News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

[rubberman]

Dr Smith,

The reason that the NBN project is behind time is 90% due to two issues: Telstra delayed negotiations as long as possible. Telstra's pits had asbestos.

Neither of those are issues that are the responsibility of the government of the day - whatever its politics. Trying to blame a government for a private company trying to do the best for its shareholders, and a government agency trying to stop taxpayers being screwed over IS making it political however. I could also point out that had a previous government not sold Telstra, then the negotiations would have been out of the way in a day.

What is more alarming to me, and should be to all of us is that Telstra lost the first tender to roll out broadband. Its delays have cost us a lot. Then end result? It will sell much of its defunct copper at a huge windfall profit, it will continue to gouge us for copper maintenance, it will no doubt get lucrative contracts from the new government,and we are ending up with a network that will put us at a disadvantage with our trading partners, all at a greater cost than the original proposal. That is, assuming the figures on P100 of the report are correct, and when you add in the copper maintenance costs.

This is not only shameful, it also is starting to smell.

[drsmith]

Dr Smith,

The reason that the NBN project is behind time is 90% due to two issues: Telstra delayed negotiations as long as possible. Telstra's pits had asbestos.

At the risk of being drawn into partisan political debate on this, asbestos didn't magically appear in Telstra's pits after the NBN build began. It was always there.

The Strategic Review outlines a broad range of reasons for the rollout delays.

[Amused]

I would suggest the ultimate design of the current government's solution is still very much a work in progress.

I completely agree with you on this. If there is any more possible way for Turnbull to downsize, withdraw promises and technology investment, or just generally f*** up the NBN any further between now and the completion, you can bet on him investing all his energy in doing so. So by that notion, yes, I too believe the Government's 'NBN' is indeed a work in progress. I dare say the desired goal posts would be to somehow withdraw even the services and technology that we have today whilst funneling cash to various mates and business contacts if that were at all feasible without the people storming Parliament House.

One party decided to nation build and create a state of the art broadband network for all Australians.
The other party is determined to tear it down to worse than useless whilst pushing as much money as possible to corporations like Telstra, who completely take advantage of their monopoly in network infrastructure. These mongrels aren't already rolling around in enough blood money, yet the LNP Govt chooses to pamper them further with more truckloads of cash. This whole situation is disgusting.

But hey, I remember many, many pages back saying that I will be able to say 'I told you so,' and wait for it, because I am drawing breath in preparation at this moment.

[drsmith]

One party decided to nation build and create a state of the art broadband network for all Australians.

But after 6-years in office, they couldn't deliver it either remotely on time or on budget.

As it stands now, neither political side can claim the high ground on this subject. A big step for the Coalition will be the practicality (and hence deliverability) of what is outlined in the next NBN Co corporate plan. We'll have to wait till the middle of next year for that so you're going to turn awfully blue if you only draw one breath between now and then.

[rubberman]

Dr Smith,

The reason that the NBN project is behind time is 90% due to two issues: Telstra delayed negotiations as long as possible. Telstra's pits had asbestos.

At the risk of being drawn into partisan political debate on this, asbestos didn't magically appear in Telstra's pits after the NBN build began. It was always there.

The Strategic Review outlines a broad range of reasons for the rollout delays.

Dr S,

Do you really think it is the duty of the government of the day,whatever its colour, to inspect every pit or detail of every project it does? Those pits were/are Telstra's - if the NBN Co was unaware, the only reason is because Telstra did not tell them. That could easily happen to the present government. Should something like that happen, would you think it fair if the present government were blamed? Hardly.

As for the report. I hate to say it, but it seems to be more an opposition document then a government one.

It omits upload speeds - something that is of interest to business. It omits maintenance costs. It omits to address the issue of how someone can get fibre extended to this premises if they wish to pay, it does not address what happens to house values if only served with copper. Those things can be hand waved away by an opposition. They cannot be ignored by a government that wants to stay in for more than one term.

The Coalition has to stop treating our national communications infrastructure as if it is in opposition. It is in government now, and has to do better than the previous mob...not worse.

[drsmith]

It omits upload speeds - something that is of interest to business. It omits maintenance costs.

Refer to section 3.4 (FTTN and FTTB/dp) on pages 86 to 88. That part of the review might address some of your other points as well.

[monotonehell]

One party decided to nation build and create a state of the art broadband network for all Australians.

But after 6-years in office, they couldn't deliver it either remotely on time or on budget.

As it stands now, neither political side can claim the high ground on this subject. A big step for the Coalition will be the practicality (and hence deliverability) of what is outlined in the next NBN Co corporate plan. We'll have to wait till the middle of next year for that so you're going to turn awfully blue if you only draw one breath between now and then.

No, Dr Smith. Just no.

The previous mob of idiots were stumbling forward with the correct solution technologically. They had a vision of a National Broadband Network. They had a way forward, which was designed the level the playing field economically - something this country has not had in the communications industry since Howard set up Telstra in monopoly. Sure they hit hurdles and were behind schedule, what project on this scale EVER runs to schedule?

The current mob of idiots are deliberately sabotaging an NBN in favour of allowing the monopoly situation to carry forward. Not only are they doing that, but they are doing that in a way where taxpayer money is being funnelled into that monopoly. They keep promoting untried and unsuitable technology. They want to purchase crapped out networks that commercial entities are about to scrap for multi-billions. All to deliver ... what? About the same standard of service we currently enjoy.

The whole situation is looking corrupt. There's a big difference between incompetence and corruption.

How about a Greens led government? At this point I'm willing to try that.

[drsmith]

How about a Greens led government?

That would mean no bypass of Port Wakefield in my lifetime.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that.

[Aidan]

How about a Greens led government?

That would mean no bypass of Port Wakefield in my lifetime.

How do you reach that conclusion?

[Aidan]

It omits upload speeds - something that is of interest to business. It omits maintenance costs.

Refer to section 3.4 (FTTN and FTTB/dp) on pages 86 to 88. That part of the review might address some of your other points as well.

Thanks for alerting me to this section drsmith - on p#88 it shows that their calculations are based on an 8% discount rate. That's grossly inappropriate at a time when the RBA cash rate is 2.5%, and it goes a long way to explaining why their conclusion favours FTTN.

I will include this example in one of my submissions to the Productivity Commission's infrastructure inquiry next week.

[drsmith]

I will include this example in one of my submissions to the Productivity Commission's infrastructure inquiry next week.

Page 100 outlines the rationale behind the discount rate.

With regard to your comparison, why a short-term cash rate and not a longer term interest rate ?

[Aidan]

Page 100 outlines the rationale behind the discount rate.

That other companies in the industry pay more? What a feeble excuse! Other companies in the industry have higher finance costs and have to price in risk, and after the comms bubble of the early 21st century, it's understandable that they'd be extra risk averse. And of course one of the main reasons to have NBNCo in the public sector is to remove the need to make a commercial return on investment.

With regard to your comparison, why a short-term cash rate and not a longer term interest rate ?

Because a large part of the money would be spent in the short term, and interest rates are unlikely to take off any time soon.

But IMO even 2.5% is inappropriately high. Interest rates are set to control inflation. Spending on infrastructure such as the NBN has a deflationary effect that most commercial spending doesn't, and the discount rate used should reflect that.

[rubberman]

It omits upload speeds - something that is of interest to business. It omits maintenance costs.

Refer to section 3.4 (FTTN and FTTB/dp) on pages 86 to 88. That part of the review might address some of your other points as well.

Dr S, I read those pages originally, and they do not address my concerns, rather they are the cause of my concerns.

They specifically show poor upload speeds, and just hand wave away practical problems with service extension.

Put it another way. Having observed the previous government, don't you think the present government would be just a little suspicious of its 'experts' hand waving away something that is potentially very contentious and damaging to the government if it can't be done? If the government spends billions, and extensions are only possible in few areas, the opposition is going to have a field day that will make 'pink batts' look like an exercise in fiscal responsibility.

That's what I meant about the govt needing to act like a government, and not an opposition. The opposition can gloss over this stuff, but a government has to make it work. An opposition can get away with this sort of report, a government will get caught out because no matter how convincing words and tables are, if Fred business owner gets told that even if he is willing to pay for an extension, he can't get it, the manure will hit the turbine.

[Amused]

The whole situation is looking corrupt. There's a big difference between incompetence and corruption.

How about a Greens led government? At this point I'm willing to try that.

You know, that is exactly what I've been thinking and not saying. I thought it was borderline corruption the amount of lies of which Turnbull somehow managed to buy popular opinion for his side of the fence. But what we now see is clear as day. I mean, it would be bad enough if the Government was paying more than half of the original capital for a system that was just better than half as useful, but it is clear the intention is to deliver far less, at far more. And worse, it appears instead of the goal being to create a semi-useful, upgradable network, they've chosen the cheapest, shittiest of the NBN Co recommendations by the report's own admission, where lots and lots and lots and lots of money will be disappearing into corporate pockets. How does this not absolutely stink of corruption? Someone please, please show me that I am wrong and where our value for money is? The online community has a very relevant name for this sort of thing... it is called bloody 'vaporware' because it dissolves to vapor after the money has been paid!
I'd rather LNP not spend a damn cent more on the issue and keep the status quo rather than throw billions at monopolies just to give the illusion that something is being built.

[fabricator]

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/coaliti ... cw56XdnJcJ

Construction firms building the national broadband network have told sub-contractors they will have to wait up to five months before receiving more work, as the rollout of fibre optic cabling grinds to a halt.
NBN Co revealed that in October a 10th of its standard workload was carried out. Small work crews physically rolling out fibre cabling along streets and into homes say they will need to cut dozens of staff if there is no further work.
Figures released on Wednesday indicated fewer than 2000 homes and businesses were passed with fibre during October, compared with 28,000 in September.

Also look at the changes made to the official NBNco maps since October. Look at the suburbs with 'new' next to them.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/when-do-i-get-i ... towns-maps
grand total of 1 SA region added 5MOD-02
There is also 5PRO-02 which we know is getting done, but it's not on the map yet.

Absolutely pathetic, Turnbull should resign from parliament over this. Crippling the rollout so only a few thousand SA homes get cable run past in 3 months, while construction companies lay off staff.