding beach suburbs should have a tram system of their own.

Thebby Barracks. You'd need to find a new location for the Police horses and Police dog units because that's where they are based.

New taxi rank & tram station on the western side of the nRAH. The problem with those two ideas is that the western side is the main access for the emergency department/parking/ambulances.


Personally I think the existing interstate bus terminal would be a better location for such a hub.
If we ever go ahead with the underground rail component through the CBD/City.
Demolish the buildings west of the bus terminal that border Morphett Grote and Franklin streets and the two directly east of it. Expand the bus terminal to include metro and regional buses, bring in trams, underground rail for metro, interstate and regional. Yeh, it'll cost shit loads especially tunnelling, but such big projects should be city building projects that break boundaries and norms and take things to another level.
Sorry but the flying cars haha. I love it.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#9 Post by Saltwater » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am

Adelaide needs to focus on electrifying the remainder of the rail network, and completing an underground link through the CBD, ideally by linking up the Seaford and Gawler lines and running trains through. Ideally there would be an underground station underneath or very close to the existing Adelaide railway station.

Putting a transport hub further west moves the bulk of platforms further away from where they need to be, close to city offices, shops & dining. Having multiple local, regional and interstate buses all using the terminal also leads to congestion, where a lot of half empty buses would be queued up to use the terminal. The existing arrangements where buses like the H20 pass through the city work just fine in my opinion.

Moving interstate trains presents further challenges. Currently trains arriving from Sydney, Perth or Darwin are upwards of 20 carriages long, so the existing alignment at Adelaide terminal works well. Passengers on these trains are heading out for day trips on coaches, or connecting to other boats or planes by taxi, not many of them are looking to connect to a suburban train to get to Westfield Marion.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#10 Post by Goodsy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:32 am

Saltwater wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am
Moving interstate trains presents further challenges. Currently trains arriving from Sydney, Perth or Darwin are upwards of 20 carriages long, so the existing alignment at Adelaide terminal works well. Passengers on these trains are heading out for day trips on coaches, or connecting to other boats or planes by taxi, not many of them are looking to connect to a suburban train to get to Westfield Marion.
We shouldn't hold back the transportation needs of a city to save a few already dying rail services.

Dig out a huge cavern under the old GPO building on Vic Square and turn it into our central station.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#11 Post by andynguyen » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:26 pm

SBD wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:51 pm
...

Do your remarks about Renmark assume the historic route via Tailem Bend and Karoonda, or a new route?

A viable new route could be on the old Morgan route, then joining the old route from Barmera via Berri to Renmark, and linking to the revamped Victorian network at Mildura (possibly on the old Morkalla route).
Those options you've mentioned could be possible if there's demand for it and population growth in Renmark and surrounding areas. The rail route via Tailem Bend could carry lower costs since it uses much of an existing rail alignment and higher benefits since it could be connected with future high speed rail services from Melbourne. Alternatively, Renmark could be serviced via a bus direct from Adelaide, or connect with trains from Barossa or Murray Bridge.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#12 Post by andynguyen » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm

Saltwater wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am
Adelaide needs to focus on electrifying the remainder of the rail network, and completing an underground link through the CBD, ideally by linking up the Seaford and Gawler lines and running trains through. Ideally there would be an underground station underneath or very close to the existing Adelaide railway station.
Definitely agree with the electrification of Gawler line, others not too sure. Outer Harbor line could be converted to tram which may not have wires compared to electrified rail, the same could go for the section between Mitcham and Blackwood after completion of a new rail link to Mount Barker and removal of freight trains from suburban Adelaide. The Grange spur line and Belair line beyond Blackwood have very low patronage so they could be closed.

As for Adelaide underground rail, the underground station could be built at the land of the existing train station, through the removal of platforms at ground level once the new public transport hub to the west of the Riverbank goes online. Unused sections of the Adelaide railway station land could be used to expand the Casino and the Convention Centre. If the Adelaide underground station is built anywhere else near the existing train station, property will most likely have to be acquired which seems unnecessary.
Saltwater wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am
Putting a transport hub further west moves the bulk of platforms further away from where they need to be, close to city offices, shops & dining. Having multiple local, regional and interstate buses all using the terminal also leads to congestion, where a lot of half empty buses would be queued up to use the terminal. The existing arrangements where buses like the H20 pass through the city work just fine in my opinion.
There will be new offices, shops and dining facilities near the new transport hub, plus its close to the nRAH and the future WCH. One of the purposes of many transport infrastructure projects is to encourage development in the appropriate places.

There will be two separate terminals and entrances, one for metropolitan buses and the other for long distance regional and interstate buses. Only buses and emergency vehicles would use the access road to and from the new metropolitan bus terminal.
Saltwater wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:58 am
Moving interstate trains presents further challenges. Currently trains arriving from Sydney, Perth or Darwin are upwards of 20 carriages long, so the existing alignment at Adelaide terminal works well. Passengers on these trains are heading out for day trips on coaches, or connecting to other boats or planes by taxi, not many of them are looking to connect to a suburban train to get to Westfield Marion.
In the long run the existing interstate trains from Sydney, Perth and Darwin will reach the end of its useful life. Trains to Perth and Sydney could be replaced with high speed trains running at up to 350km/h. Those trains are less than half the length of the existing trains but operate at a much higher frequency with services departing every few hours. Darwin trains could be replaced with buses altogether in the long run, running direct from Adelaide's new bus terminal, or alternatively a new regular train fleet could be used with passengers using high speed rail to Tarcoola and changing there for the Darwin train.

If interstate trains use the new transport hub there's less of a need for dedicated buses or taxis to get around, as the new transport hub will be well connected to other key destinations in Adelaide and the regions. Plus there are Adelaide residents from the suburbs that could catch suburban train services to the new transport hub and then transfer to interstate trains.

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#13 Post by SRW » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:20 pm

andynguyen wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm
As for Adelaide underground rail, the underground station could be built at the land of the existing train station, through the removal of platforms at ground level once the new public transport hub to the west of the Riverbank goes online. Unused sections of the Adelaide railway station land could be used to expand the Casino and the Convention Centre. If the Adelaide underground station is built anywhere else near the existing train station, property will most likely have to be acquired which seems unnecessary.
We know little about DPTI's planning for underground rail, but we do know that they reserved land between the two new uni buildings on North Terrace for tunnel access. This would suggest that any underground station would be located south of the existing Railway Station, presumably beneath North Terrace to connect with the existing underpass. If any property is required, I think Riverside Centre and Roma Mitchell House are both still publicly owned.
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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#14 Post by andynguyen » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:37 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:32 am
We shouldn't hold back the transportation needs of a city to save a few already dying rail services.

Dig out a huge cavern under the old GPO building on Vic Square and turn it into our central station.
Victoria Square is not the ideal location for a central station for the following reasons:
- Old GPO building is heritage listed
- Potential loss of valuable open space
- Traffic congestion in the CBD due to buses entering/exiting the station
- All platforms have to be completely underground, which is unsuitable for diesel trains due to exhaust fumes

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Re: New Adelaide public transport hub

#15 Post by andynguyen » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:50 pm

SRW wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:20 pm
We know little about DPTI's planning for underground rail, but we do know that they reserved land between the two new uni buildings on North Terrace for tunnel access. This would suggest that any underground station would be located south of the existing Railway Station, presumably beneath North Terrace to connect with the existing underpass. If any property is required, I think Riverside Centre and Roma Mitchell House are both still publicly owned.
Nothing is certain yet in DPTI's view about where the underground station would be. This may, or may not mean the underground station is located south of the existing Adelaide railway station. The only thing that's certain is there has to be an underground station at or near the existing Adelaide railway station site.

My preferred option is to remove platforms 1 to 3 at the existing station to build the underground station and platforms. The Sydney Metro project removed some existing platforms in the Central Station to build the underground station. If any property is required for the underground rail and station, there would be an increase in the overall cost of the project. Also the Riverside Centre is above ground so this property is very unlikely to be needed.

At the very least the train station platform components and tram connection at the new transport hub should be completed first before moving on to underground rail in order to minimise disruption during construction of the underground rail. This will also mean all the tracks leading up to, and existing platforms at Adelaide railway station will no longer be needed and unused portions of the land used to maximise development, such as expanding the Casino as I mentioned before. Removing those unused tracks could also lower the costs of building a new indoor arena and further expanding the Convention Centre which could be constructed in the medium to long term.
Last edited by andynguyen on Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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