Sensational-Adelaide.com

PeFe wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:42 pm

Look at this.....the Coburg train station in Melbourne rebuilt in the style of an Art Deco cinema!

Bloody brilliant urban renewal and transport upgrade at the same time !

I bet you all the whingers who lived in the area weren't complaining when their house values rose by 50k as soon as the train station reopened.

This is precisely what should happen in Adelaide, based on EXISTING stations. We're happy to endlessly build more suburbs and then lament the lack of train services. We build density, where there is insufficient shops/services and transport. Trains that do exist, don't have any services nearby. Im thinking a complete revamp of the Marion triangle to focus more north to the Oaklands station. Castle Plaza to expand westward to the rail line, Elizabeth Center expand to the station etc.Yes- houses would have to go, some roads closed- but suitable high density housing and public spaces, mixed with shops, services, employment etc. Even where open space currently exists near a rail line- Adelaide fucks it up...for example the missed opportunity at Kilburn/Prospect road and St Clair that never quite got it right and could have been so much more.

What rubberman said about 'good debt versus bad debt', as far as I'm concerned, any sort of investment in infrastructure (be it public transport, sporting, arts and cultural) is a good investment; even if we pay for it down the line. It's what makes a city liveable and entices the retention of existing residents and new residents (bonus for Adelaide is that typically we're an affordable city), it creates jobs and tells the world that a city is open for business and can cater for any workforce that is set up there. For me, having lived in both Adelaide and Melbourne, a successful public transport system is measured based on frequency/volume and weirdly enough (bear with me on this), the need for better policing; if a train station in Melbourne has ticketed gates or station personnel, it usually suggests that the volume of users are so great that they require the aid of a gating system and staff to man it. In Adelaide, from my understanding, this is the case at Adelaide Railway Station and maybe Gawler Central, Salisbury Interchange and Noarlunga Centre; that's four stations on a network of over 100 stations. I know our population is a quarter that of Melbourne's, but it doesn't even seem like we're trying to improve these amenities with the intent of increasing the volume of users but rather just give enough to extend the life of them.

I've long been of the belief, like the majority on this forum and like most road users, that South Road is an expensive problem in road network that has existed since the inception of the MATS plan and it needs to be fixed (at the very least), but when you take the price tag of those tunnels and put a price tag on a complete overhaul of our PT network (including station upgrades, line extensions and electrification, an underground city loop, a reinstated tram network with lines going in all four directions of the city, not to mention maybe reinstating some regional rail), it would likely still come in at a cost a fraction of what the SA government's 'matching' contribution to the South Road tunnels is going to be. When the response to public transport upgrades is likely to be something of: "well, we're investing in SA roads, that's our contribution to infrastructure to keep SA moving." it's not good enough. Especially with the price of fuel increasing, the cost of maintaining a vehicle increasing and the alternatives being (generally speaking) bus transport (typically unreliable) or bicycle (lol, not exactly the ideal bike riding amenities in Adelaide either). I could get these 'luxuries' elsewhere in the world, but that's not the point, I'd just be another resident jumping ship to go somewhere to get basic things that Adelaide can and should have - only then to be a number in the statistics of Adelaidean's leaving for somewhere else and a state government reading that, scratching their head wondering why.

We'll be seeing some hybrid motors put into the newer 3000/3100 units. Sadly as per a photo on a FB group they'll get a hideous green racing stripe across the entire window area to signify that.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/about- ... ble-future

Trains on non-electrified rail lines

We’ve engaged transport experts Ricardo Rail to explore zero emission options for trains on the Belair, Outer Harbor and Grange rail lines, and the Port Dock spur line. Traditional electrification and emerging technologies like battery and hydrogen power will be included in our search for the most suitable solutions.

Diesel hybrid train trial

The trial of our first two diesel hybrid railcars will commence soon. The diesel hybrid system recovers excess energy when the train brakes and stores it in a battery for later use. Diesel hybrid trains are more reliable and release less fumes than traditional diesels, reduce fuel consumption by up to 20% and provide a more comfortable journey for passengers.

cocoiadrop wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:21 pm

We'll be seeing some hybrid motors put into the newer 3000/3100 units. Sadly as per a photo on a FB group they'll get a hideous green racing stripe across the entire window area to signify that.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/about- ... ble-future

Trains on non-electrified rail lines

We’ve engaged transport experts Ricardo Rail to explore zero emission options for trains on the Belair, Outer Harbor and Grange rail lines, and the Port Dock spur line. Traditional electrification and emerging technologies like battery and hydrogen power will be included in our search for the most suitable solutions.

Diesel hybrid train trial

The trial of our first two diesel hybrid railcars will commence soon. The diesel hybrid system recovers excess energy when the train brakes and stores it in a battery for later use. Diesel hybrid trains are more reliable and release less fumes than traditional diesels, reduce fuel consumption by up to 20% and provide a more comfortable journey for passengers.

Fantastic that some will be able to be partly electrically powered, and that ARS will be quieter, but yikes...

I thought the 3000 series were already diesel-electric?

They could have at least used the same shade of green as the Adelaide Metro logo so it blended a little better (not that it's aesthetically nicer).

claybro wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:25 am

I thought the 3000 series were already diesel-electric?

Believe so, seems they're adding regenerative braking and some batteries rather than relying solely on the diesel engine to power the electric motor. Makes sense considering the stop/start nature of the Outer Harbor/Grange lines and the amount of braking that would occur coming down from Belair. Branding them as our first diesel hybrid railcars seems odd though since they've been DEMUs all along.

Diesel-electric isn't the same as diesel hybrid though so isn't that statement correct?

So by trialling the hybrid tech on them, I guess that rules out the OH line being converted to electric in the near future?

rev wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:41 pm

So by trialling the hybrid tech on them, I guess that rules out the OH line being converted to electric in the near future?

I guess it would depend on whether the changes could improve performance to match straight electric. For example, if the battery were able to provide an extra boost during acceleration, and get the acceleration high enough, then what's the case for putting up overhead wiring? I guess that's why they are trying it.

I'm just guessing, mind you. Happy to be corrected if someone has better info.

With 3 of 6 lines been electrified and getting modern electric trains , its only a matter of time until Outer Harbor, Grange and Belair Line commuters ask when do we get ours.

I'd say it's more likely that the remaining lines will use hydrogen powered trains in future rather than electrifying the lines.

For Outer Harbor and Grange at the very least I hope the state gov just go for 25kv rather than isolating the line from the rest of the network and making it more difficult to use rolling stock universally.

As for Belair? Probably the best choice (battery or hydrogen) considering terrain and that third rail electrification wouldn't be considered I think.

cocoiadrop wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:17 pm

For Outer Harbor and Grange at the very least I hope the state gov just go for 25kv rather than isolating the line from the rest of the network and making it more difficult to use rolling stock universally.

As for Belair? Probably the best choice (battery or hydrogen) considering terrain and that third rail electrification wouldn't be considered I think.

I guess it would depend on costs. Trying hybrids is an obvious first step to see if it works. If it works, and it's cheaper, the case for full electrification of other lines is weak. The present non-electric trains are in good condition, and drivers are trained on them, plus there's a surplus due to the electrics taking over Gawler and Seaford. There are plenty of high priority transport projects needing funds: O-Bahn upgrade, tram extensions, fast rail to Mt Barker, Two Wells and Virginia and past Gawler.

Now, all that presupposes that hybrid operation can achieve close to full electric performance. I'll wait for the results of that. But if it works, my vote is for putting money into other PT projects rather than full electrification.

As a regular user of the OH line I'm personally fine with the thought that the line might not be fully electrified (especially given the closure time required to undertake the work on the Gawler and Seaford lines) but I'd be pretty annoyed if whatever the solution is involves trains still fuelled even in part by diesel.

Given that Ricardo's brief was for a feasibility study examining zero-emissions rail technology I assume that the diesel hybrid trial is purely for examining the basic concept of a hybrid train, as opposed to being genuinely considered as a solution in its own right? Or perhaps as a stopgap for the immediate future?