News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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claybro
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4171 Post by claybro » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:41 am

This all looks like positive stuff if it actually comes to fruition. A couple of things though. Better integration of rail with other modes of transport is more about the other modes.. than the rail itself. (It is easier to get buses to change to meet train running as they are more flexible). Also speeding up of services. We all agree that trains in Adelaide are painfully slow, with running stock designed for speeds up to 130 km/h... trundling along at 60-70/h. One wonders if this is a track/station placing issue, or the current operator. Maybe tighter scheduling is possible with higher speed, less frequent or alternate stopping patterns. It will be interesting to see what the new operator comes up with, and how much the existing system constrains them.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4172 Post by SBD » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:05 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:05 pm
kymbosa wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:36 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:48 pm
Hopefully a three-car electric set is enough to address capacity issues that arise in morning and evening peaks before and after Mawson Lakes, which is easily the most heavily patronised station on the line. Most passengers can get a seat before there, but after, it is not possible.
I always laugh when I see this; head to London in which if you travelled from the otter suburbs into the centre of town, which could take over 20mins, you’ll be lucky to get a seat.

At most you stand for 20mins, it’s a service that makes sure you get to town, it never says you’ll always get a seat.
London?! Even in Perth it is rare to get a seat on the train during peak. Once again, you can stand for 30 odd minutes on the train, or crawl along the exact same route on the freeway in your car for up to an hour, then pay exorbitant carparking at the city end.
The new trains are specified as 240 seated, up to 300 standing, so it is expected that half the passengers don’t get a seat.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4173 Post by ChillyPhilly » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:26 pm

SBD wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:05 pm
claybro wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:05 pm
kymbosa wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:36 pm


I always laugh when I see this; head to London in which if you travelled from the otter suburbs into the centre of town, which could take over 20mins, you’ll be lucky to get a seat.

At most you stand for 20mins, it’s a service that makes sure you get to town, it never says you’ll always get a seat.
London?! Even in Perth it is rare to get a seat on the train during peak. Once again, you can stand for 30 odd minutes on the train, or crawl along the exact same route on the freeway in your car for up to an hour, then pay exorbitant carparking at the city end.
The new trains are specified as 240 seated, up to 300 standing, so it is expected that half the passengers don’t get a seat.
I should clarify that it's not about 'getting a seat', but that - for whatever the reason - these services are unnecessarily packed after one station.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4174 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:46 pm

Am on a single car train to Outer Harbour - I knew they were running these on the Grange line but it's a first for me on the OH line. More Lib cuts I guess... 🙁

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4175 Post by Mr Messy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:43 pm

Yeah they run single cars at night on the Belair line too

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4176 Post by SBD » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:22 am

Llessur2002 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:46 pm
Am on a single car train to Outer Harbour - I knew they were running these on the Grange line but it's a first for me on the OH line. More Lib cuts I guess... 🙁
How full was it, and how long until the next one?I 'd rather catch frequent trains than large trains if it's choice.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4177 Post by ralmin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:28 pm

Rather they run one car every half hour than two cars every hour.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4178 Post by Spotto » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:02 pm

SBD wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:22 am
Llessur2002 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:46 pm
Am on a single car train to Outer Harbour - I knew they were running these on the Grange line but it's a first for me on the OH line. More Lib cuts I guess... 🙁
How full was it, and how long until the next one?I 'd rather catch frequent trains than large trains if it's choice.
Timetable hasn’t changed since the January revision, trains are still running every half hour on both lines past Woodville. The shared Woodville-to-City section varies between every 15 and 25 minutes

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4179 Post by NTRabbit » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:10 pm

claybro wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:41 am
This all looks like positive stuff if it actually comes to fruition. A couple of things though. Better integration of rail with other modes of transport is more about the other modes.. than the rail itself. (It is easier to get buses to change to meet train running as they are more flexible). Also speeding up of services. We all agree that trains in Adelaide are painfully slow, with running stock designed for speeds up to 130 km/h... trundling along at 60-70/h. One wonders if this is a track/station placing issue, or the current operator. Maybe tighter scheduling is possible with higher speed, less frequent or alternate stopping patterns. It will be interesting to see what the new operator comes up with, and how much the existing system constrains them.
In reality, what will happen is that the cost to the passenger goes up, the cost to the taxpayer goes up, and the service in both quantity and quality goes down.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4180 Post by Norman » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:22 am

There's an article on AdelaideNow about the bidders for the train contracts. Can someone copy and paste the article here please?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4181 Post by jimbly » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:08 am

From the 'Tiser
Europe’s largest rail operator is among three companies in the running to operate Adelaide’s train network.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll will today announce the consortia short-listed to take over metropolitan services.

Among them are the second wealthiest railway company in the world, a French-based company operating nine international metro networks and an Australian company operating light rail in Melbourne, the Gold Coast and Newcastle.

The consortia, each a partnership between international and Australian firms, will now submit a response to the State Government’s invitation to tender ahead of a decision on the preferred contractor in the second half of 2020.

The move will reignite debate about franchising or privatising the public transport network with Labor threatening to tear up any contracts if they are to win the next election.

Mr Knoll told The Advertiser that the government believes the state’s public transport system has room for improvement.

“What we are seeking to do is bring trains and tram in line with the same model that our buses have operated under for the last 20 years,” he said.

“Encouragingly we’ve seen some green shoots and in the last financial year we saw public transport patronage increase by over one million trips compared to the previous year.”

The consortia vying for the contract are:

ADELAIDE NEXT – German railway company Deutsche Bahn, Europe’s largest rail operator, and Australia’s largest private rail operator John Holland.

KEOLIS DOWNER – French company Keolis SA, currently operating nine metro networks, 23 tram networks and 15 regional train networks around the world and Downer

EDI that has over 100 years’ experience in rail and;

TRAIN CO – The Australian arm of the French-based Transdev Group – a multi-modal passenger transport operator in 19 countries, and CAF, a global railway equipment provider with a base in Sydney.

In November The Advertiser revealed Keolis Downer had won a $1.7 million tender to run an Uber-style bus trial in the Barossa Valley and Mount Barker.

At the time Opposition transport spokesman Tom Koutsantonis raised questions about why the contract did not go out to open tender.

In October The Advertiser revealed dozens of international and interstate companies had shown an interest in taking over Adelaide’s bus and tram services, including several, not part of today’s announcement, that had been embroiled in controversy.

In his boldest pre-election pledge to date, Mr Malinauskas, in October vowed to reverse the “privatisation of tram and train services” if Labor wins the next state election.

He also vowed to examine returning bus services to the public sector.

In April, the State Government announced it would put out tenders for operators to run bus and light-rail services in Adelaide, arguing SA was the only jurisdiction in the country that did not outsource the operation of its tram services.

It also pledged to put out a tender for train services.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4182 Post by Eurostar » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:49 pm

jimbly wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:08 am
From the 'Tiser
Europe’s largest rail operator is among three companies in the running to operate Adelaide’s train network.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll will today announce the consortia short-listed to take over metropolitan services.

Among them are the second wealthiest railway company in the world, a French-based company operating nine international metro networks and an Australian company operating light rail in Melbourne, the Gold Coast and Newcastle.

The consortia, each a partnership between international and Australian firms, will now submit a response to the State Government’s invitation to tender ahead of a decision on the preferred contractor in the second half of 2020.

The move will reignite debate about franchising or privatising the public transport network with Labor threatening to tear up any contracts if they are to win the next election.

Mr Knoll told The Advertiser that the government believes the state’s public transport system has room for improvement.

“What we are seeking to do is bring trains and tram in line with the same model that our buses have operated under for the last 20 years,” he said.

“Encouragingly we’ve seen some green shoots and in the last financial year we saw public transport patronage increase by over one million trips compared to the previous year.”

The consortia vying for the contract are:

ADELAIDE NEXT – German railway company Deutsche Bahn, Europe’s largest rail operator, and Australia’s largest private rail operator John Holland.

KEOLIS DOWNER – French company Keolis SA, currently operating nine metro networks, 23 tram networks and 15 regional train networks around the world and Downer

EDI that has over 100 years’ experience in rail and;

TRAIN CO – The Australian arm of the French-based Transdev Group – a multi-modal passenger transport operator in 19 countries, and CAF, a global railway equipment provider with a base in Sydney.

In November The Advertiser revealed Keolis Downer had won a $1.7 million tender to run an Uber-style bus trial in the Barossa Valley and Mount Barker.

At the time Opposition transport spokesman Tom Koutsantonis raised questions about why the contract did not go out to open tender.

In October The Advertiser revealed dozens of international and interstate companies had shown an interest in taking over Adelaide’s bus and tram services, including several, not part of today’s announcement, that had been embroiled in controversy.

In his boldest pre-election pledge to date, Mr Malinauskas, in October vowed to reverse the “privatisation of tram and train services” if Labor wins the next state election.

He also vowed to examine returning bus services to the public sector.

In April, the State Government announced it would put out tenders for operators to run bus and light-rail services in Adelaide, arguing SA was the only jurisdiction in the country that did not outsource the operation of its tram services.

It also pledged to put out a tender for train services.
Keolis Downer already operate buses in Adelaide. They also run many feeder services to train stations, under privatisation buses get a portion of revenue from ticket validations and ticket sales if I'm not mistaken if they got the contract to run the trains they'd get a portion of ticket validations and ticket sales so they could alter their bus routes to feed to their trains.

If they cut some 225X/Fs or 229X/Fs they could use those bus kilometres elsewhere to feed to their trains. One of those new routes good be say a peak hour bus route running between Parafield Station and Settlers Farm via Kings Road.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4183 Post by Norman » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:20 pm

If the privatisation brings genuine improvements and efficiencies, then it might be a good thing. I'm curious to see what their offers would be and what improvements they are proposing.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4184 Post by Brucetiki » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Norman wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:20 pm
If the privatisation brings genuine improvements and efficiencies, then it might be a good thing. I'm curious to see what their offers would be and what improvements they are proposing.
Hopefully an improvement in operations staff too.

The guys manning the ticket barriers at Salisbury are more of a hindeance than a help - one tried to refuse me entry to the platform on a football game day with a football ticket (then refused to ID themselves - didn't stop me lodging a complaint against him though).

Then there was the incompetent who was at the Park Tce railway crossing on Saturday when the boomgates were down. I'm actually surprised he didn't cause an accident with the manner in which he was handling the traffic.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#4185 Post by Joelmark » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:24 pm

Deutsche Bahn is the state rail operator of the Federal Republic of Germany. If they win the contract, what the Liberal Government is essentially telling you is that it's fine for any efficiency savings to go to the German state, instead of the state of South Australia. We've been through all this before back in July, but there's absolutely no evidence that any of the outsourced rail and tram networks work any better than state operated ones in Australia (Adelaide and Perth in particular have very high punctuality and satisfaction ratings), and any efficiency savings for the overseas operators are always made by increasing fares and cutting staff.

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