Sir Donald Bradman Drv / Marion Rd Upgrade

[Aidan]

Taking light rail down Henley Beach road takes advantage of the existing retail and hospitality that is well established there. HBR is already The Parade of the inner west, so let's build on that. People want to live close to areas with restaurants, pubs and shops not just a bunch of apartments on a tram route. SDBD has none of these (apart from the tiny Hilton Plaza and Hilton Hotel). Yes, we need to continue urban infill along the route and promote apartments up to 4-6 stories with grounfld floor retail and hospitality to take advantage and promote this urban core.

Using HBR would allow a seamless connection to the existing network at city west for better connection to the hospital, railway station and uni and will allow for a future east-west line along The Parade and HBR.

The existing H bus routes can be redirected to SDB, Grange Rds or Ashley St to provide much needed capacity and frequency on these trunk routes.

Why should future infrastructure go out of its way to cater to present development that's not even particularly high density? Is there any good reason why (with trams and supportive zoning) shops and restaurants wouldn't be built along SDBD?

Using SDBD, it's just 6km to Victoria Square. But if you want to go up West Terrace to North Terrace it's still shorter than via Airport Road and HBR.

The existing HBR bus routes go that way for a good reason: it's faster than other roads, and feeds directly into the main E-W bus corridor through the City.

[rev]

Why can't trams run down both HBR and SDBD? Other then this being Adelaide and the typical South Australian 'cant do' mentality standing in the way, why not in time?

[abc]

I think that falling down bridge needs to be rebuilt before even thinking of putting trams down it

[Westside]

Why should future infrastructure go out of its way to cater to present development that's not even particularly high density? Is there any good reason why (with trams and supportive zoning) shops and restaurants wouldn't be built along SDBD?

Using SDBD, it's just 6km to Victoria Square. But if you want to go up West Terrace to North Terrace it's still shorter than via Airport Road and HBR.

The existing HBR bus routes go that way for a good reason: it's faster than other roads, and feeds directly into the main E-W bus corridor through the City.

I'd hardly call Henley Beach Rd out of its way. But generally because you can't ask traders to pick up and move to another route because the government says so. We need to build infrastructure to where people want to go on an already proven route to provide more capacity, greater reliability and promote even greater investment along the corridor.

Yes, you could try and replicate that along SDBD but the work has already started on HBR, so let's build on that. It would be like suggesting we stop investing in The Parade and hope to build up Magill Rd instead. (Although i do agree with the proposal to build along The Parade then Magil further East past the retail core.)

As higher density is built up on SDBD, residents would be forced to drive to the entertainment along HBR until more is built on SDBD. But by that stage the HBR traders are already well established so would set the pattern of driving down there anyway. You build apartments near the entertainment precinct then those new residents get used to walking and catching public transport already well before any tram comes in.

Im just saying, you still have to build to what is already there and improve upon it. Either way, I agree with you, there needs to be far more high density investment in the inner west, I just think the sensible option is to build upon the investment and lifestyle that already exists on HBR.

[Aidan]

I think that falling down bridge needs to be rebuilt before even thinking of putting trams down it

Is there any actual structural problem with the bridge? Or is the problem just cosmetic?

And twenty years from now, when any problems with the bridge are sorted, do we want to be in a situation where the SDBD/Marion Rd intersection makes it difficult to install trams because we failed to think of putting trams in?

[Aidan]

Why should future infrastructure go out of its way to cater to present development that's not even particularly high density? Is there any good reason why (with trams and supportive zoning) shops and restaurants wouldn't be built along SDBD?

Using SDBD, it's just 6km to Victoria Square. But if you want to go up West Terrace to North Terrace it's still shorter than via Airport Road and HBR.

The existing HBR bus routes go that way for a good reason: it's faster than other roads, and feeds directly into the main E-W bus corridor through the City.

I'd hardly call Henley Beach Rd out of its way. But generally because you can't ask traders to pick up and move to another route because the government says so. We need to build infrastructure to where people want to go on an already proven route to provide more capacity, greater reliability and promote even greater investment along the corridor.

Yes, you could try and replicate that along SDBD but the work has already started on HBR, so let's build on that. It would be like suggesting we stop investing in The Parade and hope to build up Magill Rd instead. (Although i do agree with the proposal to build along The Parade then Magil further East past the retail core.)

As higher density is built up on SDBD, residents would be forced to drive to the entertainment along HBR until more is built on SDBD. But by that stage the HBR traders are already well established so would set the pattern of driving down there anyway. You build apartments near the entertainment precinct then those new residents get used to walking and catching public transport already well before any tram comes in.

Im just saying, you still have to build to what is already there and improve upon it. Either way, I agree with you, there needs to be far more high density investment in the inner west, I just think the sensible option is to build upon the investment and lifestyle that already exists on HBR.

I'm not suggesting traders pick up and move to another route; I'm suggesting more traders come. HBR would continue to develop (supported by frequent buses) and so would SDBD (supported by trams, and without buses along it). And it only takes about ten minutes to walk between the two, so getting to the other need not depend on driving.

[abc]

I think that falling down bridge needs to be rebuilt before even thinking of putting trams down it

Is there any actual structural problem with the bridge? Or is the problem just cosmetic?

And twenty years from now, when any problems with the bridge are sorted, do we want to be in a situation where the SDBD/Marion Rd intersection makes it difficult to install trams because we failed to think of putting trams in?

I'm not that kind of engineer, but just by looking at it there has to be some kind of structural problem that's causing sagging in several places

I'd like to hear what the government or the relevant city council has to say about it... not that I'd necessarily believe them, but I think this needs to be brought to the attention of someone with authority.

[rev]

I think that falling down bridge needs to be rebuilt before even thinking of putting trams down it

Is there any actual structural problem with the bridge? Or is the problem just cosmetic?

And twenty years from now, when any problems with the bridge are sorted, do we want to be in a situation where the SDBD/Marion Rd intersection makes it difficult to install trams because we failed to think of putting trams in?

The so called sagging was mentioned by someone a few weeks ago in some thread on the forum, can't remember who.
I pointed out that the bridge has been like that for well over a decade, in fact probably over 15 years and counting.
But then again there was that report a few years back I think prior to covid, there was an audit of bridges in SA..don't think they ever revealed the location of the 18 bridges that were rated poor.

[PD2/20]

The so called sagging was mentioned by someone a few weeks ago in some thread on the forum, can't remember who.
I pointed out that the bridge has been like that for well over a decade, in fact probably over 15 years and counting.
But then again there was that report a few years back I think prior to covid, there was an audit of bridges in SA..don't think they ever revealed the location of the 18 bridges that were rated poor.

See viewtopic.php?p=212053&sid=5541cd542b82 ... ed#p212053 and following in this thread. The bridge audit was in the media in 2017 when the South Rd tram cycleway overpass was remediated.

[rhino]

As others have pointed out, the current bridges were built in the mid 80's. The old bridges were to the south of the current ones and I think that anyone who remembers them will tell you they most definitely sagged, were badly dilapidated and were about to fall down.

Yes, I remember them exactly as you describe. Only one lane each way as well, and they weren't arranged in a very straight line!

[A-Town]

There's speculation that this upgrade could be scrapped as the federal government looks to cut infrastructure projects to control inflation. The other SA projects facing the axe are the Truro bypass and road upgrades around Hahndorf.

Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers warns of ‘difficult decisions’ for infrastructure spending
Half a billion dollars worth of infrastructure upgrades are under scrutiny as the Federal Treasurer warns “difficult decisions” need to be made.

Hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure developments could be on the line as the Federal Treasurer warns some projects will need to be cut back to control inflation.

On Sunday Treasurer Jim Chalmers said tough decisions would need to be made in the wake of the long awaited-awaited infrastructure review.

Appearing on ABC’s Insiders, Dr Chalmers said the government was heeding advice from the International Monetary Fund to scale back its record $30bn year of public spending.

“We’re going to need to make some difficult decisions about the infrastructure pipeline, which factors in those $33 billion of blowouts from projects announced by our predecessors,” the Treasurer said.

“The IMF has made an important point which is that we need to roll out our infrastructure investment in a way that gets us value for money but also in a more measured and co-ordinated way.”

Infrastructure Minister Catherine King is currently considering a wholesale review of the infrastructure grants.

A 90-day review of the infrastructure funding, which was a key Labor election promise, remains underway.

In South Australia, half a billion dollars worth of road upgrades are potentially under the axe.

The North South Corridor development was spared from the evaluation, but $202m Truro bypass proposal, $85m upgrade of Marion Road and Sir Bradman Drive and road upgrades around Hahndorf are in the firing line.

A State Government spokesman said there was no concern about the North South Corridor’s funding.
“Like other state and territory governments, we keenly await the outcome of the federal infrastructure review,” he said.

“We have no concern whatsoever that there will be any impact on the scope or timing of the River Torrens to Darlington project, with early and associated works including the resurfacing of South Rd already well underway.”

Opposition infrastructure spokesman Vincent Tarzia said slowing construction in South Australia would risk local economies and thousands of jobs.

“We need construction to thrive in our state – slowing it down will have disastrous consequences,” he said.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/south ... 691a28e40e

[[Shuz]]

Hmm, I can think of a very easy way to save $15bn in funding.

Scrap the N-S Motorway.

[Norman]

Hmm, I can think of a very easy way to save $15bn in funding.

Scrap the N-S Motorway.

Politically this would be suicide as they have gone too deep into the project to axe it now.

[rev]

Hmm, I can think of a very easy way to save $15bn in funding.

Scrap the N-S Motorway.

So they want to cut back on infrastructure? Infrastructure that's badly needed yesterday? But they wont cut back migration which will create an even worse situation.
We don't have enough housing. We don't have employment to sustain that growth. We can't keep up with infrastructure requirements.
Australia doesn't need hundreds of thousands of new residents every year.

This Labor government is a clown show.

[mattblack]

Hmm, I can think of a very easy way to save $15bn in funding.

Scrap the N-S Motorway.

So they want to cut back on infrastructure? Infrastructure that's badly needed yesterday? But they wont cut back migration which will create an even worse situation.
We don't have enough housing. We don't have employment to sustain that growth. We can't keep up with infrastructure requirements.
Australia doesn't need hundreds of thousands of new residents every year.

This Labor government is a clown show.

You do know that migation has been falling for a number of years don't you, actually, year on year since 2009 across both political persuasions from a high of 11.4% to now 5.1%

Chart and table of the Australia net migration rate from 1950 to 2023.

The current net migration rate for Australia in 2023 is 5.173 per 1000 population, a 4.54% decline from 2022.
The net migration rate for Australia in 2022 was 5.419 per 1000 population, a 4.34% decline from 2021.
The net migration rate for Australia in 2021 was 5.665 per 1000 population, a 4.16% decline from 2020.
The net migration rate for Australia in 2020 was 5.911 per 1000 population, a 4% decline from 2019.

Although still quite high by world standards

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/A ... rom%202019