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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:41 pm
by SBD
skyliner wrote: ↑Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:34 pm
You guys forgot the effort we made to electrify in 1973. Cables were seen in Islington yards. Then another effort around 1918 - the evidence wad the side loading dogboxes we got - each compartment had a door to the platfoms. All gone now - used o travel with the centenary cars in the 70's.
TOWARDS A GREATER CBD SKYLINE
I thought the 1950s was the second time, but didn't find 1918 in my lunch break - I'd misremembered by a decade. Thanks for adding to the history.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:25 am
by Aidan
Up until recently I regarded a Gawler Place alignment as the best option for a tunnel under the City. However, lately I've been more seriously considering the advantages of a Pultney Street alignment. But with all the high rise development occurring around the east end of Rundle Mall, I'm wondering if that's now under threat. Has a route been safeguarded?
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:31 am
by SBD
Aidan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:25 am
Up until recently I regarded a Gawler Place alignment as the best option for a tunnel under the City. However, lately I've been more seriously considering the advantages of a Pultney Street alignment. But with all the high rise development occurring around the east end of Rundle Mall, I'm wondering if that's now under threat. Has a route been safeguarded?
It looks like that was proposed seventy years ago, too:
Railway idea (1952, July 24). News, p. 24. Retrieved October 29, 2018, from
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article130815017
Railway idea
The Government should
consider an underground
railway station beneath
Rundle street. and Gawler
place, Mr. Glen Pearson
(LCP, Flinders) said in the
Assembly today.
Continuing the Address
in-Reply, Mr. Pearson said
the matter warranted con
sideration in the scheme to
electrify metropolitan rail
lines.
There was also a more detailed letter to the editor in 1948 at
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43776811 I doubt these articles came out of nowhere.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 am
by RetroGamer87
SBD wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:31 am
Aidan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:25 am
Up until recently I regarded a Gawler Place alignment as the best option for a tunnel under the City. However, lately I've been more seriously considering the advantages of a Pultney Street alignment. But with all the high rise development occurring around the east end of Rundle Mall, I'm wondering if that's now under threat. Has a route been safeguarded?
It looks like that was proposed seventy years ago, too:
Railway idea (1952, July 24). News, p. 24. Retrieved October 29, 2018, from
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article130815017
Railway idea
The Government should
consider an underground
railway station beneath
Rundle street. and Gawler
place, Mr. Glen Pearson
(LCP, Flinders) said in the
Assembly today.
Continuing the Address
in-Reply, Mr. Pearson said
the matter warranted con
sideration in the scheme to
electrify metropolitan rail
lines.
There was also a more detailed letter to the editor in 1948 at
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43776811 I doubt these articles came out of nowhere.
So if they were considering electrification in 1948 or 1918, why did it take them so long?
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:19 pm
by SBD
RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 am
So if they were considering electrification in 1948 or 1918, why did it take them so long?
I have no idea. Especially since Glen Pearson who made that speech in parliament was a backbencher then but went on to be Minister for Works 1958-1965 according to Wikipedia.
Presumably it was cost-prohibitive at the time, with other projects seen to provide better value for money. 1918 could have seen the rise of motorised road transport, needing roads that were suitable for cars instead of horses. 1948 was the start of Australian-built mass-production cars.
The state had private companies building steam locomotives as well as the Islington Works still, but struggling. There could have been social concerns at putting them out of business similar to the state not buying electric cars or buses while we had local manufacturers of petrol/diesel ones.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:40 pm
by Goodsy
SBD wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:19 pm
RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 am
So if they were considering electrification in 1948 or 1918, why did it take them so long?
I have no idea. Especially since Glen Pearson who made that speech in parliament was a backbencher then but went on to be Minister for Works 1958-1965 according to Wikipedia.
Presumably it was cost-prohibitive at the time, with other projects seen to provide better value for money. 1918 could have seen the rise of motorised road transport, needing roads that were suitable for cars instead of horses. 1948 was the start of Australian-built mass-production cars.
The state had private companies building steam locomotives as well as the Islington Works still, but struggling. There could have been social concerns at putting them out of business similar to the state not buying electric cars or buses while we had local manufacturers of petrol/diesel ones.
Probably material and labor shortages after each world war
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:47 pm
by Aidan
There have been lots of plans to expand and electrify our railways. Many have relied on Federal funding which was not available. There have been technical disagreements as to whether it should be 1500V DC or 25kV AC. And at least one study concluded the costs outweigh the benefits.
Anyway, we're past all that now. So back to my earlier question: has a tunnel route been safeguarded?
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:00 pm
by claybro
Aidan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:47 pm
There have been lots of plans to expand and electrify our railways. Many have relied on Federal funding which was not available. There have been technical disagreements as to whether it should be 1500V DC or 25kV AC. And at least one study concluded the costs outweigh the benefits.
Anyway, we're past all that now. So back to my earlier question: has a tunnel route been safeguarded?
I have read previously the route has been reserved in a loop from Adelaide station, toward the Pultney street end of the Mall, looping back toward Vic square and then under the SW corner of the CBD-then joining the southern line. There is to be a station adjacent or under Hindmarsh SQ, Victoria SQ, and I cant recall if there was an additional station somewhere in the South West of CBD. Buildings over this reserve are apparently designed with pilings to avoid this right of way. Not sure as to the accuracy of all this though.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:13 pm
by zippySA
It is very much real - take a look at the new Uni of Adelaide Building on North Tce (AMNHS Building) - it isn't simply a design feature the way it cantilevers at the eastern end - due to the underground easement of DPTI - no piles allowed to penetrate the reserved space.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:51 pm
by ChillyPhilly
Found on page 122 of the Integrated Transport and Land Use Plan (ITLUP). It's still available to view online - make the most of this before the Liberals quietly delete it and replace it with a 'page not found'.
Inner Adelaide:
CBD, including underground rail loop:
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:31 pm
by ginzahikari
Saw a new concrete pillar being built next to the southbound Main South Road traffic at Flinders Drive, hopefully this is for the Flinders Link.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:11 pm
by LanewayMapper
zippySA wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:13 pm
It is very much real - take a look at the new Uni of Adelaide Building on North Tce (AMNHS Building) - it isn't simply a design feature the way it cantilevers at the eastern end - due to the underground easement of DPTI - no piles allowed to penetrate the reserved space.
Here is the tunnel easement plan.
- tunnel easement.png (400.06 KiB) Viewed 2588 times
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:22 pm
by Goodsy
So the tunnel starts on the northern side of the yard? I wondered if they were going to do that
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:01 pm
by claybro
Goodsy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:22 pm
So the tunnel starts on the northern side of the yard? I wondered if they were going to do that
From my recollection, it was envisaged that the Northern line and Southern line would link with a thru tunnel looping around the city. Similar to the Perth underground north/south linkup, but not a true loop like Melbourne, where trains complete an entire loop and return out on the same line to the original destination. It would then make sense that the tunnel portal would be on the northern side. I don't think that any of this is anywhere near set in stone though. Looking at the map, it would appear maybe Belair trains might still enter Adelaide station via the existing route, while the Southern/Northern trains traverse the CBD via the tunnel, more like a metro than a loop.
Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 pm
by rhino
I would have expected the tracks to be laid such that a train coming in from the northern line could traverse the loop and head out to the north again, the same as trains on the southern line will be able to.